turtlespeed 226 #26 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou can't have incriminating hypothetical conversations with your liscense plate. about nanothermite, haliburton, and reverse vampires - all the time Seriously - !) Dude - that guy pissed me off 2) Yeah - lets take him out 1) oooh- I got a 9 that will do the job nicely 2) we'll take him down at 7 1) don't miss 2) bring that fattie of yours too - i want to have some fun. Cops look at that like conspiracy to commit murder and possession Real story: 1) His father made him do his homework right after school 2) It's Dads birthday, we should take him to McDonalds 1) I have 9 dollars to purchase the meal 2) Plan to all meet at 7th street 1) Don't be late 2) Bring your overweight cousin - I like her WAY different scenario now, eh?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #27 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou can't have incriminating hypothetical conversations with your liscense plate. about nanothermite, haliburton, and reverse vampires - all the time Seriously - !) Dude - that guy pissed me off 2) Yeah - lets take him out 1) oooh- I got a 9 that will do the job nicely 2) we'll take him down at 7 1) don't miss 2) bring that fattie of yours too - i want to have some fun. Cops look at that like conspiracy to commit murder and possession Real story: 1) His father made him do his homework right after school 2) It's Dads birthday, we should take him to McDonalds 1) I have 9 dollars to purchase the meal 2) Plan to all meet at 7th street 1) Don't be late 2) Bring your overweight cousin - I like her WAY different scenario now, eh? Is it a Halal McDonalds? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #28 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat the fuck do you think the pat down/frisk is FOR???? Police will ask for permission to pat you down. They do it for their safety. They do have to ask your permission though. They will make it sound like a statement but they are supposed to get permission. You can refuse as long as you are not under arrest.It is a simple "pat down" on the outside of your clothes. They can not go into your pockets or under your clothes. A search is when they take shit out of your pockets. Reach under your clothes. Touch your genitals...all the stuff that the TSA is doing. frisk = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisking search = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure QuoteFrisking (also called a patdown or pat down) is a search of a person's outer clothing wherein a person runs his or her hands along the outer garments to detect any concealed weapons or contraband. What part f that is giving you comprehension difficulties?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #29 January 6, 2011 Really man? You don't see the difference between a pat down and a search? QuoteWhat part f that is giving you comprehension difficulties? If you want to start being an ass...I would say you are the one that does not comprehend. Read both descriptions then talk shit.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #30 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou can't have incriminating hypothetical conversations with your liscense plate. about nanothermite, haliburton, and reverse vampires - all the time Seriously - !) Dude - that guy pissed me off 2) Yeah - lets take him out 1) oooh- I got a 9 that will do the job nicely 2) we'll take him down at 7 1) don't miss 2) bring that fattie of yours too - i want to have some fun. Cops look at that like conspiracy to commit murder and possession Real story: 1) His father made him do his homework right after school 2) It's Dads birthday, we should take him to McDonalds 1) I have 9 dollars to purchase the meal 2) Plan to all meet at 7th street 1) Don't be late 2) Bring your overweight cousin - I like her WAY different scenario now, eh? Is it a Halal McDonalds? . Wrong thread Mr. 3I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #31 January 6, 2011 Quote Wrong thread Mr. 3 Au contraire, mon frère They all merge together sooner or later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #32 January 6, 2011 Quote If you want to start being an ass...I would say you are the one that does not comprehend. Read both descriptions then talk shit. He's still trying to reconcile his support for criminal suspects' rights with his disdain for air travelers' rights. Could be a long wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #33 January 6, 2011 His not being able to understand the difference is what our Govt. counts on these days. I bet 99% of Americans do not know the difference between a pat down and a search.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #34 January 6, 2011 QuoteReally man? You don't see the difference between a pat down and a search? QuoteWhat part f that is giving you comprehension difficulties? If you want to start being an ass...I would say you are the one that does not comprehend. Read both descriptions then talk shit. I read both descriptions. Once again, what part of those definitions don't you understand? The definitions you posted links to actually back up my argument against you.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #35 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuote If you want to start being an ass...I would say you are the one that does not comprehend. Read both descriptions then talk shit. He's still trying to reconcile his support for criminal suspects' rights with his disdain for air travelers' rights. Could be a long wait. Show me where you see any disdain I have for air travelers rights.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #36 January 6, 2011 Quote His not being able to understand the difference is what our Govt. counts on these days. I bet 99% of Americans do not know the difference between a pat down and a search. With you leading the pack. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #37 January 6, 2011 No it does not. You are the one with the problem comprehending. But thats ok. The U.S. Govt thanks you for not being able to tell the difference between the two. Go ask a cop or a lawyer. Maybe they can explain it to you in little words. Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 January 6, 2011 QuoteHis not being able to understand the difference is what our Govt. counts on these days. I bet 99% of Americans do not know the difference between a pat down and a search. Do you include Chief Justice Warren in that? From Terry: "The sole justification of the search ... is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer." (392 U.S. 1, at 29)" I understand your point, but saying it's not a search because it's called a frisk or a patdown is stretching the point - the purpose is still to discover a possible weapon.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #39 January 6, 2011 QuoteI understand your point, but saying it's not a search because it's called a frisk or a patdown is stretching the point - the purpose is still to discover a possible weapon. The point is, there is a legal difference between a pat down and actually searching someone. They may be similar... but they are different. In a pat down, it is only on the outside of your clothes. They can only seize what is "immediately identifiable". If they feel a gun or knife your fucked. If they feel a pack of smokes in my pocket, they can not take it out and look inside the pack. A true search is what the TSA is doing. Under the clothes, going through your personal belongings. Touching peoples junk. For that according to the constitution...they need a search warrant...or you have already been placed under arrest.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteI understand your point, but saying it's not a search because it's called a frisk or a patdown is stretching the point - the purpose is still to discover a possible weapon. The point is, there is a legal difference between a pat down and actually searching someone. They may be similar... but they are different. In a pat down, it is only on the outside of your clothes. They can only seize what is "immediately identifiable". If they feel a gun or knife your fucked. If they feel a pack of smokes in my pocket, they can not take it out and look inside the pack. A true search is what the TSA is doing. Under the clothes, going through your personal belongings. Touching peoples junk. For that according to the constitution...they need a search warrant...or you have already been placed under arrest. Really? You've never checked a perp's collar or beltline during a Terry stop? Never felt inside the top of a pair of boots to see if a knife is clipped in there? Never asked a stop "mind if I take a look around your vehicle?"Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #41 January 6, 2011 >Now that person's cell phone will be gone through in an attempt to find >whatever possible additional crimes that person may have committed. It's potentially worse than that. As mobility applications increase in power, and cloud computing begins to dominate, and more and more people become involved in online social networks - the data available from that cellphone when connected to the net is getting very large indeed. If a police officer can use the phone to determine what a person has texted, depending on what's loaded and what permissions are set on the phone he can also visit bank accounts, Facebook pages, email accounts and GPS files (many phones keep track of previous navigation files in map applications.) Sure, you can encrypt stuff, but cellphone systems nowadays have a feature called "lawful intercept" where a network has to make any call available to law enforcement upon request. Currently that requires a warrant, but the precedent is set for communications companies to guarantee a "back door" to law enforcement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #42 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteI understand your point, but saying it's not a search because it's called a frisk or a patdown is stretching the point - the purpose is still to discover a possible weapon. The point is, there is a legal difference between a pat down and actually searching someone. They may be similar... but they are different. In a pat down, it is only on the outside of your clothes. They can only seize what is "immediately identifiable". If they feel a gun or knife your fucked. If they feel a pack of smokes in my pocket, they can not take it out and look inside the pack. A true search is what the TSA is doing. Under the clothes, going through your personal belongings. Touching peoples junk. For that according to the constitution...they need a search warrant...or you have already been placed under arrest. All of this was discussed in another thread. The TSA is doing a search but no warrant is needed since each person gives his/her implied consent by entering the security area. As for frisk v. search...a frisk is a type of search. From Webster, Definition of FRISK : "to search (a person) for something (as a concealed weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the clothing and through the pockets" consent search : a warrantless search conducted upon the voluntarily given consent of a person having authority over the place or things to be searchedHAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 January 6, 2011 Quote Sure, you can encrypt stuff, but cellphone systems nowadays have a feature called "lawful intercept" where a network has to make any call available to law enforcement upon request. Currently that requires a warrant, but the precedent is set for communications companies to guarantee a "back door" to law enforcement. If one just pin coded the phone, that seems like an easy barrier to get past. But lots of encryption options that should be able to work around this concern. It's data, not the calls, that are now open to their viewing. Calls were never secure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #44 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuote Sure, you can encrypt stuff, but cellphone systems nowadays have a feature called "lawful intercept" where a network has to make any call available to law enforcement upon request. Currently that requires a warrant, but the precedent is set for communications companies to guarantee a "back door" to law enforcement. If one just pin coded the phone, that seems like an easy barrier to get past. But lots of encryption options that should be able to work around this concern. It's data, not the calls, that are now open to their viewing. Calls were never secure. I wouldn't be surprised if the messages weren't stored somewhere at the provider, either.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #45 January 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Sure, you can encrypt stuff, but cellphone systems nowadays have a feature called "lawful intercept" where a network has to make any call available to law enforcement upon request. Currently that requires a warrant, but the precedent is set for communications companies to guarantee a "back door" to law enforcement. If one just pin coded the phone, that seems like an easy barrier to get past. But lots of encryption options that should be able to work around this concern. It's data, not the calls, that are now open to their viewing. Calls were never secure. I wouldn't be surprised if the messages weren't stored somewhere at the provider, either. i look it up, and there are already some secure SMS apps out there. I can't tell if they do what I think they should do, but nothing prevents a method where all they can store is apparent garbage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #46 January 6, 2011 I have retreived my daughters text messages from her provider. It only worked because she is a minor - an adult you cannot do that to.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #47 January 6, 2011 QuoteReally? You've never checked a perp's collar or beltline during a Terry stop? Never felt inside the top of a pair of boots to see if a knife is clipped in there? Never asked a stop "mind if I take a look around your vehicle?" Not a cop, so no I haven't. Checking my collar is not the same as what the TSA it's doing. Every time a cop had asked to search my vehicle...I have told them they do not have my permission. Only one pushed it further by calling a k9 unit. Dog found nothing, they never searched my car further then that. He wasn't happy about but he had no cause. Actually I did let one cop search my vehicle in texas. We where out in the middle of the desert. Just me and him. He asked me to step out of the car. I guess I moved to fast for him. He drew on me for no reason. Since he was so jumpy, I figured I didn't want to give him a reason to pistol whip me or worse.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #48 January 6, 2011 Quote From Webster, Definition of FRISK : "to search (a person) for something (as a concealed weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the clothing and through the pockets" Websters is not a source for legal definitions.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #49 January 7, 2011 Quote I wouldn't be surprised if the messages weren't stored somewhere at the provider, either. Don't be. I'm sure they do. Remember when iPhones first came out? People were getting bills that were thousands of pages long. Every call and text was I'm those bills.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #50 January 7, 2011 Quote Quote From Webster, Definition of FRISK : "to search (a person) for something (as a concealed weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the clothing and through the pockets" Websters is not a source for legal definitions. Oh my fucking god! You post links to wiki as evidence and then say Websters is not a source for legal definitions! That is HILARIOUS!! Silence! Enough laughter!Ok, back to business. You can check if you like, but the defintion from Merriam-Webster is almost word-for-word the same as every other source i checked. Hmmm. Go figure. BTW, what is it you have been doing that causes cops to constantly want to search your vehicle? I've been driving for 30+ years, had my share of traffic tickets, and have only been asked once if they could search my car. I declined their request and the cop was fine with my decision. Maybe because i treated him with respect? Nah, that couldn't be it.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites