Another Court Rules Obama Care Unconstitutional

[wmw999 2,452]

A long-standing presumption does not have the force of law.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

A long-standing presumption does not have the force of law.

Wendy P.

Oh

Ok

Then ignore president and do your own damned thing


I get it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'd be willing to bet that Amazon has insurance, so she doesn't expect others to carry her weight.

Until her recent job change (for the better), she had very poor health insurance and complained about it bitterly here.

But who really thinks that this universal service will be the quality of the second job, rather than the first one?

[rushmc 23]

Is this not clear?

Quote

As a result, the
declaratory judgment is the functional equivalent of an injunction

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[doughboyshred 0]

Quote

Page 75 of the ruling

Quote

(5) Injunction
The last issue to be resolved is the plaintiffs’ request for injunctive relief
enjoining implementation of the Act, which can be disposed of very quickly.
Injunctive relief is an “extraordinary” [Weinberger v. Romero-Barcelo, 456
U.S. 305, 312, 102 S. Ct. 1798, 72 L. Ed. 2d 91 (1982)], and “drastic” remedy
[Aaron v. S.E.C., 446 U.S. 680, 703, 100 S. Ct. 1945, 64 L. Ed. 2d 611 (1980)
(Burger, J., concurring)]. It is even more so when the party to be enjoined is the
federal government, for there is a long-standing presumption “that officials of the
Executive Branch will adhere to the law as declared by the court. As a result, the
declaratory judgment is the functional equivalent of an injunction.” See Comm. on
Judiciary of U.S. House of Representatives v. Miers, 542 F.3d 909, 911 (D.C. Cir.
2008); accord Sanchez-Espinoza v. Reagan, 770 F.2d 202, 208 n.8 (D.C. Cir.
1985) (“declaratory judgment is, in a context such as this where federal officers
are defendants, the practical equivalent of specific relief such as an injunction . . .
since it must be presumed that federal officers will adhere to the law as declared
by the court”) (Scalia, J.) (emphasis added).
There is no reason to conclude that this presumption should not apply here.
Thus, the award of declaratory relief is adequate and separate injunctive relief is
not necessary.

So if the Obama admin is law abiding the law no longer is in force until decided by the SC

So does that mean my health insurance provider is going to lower my rates back to the levels they were at before they raised them, supposedly due to the new mandates?

Ha. If anyone believes that health insurance rates are going to drop, regardless of what happens with HCR they're on drugs.

I don't like the mandate to purchase insurance, it doesn't seem right to me, that the fed government should be able to order a free citizen to purchase something that they don't want to.

However, as is shown repeatedly (recent article about guy that didn't pay his share of fire protection, but still expected help from fire department) people expect help when they are in need, regardless of whether they have paid in to the fund. Nobody expects to get cancer, and a lot of people will gamble to avoid paying hundreds of dollars a month for health insurance. But, when it comes right down to it, and they need help, they sure as fuck are going to ask for it. I don't care how free market minded you are, if you don't have health insurance and you are dying you are going to ask for help. Furthermore, morally, we are obligated to give that help. Whether your morals are derived from god, or not.

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

That's a consistent viewpoint. What would you do about the uninsured person who biffs a landing at the DZ and is screaming. Let's say the dz is not close to a metro area with a charity hospital.

I'm not trying to trap; I'm really curious, because too often people want to have both EMTALA and a smug feeling that they're not paying for anyone else. It doesn't work that way.

Wendy P.

I'd advise people not to jump if they didn't have insurance. Of course I would already advise that. Maybe people would listen more if the consequences of their actions were different.

Really, I have no problem with people being left to deal with the consequences of their own choices. That would mean some people wouldn't get treatment. Bad things happen to people all the time now. I know that probably make me an uncaring, unfeeling person to a lot of people.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[wmw999 2,452]

Excuse me?

The court did not grant the injunction. He said he hoped that the government would follow the ruling anyway. They said they would not. There are district court precedents for both sides.

I find it interesting that he found the entire law to be invalid. Except for the part that expanded Medicaid -- apparently that part was, in fact, severable.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

I'd be willing to bet that Amazon has insurance, so she doesn't expect others to carry her weight.

Until her recent job change (for the better), she had very poor health insurance and complained about it bitterly here.

But who really thinks that this universal service will be the quality of the second job, rather than the first one?

Yeah aint it amazing when you THOUGHT you were covered... and were paying and paying and paying.. and then have the health insurer hit you with bogus pre existing condition bullshit...


I think ALL conservatives should have the same experience I had.... they fucking deserve that system in action and they would demand changes NOW.
I am READY for a single payer since I have seen just how well the medical insurance actually takes care of people. That system is broken badly and the abuses are rampant.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Excuse me?

The court did not grant the injunction. He said he hoped that the government would follow the ruling anyway. They said they would not. There are district court precedents for both sides.

I find it interesting that he found the entire law to be invalid. Except for the part that expanded Medicaid -- apparently that part was, in fact, severable.

Wendy P.

Wendy
That is NOT was he published
He stated and injunction was not needed because it Quote

Quote

(5) Injunction
The last issue to be resolved is the plaintiffs’ request for injunctive relief
enjoining implementation of the Act, which can be disposed of very quickly.
Injunctive relief is an “extraordinary” [Weinberger v. Romero-Barcelo, 456
U.S. 305, 312, 102 S. Ct. 1798, 72 L. Ed. 2d 91 (1982)], and “drastic” remedy
[Aaron v. S.E.C., 446 U.S. 680, 703, 100 S. Ct. 1945, 64 L. Ed. 2d 611 (1980)
(Burger, J., concurring)]. It is even more so when the party to be enjoined is the
federal government, for there is a long-standing presumption “that officials of the
Executive Branch will adhere to the law as declared by the court. As a result, the
declaratory judgment is the functional equivalent of an injunction.” See Comm. on
Judiciary of U.S. House of Representatives v. Miers, 542 F.3d 909, 911 (D.C. Cir.
2008); accord Sanchez-Espinoza v. Reagan, 770 F.2d 202, 208 n.8 (D.C. Cir.
1985) (“declaratory judgment is, in a context such as this where federal officers
are defendants, the practical equivalent of specific relief such as an injunction . . .
since it must be presumed that federal officers will adhere to the law as declared
by the court”) (Scalia, J.) (emphasis added).
There is no reason to conclude that this presumption should not apply here.
Thus, the award of declaratory relief is adequate and separate injunctive relief is
not necessary.

end quote

And then he wrote

Quote

For all the reasons stated above and pursuant to Rule 56 of the Federal Rules
of Civil Procedure, the plaintiffs’ motion for summary judgment (doc. 80) is hereby
GRANTED as to its request for declaratory relief on Count I of the Second
Amended Complaint,

And no
The whole law was ruled on
the medicade part he used as an example

This is sad coming from you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I'd be willing to bet that Amazon has insurance, so she doesn't expect others to carry her weight.

Until her recent job change (for the better), she had very poor health insurance and complained about it bitterly here.

But who really thinks that this universal service will be the quality of the second job, rather than the first one?

Yeah aint it amazing when you THOUGHT you were covered... and were paying and paying and paying.. and then have the health insurer hit you with bogus pre existing condition bullshit...


I think ALL conservatives should have the same experience I had.... they fucking deserve that system in action and they would demand changes NOW.
I am READY for a single payer since I have seen just how well the medical insurance actually takes care of people. That system is broken badly and the abuses are rampant.

You are ready because you want the gov to take care of you because you want to be lazy
Too lazy to understand and know the coverage you had

You screwed up but it is somebody elses fault

Typical liberal thought process

The Big Bug brain could really help you it seems

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

And your whole POST drips with typical Conservative dog eat dog America BULLSHIT.

Just wait till you are the recipient of the insurance companies wonderfull service.

No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for.

You seem to not comprehend that.

If I have an asshole who will not pay a bill after the fact and AFTER they said they would pay for it( I had the dr's office CALL the assholes first)

Its a good thing I did not go ahead with the surgery.. I would have been out many many thousands of dollars more than just the thousands I had to pay for the MRI and other tests they said were covered.


Throwing thousands more to lawyers to get them to pay the doctors bills seemed stupid. If I had the shoulder surgury needed then I might have because then it would have been worth it.

FUCK THE INSURANCE companies...

They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for.

You seem to not comprehend that.

If I have an asshole who will not pay a bill after the fact and AFTER they said they would pay for it( I had the dr's office CALL the assholes first)

Its a good thing I did not go ahead with the surgery.. I would have been out many many thousands of dollars more than just the thousands I had to pay for the MRI and other tests they said were covered.


Throwing thousands more to lawyers to get them to pay the doctors bills seemed stupid. If I had the shoulder surgury needed then I might have because then it would have been worth it.

FUCK THE INSURANCE companies...

They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are.

Need some cheese?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for.

You seem to not comprehend that.

If I have an asshole who will not pay a bill after the fact and AFTER they said they would pay for it( I had the dr's office CALL the assholes first)

Its a good thing I did not go ahead with the surgery.. I would have been out many many thousands of dollars more than just the thousands I had to pay for the MRI and other tests they said were covered.


Throwing thousands more to lawyers to get them to pay the doctors bills seemed stupid. If I had the shoulder surgury needed then I might have because then it would have been worth it.

FUCK THE INSURANCE companies...

They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are.

Need some cheese?

I cant wait for you to find yourself in the middle of a REALITY CHECK

KARMA DUDE.. KARMA

Enjoy your treatment.

[billvon 2,998]

>FUCK THE INSURANCE companies...
>They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are.

Well, to be fair, if that's the case, it's not such a good idea to mandate them, eh?

Insurance companies are like any other service. Some are outstanding. Most are mediocre. Some are downright evil. The good thing is that you get to choose which one you want.

>No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for.

And you should get them. The first time your insurance company refuses to cover you for something you should be covered for, then the best response is to get a good lawyer and go after them.

But after that happens once (or even a few times) the old adage "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" comes into play. At that point it may be better to take your money to a company who will treat you better. With the abundance of information available on the net to find an insurance company, it's not hard to find a better one.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

>FUCK THE INSURANCE companies...
>They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are.

Well, to be fair, if that's the case, it's not such a good idea to mandate them, eh?

Insurance companies are like any other service. Some are outstanding. Most are mediocre. Some are downright evil. The good thing is that you get to choose which one you want.

>No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for.

And you should get them. The first time your insurance company refuses to cover you for something you should be covered for, then the best response is to get a good lawyer and go after them.

But after that happens once (or even a few times) the old adage "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" comes into play. At that point it may be better to take your money to a company who will treat you better. With the abundance of information available on the net to find an insurance company, it's not hard to find a better one.

That is EXACTLY what I did...after changing jobs.. and I refused several lucrative contracts with VOLT Technical because that insurance was the ONLY company they offered.. screw them.

Going after UHC would have been expensive and they knew it. That is why they can get away with that kind of crap, It would have been a pyrrhic victory to do so


I did not like that provision of the health care bill... but I am sick of having to pay for people unwilling to buy their own.
I think the public option would be far better for more people than what we have now. The current system is FAILING Americans daily. I am sure there would be some companies willing to offer extended coverage that would cover things beyond the minimums.. and perhaps some of them might even be honest enough to cover the people they insure when the time comes. If they don't... as a company policy as we are seeing now with UHC and several others.. I would BURY the execs in a deep dark solitary cell for a few years to let them contemplate their GREED.

[mirage62 0]

Amazon....I don't know you....don't have a clue about anything about you but you seem to have the worst luck with insurance companies. I'm 50. Have provided and had insurance my entire life. I have never been fucked by them. Nobody in my family has been fucked over by an insurance company. Nobody in my company had been fucked over by the insurance comapnies.

Reading your post I sure as hell can understand why you hate there guts. You are one totally unlucky person when it comes to insurance companies (or company)

If everyone was getting fucked by insurance companies you would have a lot more people on your side.

Unfortantly for you they aren't.

Glad whoever your new insurance company is that you like them.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Amazon 7]

Trust me.. there are MILLIONS of americans out there that have been fucked in the name of insurance executive bonuses...

For those who do not think it can happen to them... the majority of Americans are just one illness or injury away from losing everything you have worked your lifetime for.

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

That is EXACTLY what I did...after changing jobs.. and I refused several lucrative contracts with VOLT Technical because that insurance was the ONLY company they offered.. screw them.

Going after UHC would have been expensive and they knew it. That is why they can get away with that kind of crap, It would have been a pyrrhic victory to do so


I did not like that provision of the health care bill... but I am sick of having to pay for people unwilling to buy their own.
I think the public option would be far better for more people than what we have now. The current system is FAILING Americans daily. I am sure there would be some companies willing to offer extended coverage that would cover things beyond the minimums.. and perhaps some of them might even be honest enough to cover the people they insure when the time comes. If they don't... as a company policy as we are seeing now with UHC and several others.. I would BURY the execs in a deep dark solitary cell for a few years to let them contemplate their GREED.

So opening up your choices by allowing you to purchase different health care policies across state lines might be a good idea? I wish there was a political party out there pushing for something like that. I guess the republicans had noooooooooo good ideas......

But Mandating that you buy Volt technical because that is what your company uses, that will fix everything.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Amazon 7]

No the problem lies in one fatal flaw... they caved to the republitards and the insurance companies and did not even OFFER a public option.

As much as I hated the VA at one point in my life... They at LEAST took care of me and did not force me to pay thousands of dollars that they should have been covering.

Just wait....... if you survive long enough.. you WILL get to deal with these THIEVES.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

No the problem lies in one fatal flaw... they caved to the republitards and the insurance companies and did not even OFFER a public option.

LIKE, OH MY GOSH... YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

If we could just let all the wicked intelligent government elitist tell us what to do and how to live... everything would be fine.

We could have Sunshine and Lolly Pops for everyone!

I mean... why did they even bother with this step, they should have just gone right back to pushing for the Second Bill of Rights.

Bill Maher is so freaking smart too. He's totally right also... Americans are all stupid. It would be so much better if we had a Dictator like China, so we can Get Stuff Done in this STUPID COUNTRY!

Lol.

What a cluster fuck of a thread. I mean seriously...

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

No the problem lies in one fatal flaw... they caved to the republitards and the insurance companies and did not even OFFER a public option.

LIKE, OH MY GOSH... YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

If we could just let all the wicked intelligent government elitist tell us what to do and how to live... everything would be fine.

We could have Sunshine and Lolly Pops for everyone!

I mean... why did they even bother with this step, they should have just gone right back to pushing for the Second Bill of Rights.

Bill Maher is so freaking smart too. He's totally right also... Americans are all stupid. It would be so much better if we had a Dictator like China, so we can Get Stuff Done in this STUPID COUNTRY!

Lol.

What a cluster fuck of a thread. I mean seriously...

No what is GOAT FUCK STUPID is believing that the system that is forced on us right now is working. Personally I would rather live in a society that actually has healthy educated people, of ALL classes not just the wealthy, I am sure you would like to keep EVERY last cent you can squeeze out for yourself... kinda like.... SOMALIA. That is the end game for your dog eat dog conservative lifestyle that so many seem to want.

[dmcoco84 5]

What is "your dog eat dog conservative lifestyle."

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

No what is GOAT FUCK STUPID is believing that the system that is forced on us right now is working.

Do you know who gave us, this current system, of Employment Based Health Insurance?

[doughboyshred 0]

Quote

Quote

No what is GOAT FUCK STUPID is believing that the system that is forced on us right now is working.

Do you know who gave us, this current system, of Employment Based Health Insurance?

That's not necessarily the problem.

The main problem with our health care system is that insurance companies have to deny coverage to increase profitability, and that there is little to nothing that the consumer can do to fight them when that coverage is denied. Often times the denial of coverage leads to bankruptcies, and a lower quality of care, which in some cases results in earlier death, and in many cases results in substandard care.

There are many good arguments for there being a profit motive in providing health care. There are no good arguments for there being a profit motive in providing health care insurance.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

The main problem with our health care system

No... Its not.

Its one of many problems... and the solution is not a 2k+ page bill which creates an enormous bureaucracy on top of the already out of control bureaucracy that we already have.