virgin-burner 1 #1 December 17, 2010 ?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #2 December 17, 2010 Quote? I assume you mean for hunting deer? Shotguns are much safer. Regular slugs are in the dirt @<200yds. Sabot rounds don't go much farther. A .223 will ricochet off a branch & go who knows where. It's a high velocity round w/a small projectile. Why are you limiting your choices? There are many great calibers around. Is there limited availability in Switzerland? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #3 December 18, 2010 QuoteQuote? I assume you mean for hunting deer? Shotguns are much safer. Regular slugs are in the dirt @<200yds. Sabot rounds don't go much farther. A .223 will ricochet off a branch & go who knows where. It's a high velocity round w/a small projectile. Why are you limiting your choices? There are many great calibers around. Is there limited availability in Switzerland? that or what's avaiilable for "big game"..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #4 December 18, 2010 What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it!Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 December 18, 2010 QuoteWhat is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #6 December 18, 2010 Quotegodfrog: What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! Correct answer! Quotevirgin-burner: so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? 12-gauge, if it gets there. If you're shooting at something beyond 150 yards, you'll need the .223. If you use .223, be sure to use hunting bullets (which expand), and not target bullets (which don't expand). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #7 December 18, 2010 Where is the option: "I drink too much and shouldn't own a gun" Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #8 December 18, 2010 Quote Where is the option: "I drink too much and shouldn't own a gun" i own a 12-gauge AND a .223 assault-rifle!.. so fuck you! just aint sure what's better for "home-protection", eg. what should i keep under my pillow!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #9 December 18, 2010 Quote what's safer!? Depends which end of it you're on. I'd go with the shotgun though. More uses for both hunting AND home protection.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #10 December 18, 2010 Quote Where is the option: "I drink too much and shouldn't own a gun" HEY!!!I resemble that remark. And for the record I own a shitload of guns.BTW, why hasn't this hit SC yet?Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #11 December 18, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhat is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem even if you don't miss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #12 December 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem if you don't miss. Wall studs and toilets are hardly innocent, but thats only if you're lucky.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #13 December 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem if you don't miss. Wall studs and toilets are hardly innocent, but thats only if you're lucky. so, the shotgun is kinda better suited for low-range, high penetration-uses!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 December 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem if you don't miss. Wall studs and toilets are hardly innocent, but thats only if you're lucky. so, the shotgun is kinda better suited for low-range, high penetration-uses!? and it hasnt hit SC yet coz it's been my b-day when i posted, so i can do anything i've wanted to post, anywhere! the mods must really like me! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #15 December 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem if you don't miss. Wall studs and toilets are hardly innocent, but thats only if you're lucky. so, the shotgun is kinda better suited for low-range, high penetration-uses!? Yes. It has a variety of different ammo choices. Anything from bird-shot to double 00 buck to slugs (good out to about 75 yds. You can choose the appropriate ammo for the application in which you choose to use it.ETA- Plus, staring down the barrel of a 12gu isn't something anyone will argue with. See PhotoMuff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 December 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote What is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem if you don't miss. Wall studs and toilets are hardly innocent, but thats only if you're lucky. so, the shotgun is kinda better suited for low-range, high penetration-uses!? Yes. It has a variety of different ammo choices. Anything from bird-shot to double 00 buck to slugs (good out to about 75 yds. You can choose the appropriate ammo for the application in which you choose to use it. i just want to fuck up whatsever in the vincinity of the gun.. so the 00-buck-shot would be a good choice!? i got that one already, wasnt sure if the (much) faster 223. rem would be even better... i should of known, weightxitself, would have more impact than speedxitelf.. or something.. yea, this should have moved to SC FUCKING LONG TIME AGO! but hey, it's my BIRTHday!!! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 December 18, 2010 6.5Grendel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #18 December 18, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is utmost in gun safety no matter the caliber or guage is the person handling it! so, what causes more damage, a 12-gauge buck-shot ro a 223. remington!? So, you want something for home defense. You should go w/a boomstick. You can load it lightly if you've neighbors close by. A .223 will go through several walls (or 4,000+yds) until it hits someone innocent. Over-penetration will still be a problem even if you don't miss. Overpenetration with .223rem is a fallacy, with the proper ammo it actually penetrates less than a 12gauge with #4 buckshot. 9mm penetrates more. Read the studies or experiment for yourself Choose a lightly constructed bullet like a ballistic tip that has no bonded core. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #19 December 18, 2010 Quote got that one already, wasnt sure if the (much) faster 223. rem would be even better... "better" is a subjective term. If all you want to do is "fuck up whatsever in the vicinity" then a 12 gu isnt a bad choice (I use mine for home protection... well I actually have a GLOCK .40 nearby that I would use to fight my way to the shotgun). If you do want to buy a 12gu I would reccomend the Remmington 870 with the extended tube and #8 shot. They can be had for pretty cheap here in the US ($375 I paid for mine), and they are prooven and reliable. BTW, Happy B-Day fucker!!! I'm here drinkin with youMuff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #20 December 18, 2010 so, what wiill have more "impact"!? .223 rem. or the 12-gauge, fried from a remington 500 or a sig-550 respecitvely!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #21 December 18, 2010 Quoteso, what wiill have more "impact"!? .223 rem. or the 12-gauge, fried from a remington 500 or a sig-550 respecitvely!? If I'm understanding you correctly, the 12gu will. The problem with the .223 (thats what we use in the military here in the US) is that the round goes straight through the target imparting only a small ammt of its energy. If you want to put someone on the floor then the 12gu with a light load (such as #8 shot) is the ticket.Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #22 December 18, 2010 #8 is for little birds, if a sparrow breaks in use that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #23 December 18, 2010 But what would I know after a lifetime of shooting, ballistics, weapons, military and a bunch of other crap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #24 December 18, 2010 Quote i own a 12-gauge AND a .223 assault-rifle!.. so fuck you! just aint sure what's better for "home-protection", eg. what should i keep under my pillow! In our state, Washington, it's illegal to hunt big game with any caliber less than .240, so the .223 won't cut it. There's a reason why it's nicknamed "the Poodle Shooter."Get some sabot or slug rounds for your 12 ga. That ought to do the trick. If you swing by my house, I can let you borrow one of my .30'06's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #25 December 18, 2010 Quote #8 is for little birds, if a sparrow breaks in use that At household distances (10-20 feet), a 12 ga. birdshot round is devastating, but doesn't travel as far downrange or penetrate as much as larger pellets. I have no qualms about that round for self defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
