Gun Control Proposed in US House

[kallend 2,027]

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SAME LAME old strawman.

Then why do you keep using it?

OK, please tell us who here has proposed outlawing firearms?

Or is that just a 2nd grader's comeback?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

Well, if you would ever take a clear position, maybe we could discuss it. Until then, we have to guess exactly where you stand. Come on, give us a real person to talk to instead of hiding behind vague generalities and then screaming "strawman" at every argument you don't want to answer.

Do you doubt that there are politicians and lobbying groups whose ultimate goal is banning the vast majority of people from owning the vast majority of guns?

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[kallend 2,027]

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Well, if you would ever take a clear position, maybe we could discuss it. Until then, we have to guess exactly where you stand. Come on, give us a real person to talk to instead of hiding behind vague generalities and then screaming "strawman" at every argument you don't want to answer.

Well, if you could bring yourself to read what I have written instead of inventing your own inaccurate version, maybe we could have a discussion.

You might also bring yourself to admit that the USA has a serious problem with gun violence, instead of being in denial.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Kennedy 0]

(A) If you could point us to the post where you gave stated a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be, or even just a rough idea of how to keep "loonies" from running around with guns, please link us to it, and I'll happily apologize and we can talk about it. I've done so several time here in the forums.

(B) Should I shrilly scream strawman, as I've learned from you? I tend to not swim in African rivers. It's not healthy. The USA has a violent crime problem. I haven't seen anyone deny that. So rather than keep repeating your same invalid statement, would you care to offer some suggestion or idea? You know, some statement that can be argued discussed and defended on its own merits, regardless of whether a person denies the need for discussion.

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[kallend 2,027]

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(A) If you could point us to the post where you gave stated a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be, or even just a rough idea of how to keep "loonies" from running around with guns, please link us to it, and I'll happily apologize and we can talk about it. I've done so several time here in the forums.

Jan 11, 2011, 3:29 PM. Also in this very thread.

Not my problem if you won't read opinions you disagree with.

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(B) Should I shrilly scream strawman, as I've learned from you? I tend to not swim in African rivers. It's not healthy. The USA has a violent crime problem. I haven't seen anyone deny that. So rather than keep repeating your same invalid statement, would you care to offer some suggestion or idea? You know, some statement that can be argued discussed and defended on its own merits, regardless of whether a person denies the need for discussion.

Not my problem if you won't read.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[popsjumper 2]

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but you've shown no hesitation in proposing a half baked solution to 'solve' it.

Damn, this is getting tiresome.
Hammering a suggestion with NO alternative suggestions.

Starting to sound like nothing more than a temper tantrum.

Again...do you have something better or different?
I'll stand corrected if you've already posted something along those lines.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 221]

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It is fascinating how steadfastly you defend a status quo that has proven so hopelessly inadequate to prevent massacres by the likes of Cho and Loughner.

Fascinating

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

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but you've shown no hesitation in proposing a half baked solution to 'solve' it.

Damn, this is getting tiresome.
Hammering a suggestion with NO alternative suggestions.

Starting to sound like nothing more than a temper tantrum.

Again...do you have something better or different?
I'll stand corrected if you've already posted something along those lines.

It seems fair to assume you're capable of reading English, so it would help if you would actually read. I've provided the answer to your silly questions several times - then you shut up for a while - and then you recycle your same BS.

[Kennedy 0]

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(A) If you could point us to the post where you gave stated a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be, or even just a rough idea of how to keep "loonies" from running around with guns, please link us to it, and I'll happily apologize and we can talk about it. I've done so several time here in the forums.

Jan 11, 2011, 3:29 PM. Also in this very thread.

Not my problem if you won't read opinions you disagree with.

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(B) Should I shrilly scream strawman, as I've learned from you? I tend to not swim in African rivers. It's not healthy. The USA has a violent crime problem. I haven't seen anyone deny that. So rather than keep repeating your same invalid statement, would you care to offer some suggestion or idea? You know, some statement that can be argued discussed and defended on its own merits, regardless of whether a person denies the need for discussion.

Not my problem if you won't read.

Come on professor. I didn't even ask for a link. Just a post number of copied shortcut would have done. You were too lazy. So I checked your posts in this thread.

On page 4, you have two posts where you say nothing other than people are denying that a problem exists.

On page 5, you said

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If a loonie gets a gun quite legally, and then uses it in a shooting spree that leaves a bunch of dead people, then clearly the law is defective.

While I disagree, since the purpose of the law is not to prevent the possibility of any bad thing every happening, I think we can all agree that this does not constitute "a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be."

Page 6 you said

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It is fascinating how steadfastly you defend a status quo that has proven so hopelessly inadequate to prevent massacres by the likes of Cho and Loughner.

Motor vehicle laws fail to prevent deaths related to motor vehicles. DWI laws fail to prevent drunks and chemically impaired people from driving. Laws and codes/ordinances fail to prevent deaths in swimming pools and bathtubs. If you look at injury or death to number of users, I bet even rigs looks more dangerous than guns. Do we need container, harness, and canopy control laws to prevent jump related deaths? Or would you "defend the status quo that has proven so hopelessly inadequate to prevent" horrible loss of life and limb?

Either way, still not "a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be."

Later on 6, you said

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Jared and Cho show conclusively that the law as enacted, implemented and enforced is totally ineffective.

In case you hadn't noticed (or just don't care) the law allowed them access to weapons that killed and/or wounded dozens of people.

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It is indeed a pity that the body count is so high.

then

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I report the student to the Dean of Students, whose staff includes experts in evaluating behavior.

There is a good reason we have experts in our society.

I suspect that you would know when you have severe abdominal pain, but would get a surgeon to remove your infected appendix rather than doing it yourself.

finally, you called someone a strawman.

So tell me, professor, where in this thread have you "stated a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be," so that we can all see your path to a better system.

As to your Jan 11, 2011, 3:29 PM, well, it's obviously not in this thread, since I started it Jan 11, 2011, 9:11 PM. Over in the "Arizona Congresswoman Shot" thread, there aren't any posts at 3:29pm by you or anyone else. I even checked 4:29pm and 5:29pm to account for timezones. It's not in either of the threads on the topic for that date. I'm not checking every thread to see your posts. Can you copy and paste a url?

I did find this post by you. (see how easy that was?) All it says is that you aren't against sane law abiding citizens being able to own firearms. Of course, unless you require every gun owner to submit to psych eval, I don't know how you would distinguish sane from insane. If you want to talk about improving care for mentally ill or handicapped people, I'm all for that, but that's not a gun law issue. That is improving the mental health care system and doesn't require any change to gun laws to improve the situation. For the law abiding descriptor, well as long as you're not a gun-banner who thinks stop sign violations or simple misdemeanors should cause forfeiture of rights, we can find common ground on the law-abiding requirement.

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[DaVinci 0]

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The way to "fight back" against government is non-violent non-cooperation.

Check your history books. This country was founded by a violent overthrow AFTER the peaceful methods failed.

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Besides, the government has you hopelessly out gunned anyway, and would crush any violent (popular or not) opposition.

1. People said the same thing about the British.
2 Vietnam didn't get crushed.
3. Afghanistan beat Russia, and is going the US a hard time.
4. Iraq is not exactly a walk for US forces.

[DaVinci 0]

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I am NOT good with that. Get the people who belong on the list onto it. Let the professionals, deal with them.

Seriously.... What if YOU ended up on that list due to some of your comments?

Would the list still be a good idea?

[Amazon 7]

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I am NOT good with that. Get the people who belong on the list onto it. Let the professionals, deal with them.

Seriously.... What if YOU ended up on that list due to some of your comments?

Would the list still be a good idea?

I guess you think that is the best thing in your wonderful little goose stepping world of pulpit mind control..

Paging Dr Cratchet....... STAT.

The perfect Conservetard World... where never is heard a discouraging word because all of your opponents are drooling from your un-professional haldol dispensing control freaks.

[DaVinci 0]

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I guess you think that is the best thing in your wonderful little goose stepping world of pulpit mind control..

Paging Dr Cratchet....... STAT.

The perfect Conservetard World... where never is heard a discouraging word because all of your opponents are drooling from your un-professional haldol dispensing control freaks.

Got it... I asked you a question. Instead of replying you throw insults.

Basically you know you have nothing of merit to say and no leg to stand on, so you act like this.

I thought personal attacks were not allowed?

Now care to act like an adult and actually answer the question asked?

[kallend 2,027]

Try post 471 of that thread, shows at 1/11/2011 at 1:29 on my PC.

Still in denial, I see.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

"Doing a more effective check for mental illness does not constitute a gun ban."

a bit thin in the process description.

[Kennedy 0]

I asked you for

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(A) If you could point us to the post where you gave stated a clear position on what the laws concerning firearms should and should not be, or even just a rough idea of how to keep "loonies" from running around with guns, please link us to it, and I'll happily apologize and we can talk about it. I've done so several time here in the forums.

You gave us:

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Jan 11, 2011, 3:29 PM. Also in this very thread.

Not my problem if you won't read opinions you disagree with.

You gave me a wild goose chase, couldn't post a link, and finally, in answer, you point us to this post:

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Because your definition is so broad and expansive, the effect is banning guns. .

No, that is just as much a strawman as Mike's arguments.

Requiring a background check for private sales does not constitute a gun ban. It just puts them on the same footing as sales by licensed dealers.

Doing a more effective check for mental illness does not constitute a gun ban.

You have the makings of a lawyer. Oh, wait...

Really professor, you consider that an answer to my question?

And I seem to recall answering that post. I did.

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I'm not going to bother quoting myself, but I'm going to ask AGAIN.

What change do you suggest that would prevent this from happening? What should we do to keep guns out of the hands of loonies? Do you have any specific ideas to improve the current system?

I finially saw you put out an idea for changing things on page twenty of the thread, where you mentioned background checks on private sales. Do tell, exaclty what effect that would have had on either Tuscon or VaTech. From what I remember, both purchased their firearms from FFLs.

If you want us to discuss your ideas, rather than "strawmen," then tell us where you stand. Give us a real man to talk to, instead of the scarecrow.

What is your better idea?

What do you suggest we do that would stop loonies from running around with guns? What gun laws do we need that would make a difference? Background checks on private sales? Why? A "more effective mental health check?" How? We have a definition codified in law. Would you change it? What do you want to be different to make it more effective?

Or is it maybe not the guns, or even the gun laws that are to blame? Maybe the gun laws work just fine, and it's the mental health system that's broken.

I'm tired of chasing you around in circles looking for an answer. If you can't state a clear position, then from now on I'm just going to reply to any post of yours in gun threads with STFD and STFU.

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[kallend 2,027]

A good first step would be for people like YOU to admit that the USA has a problem, and to admit that something can be done about it if, instead of giving a knee-jerk rejection of every proposal, you are prepared to consider possible solutions.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[popsjumper 2]

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A good first step would be for people like YOU to admit that the USA has a problem, and to admit that something can be done about it if,

Yes, repetition is one argument-winning tactic.

However it is only used legitimately in negotiations...not arguments.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Kennedy 0]

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A good first step would be for people like YOU to admit that the USA has a problem, and to admit that something can be done about it if, instead of giving a knee-jerk rejection of every proposal, you are prepared to consider possible solutions.

Something like three hundred posts ago I told you that I agree there is a problem, I just disagree on exactly what the problem is. You think there is a problem with inanimate pieces of metal and plastic. I think there is a problem with violent crime, a problem with our mental health system, and number ofnother problems in our country. I don't think that we have too many rights or that any of them are too widely protected by the government.

I'm willing to discuss solutions. It's difficult to discuss them though when youbare incapable of articulating a clear position. I've stated my position many times. It'd be nice if you could do it just once.

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[carmenc 0]

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A good first step would be for people like YOU to admit that the USA has a problem, and to admit that something can be done about it if, instead of giving a knee-jerk rejection of every proposal, you are prepared to consider possible solutions.

Something like three hundred posts ago I told you that I agree there is a problem, I just disagree on exactly what the problem is. You think there is a problem with inanimate pieces of metal and plastic. I think there is a problem with violent crime, a problem with our mental health system, and number ofnother problems in our country. I don't think that we have too many rights or that any of them are too widely protected by the government.

I'm willing to discuss solutions. It's difficult to discuss them though when youbare incapable of articulating a clear position. I've stated my position many times. It'd be nice if you could do it just once.

I haven't seen you suggest a single idea for discussion. Did I miss something?

[mnealtx 0]

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I haven't seen you suggest a single idea for discussion. Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything. He didn't say he had a solution to the bullshit argument about inanimate objects, just that he's willing to discuss solutions.

You misrepresent the argument in the same way kallend does - do you get brownie points or something?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,027]

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I haven't seen you suggest a single idea for discussion. Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything. He didn't say he had a solution to the bullshit argument about inanimate objects, just that he's willing to discuss solutions.

You misrepresent the argument in the same way kallend does - do you get brownie points or something?

So that makes two of you who just pay lip service but never propose an idea of your own.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

So that makes two of you who just pay lip service but never propose an idea of your own.

[kallend 2,027]

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So that makes two of you who just pay lip service but never propose an idea of your own.

Irony score off all charts

[rushmc 23]

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So that makes two of you who just pay lip service but never propose an idea of your own.

Irony score off all charts

Please provide us a link to YOUR proposals.