Terrorist aquitted of 284 of 285 charges.

[jakee 1,558]

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He was not captured by U.S. law enforcement personnel. For a man to be properly convicted in a U.S. court, he really needs to be caught by U.S. law enforcement. This way he is getting all the pre-requisites required by the U.S. court system.

Oh really? So what about everyone else arrested outside the US and extradited back? Not terrorists, but normal criminals who have fled the country and been arrested elsewhere?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[futuredivot 0]

Can you even draw a line that connects an enemy combatant to some ass running a ponzi scheme?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[jakee 1,558]

Come again?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[nigel99 560]

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>Great, now what is going to happen to KSM?

Hopefully he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

In all seriousness how much of a threat is a "known" terrorist. It is pretty likely that he will be monitored closely for the rest of his life. Any attempt for him to mingle with potential terrorists and plan operations is going to be very high risk. If he is stupid enough to rejoin the ranks he is handing intelligence over cheaply.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[billvon 3,063]

>Watever happened to the days when real men lined up shoulder to
>shoulder and just blasted eachother till the other side was dead?

I know, right? Life is becoming less like a good first-person-shooter all the time. It's depressing is what it is.

[firemedic 7]

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More like a shining example of why torture "coercive interrogations" should never be used.

Funny how the same people that spout off about defending the constitution will gladly throw it away if they hear the word terrorist.

Honestly, would you be happy about that decision if it were one of you family memers who was blown to bits in one of the bombings

Of course not, but my anger would be directed towards the people that caused the information to be thrown out, by using torture.

Since they consider themselves soldiers at war with us let the military conduct the trials.

[Kennedy 0]

That's all right. I'm waiting for the one conviction to be overturned on appeal. Then things will really get interesting.

Honest question:
How can you be convicted of conspiracy to damage US govt property under US law when you were never in a place to be under US jurisdiction while conspiring? Does the US have jurisdiction to enforce criminal US Code in other countries when folks in those countries plot against the US?

Not to get into left vs right, but this does seem to be an external threat. We don't go out and put enemy combatants on trial for damaging govt property when they blow things up, right?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[DanG 1]

We were not at war when this guy's crimes were committed. How else, besides the judicial system, are we supposed to deal with people who commit crimes against Americans during peacetime? I hope no one thinks that having a permanent military tribunal where "enemies of the state" are tried separate from other criminals is a good idea. Especially when the definition of an enemy combatant is unclear.

- Dan G

[firemedic 7]

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That's all right. I'm waiting for the one conviction to be overturned on appeal. Then things will really get interesting.

Honest question:
How can you be convicted of conspiracy to damage US govt property under US law when you were never in a place to be under US jurisdiction while conspiring? Does the US have jurisdiction to enforce criminal US Code in other countries when folks in those countries plot against the US?

Not to get into left vs right, but this does seem to be an external threat. We don't go out and put enemy combatants on trial for damaging govt property when they blow things up, right?

The only thing I can think of is when bombed the US Embassy, he may have stepped across the US boundry to do it. If so, that would hve legally put him on US soil. It also may be the government's justification for holding the trials in civilian court.

[jgoose71 0]

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He was not captured by U.S. law enforcement personnel. For a man to be properly convicted in a U.S. court, he really needs to be caught by U.S. law enforcement. This way he is getting all the pre-requisites required by the U.S. court system.

Oh really? So what about everyone else arrested outside the US and extradited back? Not terrorists, but normal criminals who have fled the country and been arrested elsewhere?

Normal criminals get turned over to the proper authorities. He was turned over to the CIA. Nice try though.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

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With a 20 year sentence he could be eligible for parole in 10 for good behavior. Not bad for killing 224 people, including 12 Americans.

are americans "worth" more than others ?

No, but in an American court system we can try them for killing Americans.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

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That's all right. I'm waiting for the one conviction to be overturned on appeal. Then things will really get interesting.

Honest question:
How can you be convicted of conspiracy to damage US govt property under US law when you were never in a place to be under US jurisdiction while conspiring? Does the US have jurisdiction to enforce criminal US Code in other countries when folks in those countries plot against the US?

Not to get into left vs right, but this does seem to be an external threat. We don't go out and put enemy combatants on trial for damaging govt property when they blow things up, right?

The only thing I can think of is when bombed the US Embassy, he may have stepped across the US boundry to do it. If so, that would hve legally put him on US soil. It also may be the government's justification for holding the trials in civilian court.

You are correct in that US embassies are sovereign US territories. To attack one is an act of war. This is another reason why he should be tried by a military tribunal.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Casurf1978 0]

That's pretty much the gist of why the testimony of the 'giant witness' was excluded. Are the rules of evidence and witnesses that different between a civilian and military court, especially with regards to testimony obtained through coercion or torture.

[jgoose71 0]

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>Great, now what is going to happen to KSM?

Hopefully he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Are you sure about that? Most of the testimony against him may be thrown out.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 3,063]

>Most of the testimony against him may be thrown out.

Most of it WAS thrown out; he was still convicted.

[Andy9o8 2]

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There are 2 camps of those arguing in this thread: those thinking with their cerebrums, and those thinking with their adrenal glands. The Cerebrums' arguments have said it just fine. At this hour of the evening, I've got too much issue exhaustion from these types of threads repeating themselves to have the patience to expound further.

...maybe just a bit more, to help it sink in (since for some, it obviously has not):

From the federal judge's written opinion:

"The court has not reached this conclusion lightly. It is acutely aware of the perilous nature of the world we live in. But the constitution is the rock upon which our nation rests. We must follow it not only when it is convenient, but when fear and danger beckon in a different direction."

[jgoose71 0]

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>Most of the testimony against him may be thrown out.

Most of it WAS thrown out; he was still convicted.

I was talking about KSM. But yes, most of the testimony was thrown out in this case, and there is now the possibility that he will be released in 10 years on good behavior, provided that his current 1 charge that he was convicted of doesn't get over turned in appeals.

It's like being pronounced guilty, but being sentenced to time served. Please send your moral outrage to the next group of people that he kills.

And what is going to happen to KSM? He provided a lot of evidence while tied to a water board. Do you think he should go free because of it?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

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There are 2 camps of those arguing in this thread: those thinking with their cerebrums, and those thinking with their adrenal glands. The Cerebrums' arguments have said it just fine. At this hour of the evening, I've got too much issue exhaustion from these types of threads repeating themselves to have the patience to expound further.

...maybe just a bit more, to help it sink in (since for some, it obviously has not):

From the federal judge's written opinion:

"The court has not reached this conclusion lightly. It is acutely aware of the perilous nature of the world we live in. But the constitution is the rock upon which our nation rests. We must follow it not only when it is convenient, but when fear and danger beckon in a different direction."

Not arguing that. As I have said before, bombing an embassy is an act of war and he was not turned over to regular law enforcement personnel. The constitution still applies in military tribunals. I fail to see the problem.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[ridestrong 1]

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I just wonder how happy you, and all those that defend this decision, will be when the guy gets out and blows up some more people.

Wow - just wow - So would you like to see sentences based upon Possible Future Acts too? --

Ptsss... of course not. Besides we all know he will be turned into a great law abiding citizen and probably LOVE America if/when he is released from one of our stellar rehab systems.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and he'll receive some good old 'prison justice'.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[billvon 3,063]

>and there is now the possibility that he will be released in 10 years on
>good behavior, provided that his current 1 charge that he was convicted of
>doesn't get over turned in appeals.

Yes. There is also the possibility that he will escape, or that Joe the Plumber will be the next terrorist that cooperates in a plot to kill Americans.

>Please send your moral outrage to the next group of people that he kills.

And you might want to work on controlling your fears; fear alone is insufficient reason to abandon our Constitution. People often use rationales just like yours to justify things like banning guns and outlawing marriages. I think Ben Franklin said it best - he who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither.

>And what is going to happen to KSM?

We shall see; our legal system is currently working on that.

>Do you think he should go free because of it?

Nope. If he does, the blame will rest squarely on the shoulders of the sadists that tortured him.

[jakee 1,558]

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He was not captured by U.S. law enforcement personnel. For a man to be properly convicted in a U.S. court, he really needs to be caught by U.S. law enforcement. This way he is getting all the pre-requisites required by the U.S. court system.

Oh really? So what about everyone else arrested outside the US and extradited back? Not terrorists, but normal criminals who have fled the country and been arrested elsewhere?

Normal criminals get turned over to the proper authorities. He was turned over to the CIA. Nice try though.

So when you said 'caught' you didn't mean 'caught', and neither did 'capture' mean 'capture'. Bad try.

So what did you mean? Why does being turned over to law enforcement count and being turned over to the CIA not count?

You mentioned being mirandized - you realise that reading the miranda doesn't actually confer those rights, it's simply a notification of them, yes?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Darius11 12]

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Simple questions -

From some one who didnt even know what the trial was about. I'll pass.

So - in otherwords you lack the courage to answer.

I love your reaction man.

HOW DARE Remmy bring up the facts.

He must hate puppies and eat children.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[popsjumper 2]

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I just wonder how happy you, and all those that defend this decision, will be when the guy gets out and blows up some more people.

Wow - just wow - So would you like to see sentences based upon Possible Future Acts too? --

We already have that in the U.S.A.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Amazon 7]

SO

Which of you great patriots is going to volunteer to go hand out some good old prison justice.

I am wondering which of you would like to be THE ONE standing there in front of the guy... slowly sliding your knife up and to his left under his solar plexis right into his heart with that little twist, to be looking into his eyes while he exhales his last breath into your face while feeling his warm blood flowing over your hand as his life drains away from him.

[futuredivot 0]

That whole "going to prison" thing that would have to happen first would be kinda a bummer.
That being said-If I believe someone has earned the sentence of death, I don't have a moral problem being the one to throw the switch, pull the trigger, yank the lever, or push the plunger. I'm not understanding your fit of orgasmic prose but...to each their own.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour