Arizona Congresswoman, shot in the head

[Amazon 7]

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Understand, I've NEVER said we should ban guns in general or even handguns. That said, in this very particular case, had the previous ban on high capacity magazines had remained in effect the shooter would not have been able to purchase one in his local gun shop. It would have forced him to either find a different source, which would have slowed his plan, or do without, which, again in this particular case probably would have meant fewer bullets fired and fewer people hit by them.

But a smaller magazine would not have prevent his assassination attempt on Gabrielle Giffords. It really sucks that other people died or were wounded. But the same rhetoric would still be with us. He targeted Ms Giffords with a premeditated assassination attempt. For some reason he has been pissed off at Ms Giffords for a number of years now. Why? Maybe we will find out one day soon, maybe we won't.

Come on.... 5 of those victims should never have been unarmed... its all their fault they died. And what of all the wounded.. perhaps they should have been armed too.

If the whackadoodles can buy the weapons at will.... the sane people better learn that safety lies in being more heavily armed and have better training.

[quade 4]

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>>>>This shooter didn't have a rifle. It was a handgun with a large capacity magazine.
He also didn't have a bomb, or a fork. What is your point?

Mine is that if the need is bad enough in his head - he could find a way.

Your straw man about stats of Fork Assassinations is rediculous, BTW - I reallt thought you would have offered better.

Nice try, but I didn't introduce the fork thing here; bigbearfng did.

He set it up. I simply knocked it down. BTW, that IS the definition of a Strawman argument; what HE did.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

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the strict 2nd Amendment folks have a conniption anytime the thought of a license is even mentioned so that's just not going to happen.

And with due cause! No "infringement" is how I believe it is written.

Well, no. That's NOT the way it's written. If you're going to quote it, f'in' know what you're quoting.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 220]

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>>>>This shooter didn't have a rifle. It was a handgun with a large capacity magazine.
He also didn't have a bomb, or a fork. What is your point?

Mine is that if the need is bad enough in his head - he could find a way.

Your straw man about stats of Fork Assassinations is rediculous, BTW - I reallt thought you would have offered better.

Nice try, but I didn't introduce the fork thing here; bigbearfng did.

He set it up. I simply knocked it down. BTW, that IS the definition of a Strawman argument; what HE did.

No - you requested stats of same:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4035458#4035458

No - you didn't intoduce murder by fork into the conversation, but you did try to use it as part as your argument.

Nice dodge attempt though.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[bigbearfng 18]

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I am just trying to genuinely address what was brought up-and attempt to infuse some reality to the knee jerk reaction of-"ban the object".

Understand, I've NEVER said we should ban guns in general or even handguns. That said, in this very particular case, had the previous ban on high capacity magazines had remained in effect the shooter would not have been able to purchase one in his local gun shop. It would have forced him to either find a different source, which would have slowed his plan, or do without, which, again in this particular case probably would have meant fewer bullets fired and fewer people hit by them.

As to any sort of DMV-style solutions to removing handguns from people thought to be incompetent; I'm all for that. However, as stated MANY posts ago, strict 2nd Amendment proponents would never allow such a thing since it pretty much means all gun owners would have to be de facto licensed. I'm not opposed to that at all, it's the exact same way we handle any one of a number of things; cars, airplanes, nuclear power . . . unfortunately, the strict 2nd Amendment folks have a conniption anytime the thought of a license is even mentioned so that's just not going to happen.

Thank you-
Actually the DMV style would not have to deal with "a license" to own a firearm.
As the system currently stands, if your background check when you attempt to purchase shows that you are a convicted felon, declared legally mentally incompetent, not a US citizen/citizen of the state where you are purchasing, then you're denied.
So a person that checks negative can go forward with the purchase, no license required. Of course Ca. now requires a firearms certificate to be shown that you took a class on firearms safety, but again that is not a required licensure.
As it stands already-if someone already owns a firearm (again I'm familiar with CA. so other states may very well be slightly different.) and is then convicted of a felony/domestic violence/domestic restraining order/legally declared mentally incompetent-then they forfeit the constitutional right to own a firearm-with specific provisions/requirements for reinstatement.
And hey-ban the magazine or the firearm-sorry it's still "ban the object", and doesn't deal with the "crazy". And the fork-you missed the point /not assasination it's death-and I only personally know of one death by fork, but they were just as dead whether by fork, knife, gun poison etc..
Again, I'm just trying to constructively throw some actual ideas out there.

[quade 4]

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>>>>This shooter didn't have a rifle. It was a handgun with a large capacity magazine.
He also didn't have a bomb, or a fork. What is your point?

Mine is that if the need is bad enough in his head - he could find a way.

Your straw man about stats of Fork Assassinations is rediculous, BTW - I reallt thought you would have offered better.

Nice try, but I didn't introduce the fork thing here; bigbearfng did.

He set it up. I simply knocked it down. BTW, that IS the definition of a Strawman argument; what HE did.

No - you requested stats of same:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4035458#4035458

No - you didn't intoduce murder by fork into the conversation, but you did try to use it as part as your argument.

Nice dodge attempt though.

It's not a dodge. Show me the number of assassination attempts make with forks! If you like, I'll make it MUCH easier on you; find me any in say, the last 200 years!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Come on.... 5 of those victims should never have been unarmed... its all their fault they died. And what of all the wounded.. perhaps they should have been armed too.

Who do you think you are? Andy Kaufman? Playing mind games again?

Okay I will bite ,,, but I will need to call it a night soon.

I remember about 4-5 years ago hearing a story where some drug house in the Seattle area was broken into just around sunrise. Everyone in the house was just falling asleep after a hard night of ingesting drugs and alcohol. There was plenty of weapons in the house, but I believe everyone (or most of them) were murdered by their assailants. Why? It's kind of hard to defend yourself when you are sleeping. Sometimes a gun will protect you and sometimes it won't. People still like the idea of having one around. With one they may be able to defend themselves. Without one they are defenseless. Of course if you limit your opportunities of falling into the wrong crowd your chances of dying from a bullet are greatly reduced. That was my strategy when I lived in Colorado. Worked for me (knock on wood).

Of course what does this all have to do with Jared Loughner's assassination attempt on Gabrielle Giffords?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[turtlespeed 220]

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the strict 2nd Amendment folks have a conniption anytime the thought of a license is even mentioned so that's just not going to happen.

And with due cause! No "infringement" is how I believe it is written.

Well, no. That's NOT the way it's written. If you're going to quote it, f'in' know what you're quoting.

Well -

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Section 2. The right of the people to keep arms reasonable for hunting, sport, collecting, and personal defense shall not be infringed.

So the actual language he used was incorrect

The root word of Infringe is still there though -

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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Come on.... 5 of those victims should never have been unarmed... its all their fault they died. And what of all the wounded.. perhaps they should have been armed too.

Who do you think you are? Andy Kaufman? Playing mind games again?

Okay I will bite ,,, but I will need to call it a night soon.

I remember about 4-5 years ago hearing a story where some drug house in the Seattle area was broken into just around sunrise. Everyone in the house was just falling asleep after a hard night of ingesting drugs and alcohol. There was plenty of weapons in the house, but I believe everyone (or most of them) were murdered by their assailants. Why? It's kind of hard to defend yourself when you are sleeping. Sometimes a gun will protect you and sometimes it won't. People still like the idea of having one around. With one they may be able to defend themselves. Without one they are defenseless. Of course if you limit your opportunities of falling into the wrong crowd your chances of dying from a bullet are greatly reduced. That was my strategy when I lived in Colorado. Worked for me (knock on wood).

Of course what does this all have to do with Jared Loughner's assassination attempt on Gabrielle Giffords?

Good plan.... avoiding those in the drug trade ... lots of chances for meeting a sad end on many levels. I would imagine its pretty hard to react when you are all doped out.

I would posit.. their house was not secured ... probably no alarms for entry ... and its amazing how good the addition of a couple of dogs that do not sleep as soundly can give you those few seconds to fill your hands with something to protect yourself with. I would also wonder how much range time those victims spent in the last.. say 50 years

Our armed society is not all that polite ... so its best to just be better armed. Perhaps a few of the sane people in the crowd being armed would have made all the difference in the world. When you see someone with a weapon and they start shooting it... at a crowd ... I would say that return fire would be appropriate. Its sad that so many people there were defenseless victims.

The police will not pretect them from the Jared Loghners ... and the lack of anything to actually identify those like him several years ago when he was already letting everyone around him know he was a whack job, leaves us with the need to be able to protect ourselves at a moments notice. Too bad... soo Sad ... but the media and the lawyers will continue to make out like bandits on this one.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Ever since I was a little kid and visited some family friend's farm and met their less than friendly dog, I have always been a fan of German Shepherds. If I was a drug dealer I would have more than one German Shepherd in the house.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Poerett 0]

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the strict 2nd Amendment folks have a conniption anytime the thought of a license is even mentioned so that's just not going to happen.

And with due cause! No "infringement" is how I believe it is written.

Well, no. That's NOT the way it's written. If you're going to quote it, f'in' know what you're quoting.

Well EXCUUUSSEE MEEEEEEE!!!
Anyway , anyone who isn't quite so anally retentive might understand just what the founding fathers intended.
No Infringements!!!

FW UC
"Treetop"a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[Amazon 7]

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Ever since I was a little kid and visited some family friend's farm and met their less than friendly dog, I have always been a fan of German Shepherds. If I was a drug dealer I would have more than one German Shepherd in the house.

I prefer a nice big noisy Snow Dog that loves me.... and raises hell at anyone else

[Amazon 7]

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the strict 2nd Amendment folks have a conniption anytime the thought of a license is even mentioned so that's just not going to happen.

And with due cause! No "infringement" is how I believe it is written.

Well, no. That's NOT the way it's written. If you're going to quote it, f'in' know what you're quoting.

Well EXCUUUSSEE MEEEEEEE!!!
Anyway , anyone who isn't quite so anally retentive might understand just what the founding fathers intended.
No Infringements!!!

FW UC
"Treetop"a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

DUUUUUUUUDE

How many of the Founding Fathers were completely and utterly whacked in the head.. and posting nutbag shit on YouTube


Just sayin

[Poerett 0]

[replyI prefer a nice big noisy Snow Dog that loves me.... and raises hell at anyone else

Just that dog found me a couple weeks ago!
A Grand Pyreneese.
She's having a blast in the snow looking after my smaller dogs.
I'll take care of the girl for life but I would prefer to reunite her with her owner.
Any suggestions on how to find the owner of a lost dog?

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[Poerett 0]

[reply DUUUUUUUUDE

How many of the Founding Fathers were completely and utterly whacked in the head.. and posting nutbag shit on YouTube


Just sayin

[Amazon 7]

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[replyI prefer a nice big noisy Snow Dog that loves me.... and raises hell at anyone else

Just that dog found me a couple weeks ago!
A Grand Pyreneese.
She's having a blast in the snow looking after my smaller dogs.
I'll take care of the girl for life but I would prefer to reunite her with her owner.
Any suggestions on how to find the owner of a lost dog?

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

Look for and contact one of the rescue groups for that breed or the local shelter.

[Poerett 0]

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[replyI prefer a nice big noisy Snow Dog that loves me.... and raises hell at anyone else

Just that dog found me a couple weeks ago!
A Grand Pyreneese.
She's having a blast in the snow looking after my smaller dogs.
I'll take care of the girl for life but I would prefer to reunite her with her owner.
Any suggestions on how to find the owner of a lost dog?

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

Look for and contact one of the rescue groups for that breed or the local shelter.

Ofcourse I did that first. I've posted on fido finder, took the dog to the vet to see if it had been chipped.
Got it all the shots since it didn't have a tag on the collar.
My found ad will go in to the paper tommorow.

I just can't believe that someone hasn't noticed this 124 pound dog isn't in their livingroom tonight.

Maybe I'm just not looking on the right lost dog site.

Do you know of any?

FW UC
(BAMMN!!! Doesn't that look Bad Ass?? And to think just a few days ago I thought that the reader might think I was gay for posting"Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings"
FW UC!!!
I'm Bad Ass!!! LOL)
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[Amazon 7]

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[replyI prefer a nice big noisy Snow Dog that loves me.... and raises hell at anyone else

Just that dog found me a couple weeks ago!
A Grand Pyreneese.
She's having a blast in the snow looking after my smaller dogs.
I'll take care of the girl for life but I would prefer to reunite her with her owner.
Any suggestions on how to find the owner of a lost dog?

"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

Look for and contact one of the rescue groups for that breed or the local shelter.

Ofcourse I did that first. I've posted on fido finder, took the dog to the vet to see if it had been chipped.
Got it all the shots since it didn't have a tag on the collar.
My found ad will go in to the paper tommorow.

I just can't believe that someone hasn't noticed this 124 pound dog isn't in their livingroom tonight.

Maybe I'm just not looking on the right lost dog site.

Do you know of any?

FW UC
(BAMMN!!! Doesn't that look Bad Ass?? And to think just a few days ago I thought that the reader might think I was gay for posting"Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings"
FW UC!!!
I'm Bad Ass!!! LOL)
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

Sounds like you have it covered... just make sure anyone who answers the ad is really the owner.. the dog will show you...

Everyone I know has piccies of their 4 legged family members.

[Poerett 0]

[reply Sounds like you have it covered... just make sure anyone who answers the ad is really the owner.. the dog will show you...

Thanks and of course I've consideredf false claims.
Ear markings and coller color is how I plan to seperate the wants from the owners.

Tears ago a hound dog , a Treeing Walker, found me .
I learned about the phone call claimants back then.

FW UC
"Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[rushmc 23]

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Robert Heinlein was wrong.....

Our armed society is not a polite society


Live with it since you wish to do absolutely nothing about it.

Are these posts under the id Amazon coming from the same person who states she refuses to be a vitcim/ That somebody coming for her would encounter armed resistance?

If so

Then you and Rosy are the only ones you would allow to have weapons?

Cause it seems you think you know who the next loony is going to be

I dont

Well

Maybe I do?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Jared did manage to off one lawyer ... hey ... baby steps

Perhaps he was a fan of Shakespeare? Or perhaps it was only a coincidence.

Meh

Too bad about the collateral damage though... I guess they should all have been armed to pretect themselves...

Lord knows the police are not there to protect anyone

So now YOU are inciting violence

Nice

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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>>>>This shooter didn't have a rifle. It was a handgun with a large capacity magazine.
He also didn't have a bomb, or a fork. What is your point?

Mine is that if the need is bad enough in his head - he could find a way.

Your straw man about stats of Fork Assassinations is rediculous, BTW - I reallt thought you would have offered better.

Nice try, but I didn't introduce the fork thing here; bigbearfng did.

He set it up. I simply knocked it down. BTW, that IS the definition of a Strawman argument; what HE did.

No - you requested stats of same:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4035458#4035458

No - you didn't intoduce murder by fork into the conversation, but you did try to use it as part as your argument.

Nice dodge attempt though.

It's not a dodge. Show me the number of assassination attempts make with forks! If you like, I'll make it MUCH easier on you; find me any in say, the last 200 years!

I wonder if there have been any assassination attempts using a car?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply] Lawrocket wants to protect them.

[kallend 2,027]

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[Reply] Lawrocket wants to protect them.

You're goddamned right I do. Believe it or not, I think the First, Second, Fourth, fifth, Sixth Amendments (all of them, actually) apply to those who would be considered "loonies" and those with a psychiatric diagnosis.

.

[turtlespeed 220]

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[Reply] Lawrocket wants to protect them.

You're goddamned right I do. Believe it or not, I think the First, Second, Fourth, fifth, Sixth Amendments (all of them, actually) apply to those who would be considered "loonies" and those with a psychiatric diagnosis.

.

I submit that the victims of the loonies have a right not to be shot dead that trumps the rights of the loony.