New York Times Deficit Puzzle

[Andy9o8 2]

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While I agree with you I have to say you are wasting your breath
Business = Bad
Gov = Good

The life of a liberal

You do realize we're trying to have an adult discussion here?

Obviously you dont

"I know you are, but what am I?"
Hey, thanks for being on the job.

[rushmc 23]

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oh snap!

It is interesting that what Bolas has brought up and explained so well has been brought up before. But because the gov is the savior of liberalism its actions have to be defended

Gov regulation in part (the biggest part) caused this mess. Until that is recognized it will not be stopped from happening again.

billvos solutions have their place to but it is not really the answer

Fanny and Freddie are about to take billions more of taxpayer money for its bad choices yet it is being held up as an example

And for the point of it not being seen? Bush 43 called it in his first or second year. But there were a few Senator (like Boxer and Dodd) who stated the these two glorious institutions were solvent

Yet we didnt see this coming?

Give me a break

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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While I agree with you I have to say you are wasting your breath
Business = Bad
Gov = Good

The life of a liberal

You do realize we're trying to have an adult discussion here?

Obviously you dont

"I know you are, but what am I?"
Hey, thanks for being on the job.

When you feel the need to reply to me?

I have had a good day

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,998]

>Yet we didnt see this coming?

Some did, some didn't. I recall a certain thread from 2008, reproduced in part below. I'll let you decide who saw this coming, and who was saying things like "it's all Kallend's imagination" "Buffet is saying the worst is over" "the long term is up."


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Must be a Tough Day to be Crying the "R" word...

With all the literal psyching into a "recession"...which means there have been two-consecutive-quarters of contraction in the GDP...we haven't even had one yet.

Now, was the 1Q08 a roaring expansion? At 0.6%, certainly not. Consumer spending was up 1% and energy and food prices are clear issues that need to be monitored carefully.

Either way, it must be tough to be a liberal who's been crying "R" for a while...the doom and gloom is near...
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According to the economists at the National Bureau of Economic Research, a recession is defined as a "significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."
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Well there we have it folks.. Mr kallend has stated there is a ression and so it must be so. Why, cause he has appointed himself the officail arbiter of all of this, , ,,, I guess
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As if people WANT a recession.
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There are many that WANT everyone to THINK (at the very least) there is.
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But it appears that even Buffett is saying that the worst is over.
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The long term is there too. Look at just about any sector of commerce and the numbers are up over any long term scale.
======================

[rushmc 23]

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>Yet we didnt see this coming?

Some did, some didn't. I recall a certain thread from 2008, reproduced in part below. I'll let you decide who saw this coming, and who was saying things like "it's all Kallend's imagination" "Buffet is saying the worst is over" "the long term is up."


========================================
Must be a Tough Day to be Crying the "R" word...

With all the literal psyching into a "recession"...which means there have been two-consecutive-quarters of contraction in the GDP...we haven't even had one yet.

Now, was the 1Q08 a roaring expansion? At 0.6%, certainly not. Consumer spending was up 1% and energy and food prices are clear issues that need to be monitored carefully.

Either way, it must be tough to be a liberal who's been crying "R" for a while...the doom and gloom is near...
==========================================
According to the economists at the National Bureau of Economic Research, a recession is defined as a "significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."
====================================
Well there we have it folks.. Mr kallend has stated there is a ression and so it must be so. Why, cause he has appointed himself the officail arbiter of all of this, , ,,, I guess
==================================
As if people WANT a recession.
==========================
There are many that WANT everyone to THINK (at the very least) there is.
========================
But it appears that even Buffett is saying that the worst is over.
=====================
The long term is there too. Look at just about any sector of commerce and the numbers are up over any long term scale.
======================

Yes, but I was commenting to Fannie and Freddie

It seems that we can not get honest numbers or predictions from anyone in gov these days
Regardless of party

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

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>Agreed but gov't regulation and interference can make them
>bigger, especially if they take away the immediate financial risks.

Yes. They can also make them smaller by outlawing anti competitive practices and requiring financial transparency.

Not really as those are reactionary measures only.

If you outlaw one business practice a similar and most likely worse one will take it's place until that one is otlawed and the cycle starts again.

If you require financial transparaency, the financials will just become more complex until the complexity is regulated, then another method will be used.

It's a shell game and the gov't will always be 2-3 moves behind. I'm sure at this very moment something far more dangerous than CDS and derivatives is being thought up to counter all of the new regulations and restrictions.

The best move the gov't could make is stop trying to regulate and control by law and use monetary policy instead. If a behavior is deemed risky, don't ban it or support it. Just lessen it's allure by making it less profitable by not shouldering the risks and possibly putting a tax of some sort on it.

the reason they need to regulate by law is because they can no longer enforce most laws. thanks to the left leaning judicial system that makes it almost imposible to convict anyone in criminal court. they can't even convict a terrorist of murder for suppliing the means to blow up inocent people.

[billvon 2,998]

>It seems that we can not get honest numbers or predictions
>from anyone in gov these days

Or from the more vocal posters on this forum, apparently.

[rushmc 23]

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>It seems that we can not get honest numbers or predictions
>from anyone in gov these days

Or from the more vocal posters on this forum, apparently.

Ya?

And where do they get their numbers?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,998]

>the reason they need to regulate by law is because they can no
>longer enforce most laws.

Can you spot any logical errors in the statement you just made?

[billvon 2,998]

>And where do they get their numbers?

Well, since one of them was you, perhaps you could tell us where you got your numbers.

[rushmc 23]

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>And where do they get their numbers?

Well, since one of them was you, perhaps you could tell us where you got your numbers.

08? Hell
I dont remember yesterday well anymore

Point is, most here get the numbers (or at least they start from) one gov dept or another. (I know there are others but most start from the gov)

The debate comes when people try and tell eveyone else what those numbers mean

Right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

One of the signs of a recession is reduced spending and more money being held or saved, usually due to lack of consumer confidence. Which is also one of the causes.

It's sorta a chicken/egg scenario as ironically refusing to acknowledge a recession and continuing like normal (provided that "normal" level was sustainable) can avoid or get us out of one.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,452]

True dat. However, our current savings rate is low enough that even with the current recession, it has only risen to about one-half the good-times levels in the 60's-80's. That's probably not real healthy.

That little savings in general makes people less resistant to even the smallest fluctuations in the economy -- kind of how if everyone is tailgating the car in front, the smallest slow-down results in everyone slamming on their brakes, while if people aren't tailgating, all they have to do is take up the slack for a second and calmly re-establish their distance.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[marks2065 0]

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>the reason they need to regulate by law is because they can no
>longer enforce most laws.

Can you spot any logical errors in the statement you just made?

they regulate what a business can do because they cannot seem to convict those that actually have done wrong things.

[billvon 2,998]

>they regulate what a business can do because they cannot seem to
>convict those that actually have done wrong things.

I'll take that as a "no."

In that case, the reason your car mechanic needs to change your brake pads is that he can no longer change brake pads.