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mirage62

Do the "rich" really PAY this much?

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An older article but shows this isn't a new thing Buffet is saying:

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Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

Two additional points that haven't been mentioned.

* If charities are funded directly, perhaps the government can spend less on social programs. Additionally money given directly to a charity is far more cost effective than that same amount budgeted to a government program.

* Sure Buffet could willingly pay more taxes or give to the gov't directly, but that's not his point or a solution. His point is a system that allows him to do what he does needs to be fixed for all, and not rely on people willingly giving more.

Another way we could raise money is a voluntary federal tax like most states have, the lottery. ;)
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.



So kill all Employment taxes and raise the tax money all on use and sales.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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For all filers with taxable income, 2008:

200k and up - 4% of returns, 36% of taxable income, and 49% of income tax.

500k and up - 0.8% of returns, 22% of taxable income, and 32% of income tax.



It's interesting to note your own reaction to reading that. The first thing I did was think "so... 3.2% of returns were between 200K and 500K and paid 17% of the income tax." Statistics in that kinda range are a lot more interesting to me when discussing tax policy than either Warren Buffet or people sleeping on steam grates. There's a large group of people that pay little or no taxes and can vote in numbers and there's a small group of people with gobs of wealth that can get buddy-buddy with politicians...

...clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.



His statement was about the problem of having about half the population not pay taxes, therefore having little regret about how the money (and the deficit) is spent.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.



His statement was about the problem of having about half the population not pay taxes, therefore having little regret about how the money (and the deficit) is spent.



Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Reply]He has a Falcon 50 12 seater jet


Awesome that he is employing those people who provide the materials for the bird, manufacture the bird, maintain the bird and fly the bird and all those who support them. He could have just purchased art from a dead guy but he is keeping people employed.

Blah blah ...



Trickle Down is SO 1980s.

Didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The rich are getting richer, the middle classes are getting poorer, and the nation is going broke.
www.dailyfinance.com/story/are-the-rich-getting-richer-the-data-says-yes/19356546/
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.



hey John - everybody is over here...income tax

your point is valid in terms of contribution by individuals

your point is useless in terms of how "the poor" think about ownership of the process and 'concern over how the government spends'. The debate is over wealth, not a few cents added to a cup of coffee.

two basic issues in assumptions here:

1 - it's a spending issue vs a taxing issue
2 - the majority of 'rich' spend/save/invest their money vs the majority of 'rich' keep the money in mason jars buried in the back yard

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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[Reply]He has a Falcon 50 12 seater jet


Awesome that he is employing those people who provide the materials for the bird, manufacture the bird, maintain the bird and fly the bird and all those who support them. He could have just purchased art from a dead guy but he is keeping people employed.

Blah blah ...



Trickle Down is SO 1980s.

Didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The rich are getting richer, the middle classes are getting poorer, and the nation is going broke.
www.dailyfinance.com/story/are-the-rich-getting-richer-the-data-says-yes/19356546/



apparently your acquaintance whom you despise does seem to spend his money and it does create jobs - what is your alternative - take that money, fire the people, and then have the government just give it to those people as welfare? That's certainly more efficient I guess - no nasty airplane jobs, it keeps those guys off of the roads too - less traffic is good.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.



His statement was about the problem of having about half the population not pay taxes, therefore having little regret about how the money (and the deficit) is spent.



Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.



actually, it is you that needs to check your facts. No one pays a national sales tax.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.



His statement was about the problem of having about half the population not pay taxes, therefore having little regret about how the money (and the deficit) is spent.



Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.



actually, it is you that needs to check your facts. No one pays a national sales tax.



Gas is federally taxed
Cigarrettes are federally taxed
Liquor is federally taxed

Healthcare is federally taxed - ALREADY - but that is a different issue.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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[Reply]He has a Falcon 50 12 seater jet


Awesome that he is employing those people who provide the materials for the bird, manufacture the bird, maintain the bird and fly the bird and all those who support them. He could have just purchased art from a dead guy but he is keeping people employed.

Blah blah ...


Trickle Down is SO 1980s.

Didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The rich are getting richer, the middle classes are getting poorer, and the nation is going broke.
www.dailyfinance.com/story/are-the-rich-getting-richer-the-data-says-yes/19356546/

Here's a better article for your point. ;)
http://www.theonion.com/articles/rich-guy-feeling-left-out-of-recession,17181/
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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If everyone payed taxes then all would vote to take power away from the money hungry power bastards that are our elected officials



I'm sure the homeless living on steam grates under the viaducts in Chicago would soon pay off the deficit if they only paid taxes.

OTOH, it could be that your statement is even more ridiculous than is usual for you.


His statement was about the problem of having about half the population not pay taxes, therefore having little regret about how the money (and the deficit) is spent.


Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.


actually, it is you that needs to check your facts. No one pays a national sales tax.


So states and counties don't have sales taxes? They sure do around here:P:P:P:P:P
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Half the population pays no sales tax? I think you need to check your facts.



hey John - everybody is over here...income tax



Taking such a narrow view is unhelpful, Taxes are taxes. His statement was just plain wrong.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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So states and counties don't have sales taxes? They sure do around here:P:P:P:P:P



Backpedaling doesn't change the topic about deficits in DC. And in fact, many states do not have sales taxes.

The sin taxes (alcohol, tobacco) plus the fixed fuel tax has some more merit, though in concept the money captured by these are used within their system (roads, health services), not general spending.

so would you, for once, like to talk about the initial thesis? That there a problems with expecting half the population to give a shit about the deficit when they contribute none of their own dollars to the system?

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So states and counties don't have sales taxes? They sure do around here:P:P:P:P:P



Backpedaling doesn't change the topic about deficits in DC. And in fact, many states do not have sales taxes.

The sin taxes (alcohol, tobacco) plus the fixed fuel tax has some more merit, though in concept the money captured by these are used within their system (roads, health services), not general spending.

so would you, for once, like to talk about the initial thesis? That there a problems with expecting half the population to give a shit about the deficit when they contribute none of their own dollars to the system?


Those monies from the sin taxes are used just as the Social Security monies are used. Wherever the idiots we elect want them to be used.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Taking such a narrow view is unhelpful, Taxes are taxes. His statement was just plain wrong.



It absolutely is when you are talking about the citizenry having an apparent and open concept of financial ownership of the process. Income taxes are directly associated with government spending in people's minds. sales taxes are just part of the cost of that thing you bought.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Those monies from the sin taxes are used just as the Social Security monies are used. Wherever the idiots we elect want them to be used.



gas taxes are spent on highway construction. This is not a money maker for the feds - when you add in all the costs of our transport infrastructure, gas taxes are only a portion. You're paying to play on the roads. And not very much - we're talking about 18.4 cents a gallon - about $60 for me in a year.

the newer smoking taxes are cloudier, generally directed at health and children's programs. For smokers, this is a substantial and ever increasing tax. But it has little to do with the deficit - they're seen as the wallet for people's pet projects. (when they stop smoking, then it becomes a new deficit addition)

No idea where alcohol money goes - bet the ATF spends much more than it takes in, however.

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So states and counties don't have sales taxes? They sure do around here:P:P:P:P:P



Backpedaling doesn't change the topic about deficits in DC. And in fact, many states do not have sales taxes.

The sin taxes (alcohol, tobacco) plus the fixed fuel tax has some more merit, though in concept the money captured by these are used within their system (roads, health services), not general spending.

so would you, for once, like to talk about the initial thesis? That there a problems with expecting half the population to give a shit about the deficit when they contribute none of their own dollars to the system?


Anyone who pays sales tax, telecommunication tax, gas tax, etc. contributes $$ to the system, and that is far more than half the population. Until you get your facts straight your thesis is unworthy of discussion.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Kallend is a good guy, he's just smart enough to fuck with people here without (generally) getting ban

OTOH

He is one of these progressive thinkers that really believes that the "rich" should pay a lot more.......

just as long as the "rich" are making $2.00 a year more than he is. :P We are a like that way.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

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Kallend is a good guy, he's just smart enough to fuck with people here without (generally) getting ban

OTOH

He is one of these progressive thinkers that really believes that the "rich" should pay a lot more.......

just as long as the "rich" are making $2.00 a year more than he is. :P We are a like that way.



I'm spending Christmas Eve with a guy who probably makes more than everyone on this forum combined. He makes you and I look like paupers. I DO know what the truly rich are like. If his tax rate went up to 2001 levels I doubt he'd even notice.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[Reply]He has a Falcon 50 12 seater jet


Awesome that he is employing those people who provide the materials for the bird, manufacture the bird, maintain the bird and fly the bird and all those who support them. He could have just purchased art from a dead guy but he is keeping people employed.

Blah blah ...


Trickle Down is SO 1980s.

Didn't work then and it doesn't work now. The rich are getting richer, the middle classes are getting poorer, and the nation is going broke.
www.dailyfinance.com/story/are-the-rich-getting-richer-the-data-says-yes/19356546/


Here's a better article for your point. ;)
http://www.theonion.com/articles/rich-guy-feeling-left-out-of-recession,17181/

As usual, there is a lot of truth behind the Onion's satire.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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and there he cuts and runs again, pretending he's not been discussing it all day.



Can't dispute the facts can you? It is simply untrue that half the population pays no tax.



Tell it to the IRS - they're the ones with the documentation saying that roughly 50% of the country pays no INCOME tax.

That *is* the topic under discussion, after all, not your red herring about sales tax.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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