turtlespeed 221 #176 February 3, 2011 QuoteThat's a consistent viewpoint. What would you do about the uninsured person who biffs a landing at the DZ and is screaming. Let's say the dz is not close to a metro area with a charity hospital. I'm not trying to trap; I'm really curious, because too often people want to have both EMTALA and a smug feeling that they're not paying for anyone else. It doesn't work that way. Wendy P. I just accrued a 60K balance - that I will pay off and feel pretty good that I payed for it. I don't have insurance. The bill will still be paid.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doughboyshred 0 #177 February 3, 2011 Quote Its one of many problems... and the solution is not a 2k+ page bill which creates an enormous bureaucracy on top of the already out of control bureaucracy that we already have. Well, at least we agree on something. I think the solution is a non profit insurance program administered by (or overseen) by the federal government, along with a program for oversight of for profit insurance companies that will curtail their ability to fuck over their customers without redress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #178 February 3, 2011 Quote>FUCK THE INSURANCE companies... >They need to be outlawed as the crooks they are. Well, to be fair, if that's the case, it's not such a good idea to mandate them, eh? Insurance companies are like any other service. Some are outstanding. Most are mediocre. Some are downright evil. The good thing is that you get to choose which one you want. >No.. when I pay... I want to get the services I paid for. And you should get them. The first time your insurance company refuses to cover you for something you should be covered for, then the best response is to get a good lawyer and go after them. But after that happens once (or even a few times) the old adage "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" comes into play. At that point it may be better to take your money to a company who will treat you better. With the abundance of information available on the net to find an insurance company, it's not hard to find a better one. +1 - Wow... billvon, making common sense statement. Shocking! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #179 February 3, 2011 Quote Quote That's a consistent viewpoint. What would you do about the uninsured person who biffs a landing at the DZ and is screaming. Let's say the dz is not close to a metro area with a charity hospital. I'm not trying to trap; I'm really curious, because too often people want to have both EMTALA and a smug feeling that they're not paying for anyone else. It doesn't work that way. Wendy P. I just accrued a 60K balance - that I will pay off and feel pretty good that I payed for it. I don't have insurance. The bill will still be paid. And now you have your first "pre-existing condition" that will make sure that anything having to do with the challenges you now face with the diabetes will not be covered unless reforms actually do occur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #180 February 3, 2011 QuoteI think the solution is a non profit insurance program administered by (or overseen) by the federal government, along with a program for oversight of for profit insurance companies that will curtail their ability to fuck over their customers without redress. Fuck that! How about full repeal (not gonna happen - Courts likely)... then: First Bill: Allow insurance to be sold across state lines - best means to increase competition. Competition decreases cost and increase safety, technology, and access, to everything, not just health care. Another bill: Stay on insurance till 26. (Though technically unconstitutional - at Federal level) Another: Preexisting conditions. (Though technically unconstitutional - at Federal level) And so on... End shopping cart legislation, earmarks and 2k+ page bills. The job of the Federal Government under the Commerce Clause is to regulate (meaning, Maintain Regularity under the law) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doughboyshred 0 #181 February 3, 2011 Quote First Bill: Allow insurance to be sold across state lines - best means to increase competition. Competition decreases cost and increase safety, technology, and access, to everything, not just health care. So, in other words you want to make it as easy as possible for the health insurers to fuck people over. Simply a horrible idea. Free market solutions can not be applied to health care insurance, because, as I have already stated, the profit motive is at odds with moral obligations. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/selling_insurance_across_state.html QuoteConservatives want the opposite: They want insurers to be able to cluster in one state, follow that state's regulations and sell the product to everyone in the country. In practice, that means we will have a single national insurance standard. But that standard will be decided by South Dakota. Or, if South Dakota doesn't give the insurers the freedom they want, it'll be decided by Wyoming. Or whoever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #182 February 3, 2011 This debate is NOT about fixing healthcare. And the arguments, here, about “activist judge rulings,” are simply ridiculous... WHATEVER! This is about inalienable rights, and the Commerce Clause. The Commerce Clause has been abused for far too long! Whether or not the Supreme Court strikes down just the mandate (though the bill crumbles without it), or the entire bill because of the lack of a severability clause... it is wonderful that the debate about the FEDERAL governments scope of influence in being challenged. I would be overjoyed if this bill were to be struck down in its entirety... it would save a shit load of time and money... for if not, it will be dismantled piece by piece. (That is, if other steps aren't taken first - including but not limited to the Supreme Court.) If it takes years... so be it. It has taken Teddy, FDR, Wilson and all the other progressives 100 years to bring us this close to the destruction of the Republic, and into a democracy. It will likely take nearly as long to restore the Republic. Thank God we stopped Cap and Trade... we can survive Hillary/Obamacare... but not that. Note: One of it biggest supporters... Enron. The things that supports keep spouting... “Remaining insured with parents till 26, no preexisting conditions, senior donut meds loophole fix... blah, blah blah..." All 10 pages of it can be passed in single initiative bills. We don’t need the rest of the 2K pages creating numerous new agencies and increasing bureaucracy. All they want is power and control, through STRUCTURE... Obama even said it on the Daily Show. "Progressive Structure" At 8:35 - http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-27-2010/barack-obama-pt--2 And here is Tom Harkin Further Explaining - Progressive Structure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfB3Bne2VQ Progressive Lies! They will be destroyed... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #183 February 3, 2011 QuoteSo, in other words you want to make it as easy as possible for the health insurers to fuck people over. Simply a horrible idea. Free market solutions can not be applied to health care insurance, because, as I have already stated, the profit motive is at odds with moral obligations. That is complete and utter bull shit. And Lasik eye surgery is a perfect example of how competition reduces cost... no insurance company covers the procedure. Also... if insurance companies are breaking the law... it is within the power of the Federal government to Regulate.... "Maintain Regularity Under the Law." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #184 February 3, 2011 More Progressive Admitions: from the Tides Foundation Public option is Trojan horse for Single Payer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sTfZJBYo1I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #185 February 3, 2011 Right from Obama's mouth... he wants a single payer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE Start with a public option... takes you to Single Payer. Can't get a Public Option? Then you do what Tom Harkin said. Psst. It's time... TO WAKE UP! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #186 February 3, 2011 QuoteRight from Obama's mouth... he wants a single payer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE Start with a public option... takes you to Single Payer. Can't get a Public Option? Then you do what Tom Harkin said. Psst. It's time... TO WAKE UP! So are you a staunch supporter of the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL option that has sucked up.. how many TRILLIONS over the last 50 years.??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #187 February 3, 2011 Nope, I'm a Constitutional Conservative as I have said before. And the Founders, wanted us to remained Neutral, defensive only... Switzerland style! We never should have gone into Iraq. I was totally for Afghanistan, as we were attacked... though, only if the full fighting force of the American Military was used. Go in, do the job, get the hell out. We didn't do that... War is hell, but sometimes necessary. A fast, efficient and brutal assault... to kill or capture Osama, was warranted. And it is the duty of our leaders and the military to end war as soon as possible, to spare lives... both military and civilian. What we are doing now... is a cluster fuck. But I'm not for pulling out... it would be worse. I would also disband/end funding/leave the UN... it was first called the League of Nations... brought about by our second Progressive president... Woodrow Wilson. The American people rejected it the first time around... but it was forced upon us the second time. Progressive learned from their mistakes. The LoN was fully and openly debated. The UN was not... Just like "Healthcare Reform"... behind close doors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #188 February 3, 2011 ObamaCare = HillaryCare http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=hdqGnz6UqG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #189 February 3, 2011 QuoteAs much as I hated the VA at one point in my life... They at LEAST took care of me and did not force me to pay thousands of dollars that they should have been covering. Due to injures I got while serving in the military I am allowed to go to the VA.... I found the coverage to be pathetic and the treatment options lacking. I pay for and use private HC and my health is much better. The VA would not allow certain drugs that my private doc could provide, the schedule they had me on was laughed at by the private doc.... My health got much better by going to the private HC. Seeing how the IRS is overpowering and full of regs not even lawyers and accountants totally understand. Seeing how the ATF is full of crosstalk and ignorance. Seeing the US Govt has used citizens for test subjects (Tuskegee syphilis experiment). And seeing how no Govt program has managed to not run into cost overruns and cutbacks. Seeing how Countries that have single payer are having so many problems paying for it..... I have zero faith that the US can run a program that is not full of restrictions, full of red tape, full of cost overruns, full of political BS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #190 February 3, 2011 Quotethe profit motive is at odds with moral obligations. So I take it that Phelps has it wrong - troops are dying in the Middle East because God Hates Profit! What's up with the religious shit coming from the left? Moral obligations is prima facie subjective religion. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #191 February 3, 2011 >ObamaCare = HillaryCare =RomneyCare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #192 February 3, 2011 Quote>ObamaCare = HillaryCare =RomneyCare Ya and they all suck"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #193 February 3, 2011 Quote What's up with the religious shit coming from the left? Moral obligations is prima facie subjective religion. Are we gonna start this again, what does morality have to do with religion? Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #194 February 3, 2011 Quote Quote Quote That's a consistent viewpoint. What would you do about the uninsured person who biffs a landing at the DZ and is screaming. Let's say the dz is not close to a metro area with a charity hospital. I'm not trying to trap; I'm really curious, because too often people want to have both EMTALA and a smug feeling that they're not paying for anyone else. It doesn't work that way. Wendy P. I just accrued a 60K balance - that I will pay off and feel pretty good that I payed for it. I don't have insurance. The bill will still be paid. And now you have your first "pre-existing condition" that will make sure that anything having to do with the challenges you now face with the diabetes will not be covered unless reforms actually do occur. ' . . . and if the dems would have left language in the bill to allow for corrections of the mistakes piece by piece, or part by part, instead of trying to insure all or nothing, just in case the powers shifted, the pre existing condition clause would still be in place. To my knowledge and from what I have been told by the hospital, Diabetes is not considered a pre existing condition anyway, kind of like hypertension, it's just a maintenance issue.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #195 February 3, 2011 ***To my knowledge and from what I have been told by the hospital, Diabetes is not considered a pre existing condition anyway, kind of like hypertension, it's just a maintenance issue. Quote Man.. are you in for an education. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #196 February 3, 2011 QuoteTo my knowledge and from what I have been told by the hospital, Diabetes is not considered a pre existing condition anyway, kind of like hypertension, it's just a maintenance issue. I am pretty sure that is not the case. What the hospital/doctors think is considered pre-existing and what the insurance companies actually do has no relationship at all. Here is my pre-existing condition story. I have had psoriasis most of my life. It is no big deal, Every few years I get a patch on my knee or elbow, I get some cream from the dermatologist and it goes away after a few weeks. When I last changed insurance companies a year or so ago, I listed that on the forms as I was supposed to. They came back and said that they would cover me but they were going to add in a ryder because of my psoriasis. OK, I think no big deal they won't cover my cream every few years, I can live with that. When I actually got the paperwork it said that they would not cover psoriasis or "ANY SKIN CONDITION". I called and spoke to them and asked a simple question, does that mean that if I get skin cancer you will not cover it. The answer was a resounding "that is correct it is a skin condition and we will not cover it". I was given the right to protest in writing and request it be re-reviewed which I did. The response was, officially it is not covered but we try to be reasonable so if you have skin cancer it will be reviewed at that time and we will determine then whether or not it will be covered. I was also told that after 12 months I could request that the ryder be removed but it was their decision about whether or not they would remove it. They also could not tell me what criteria they use to make that decision. First of all, I live in Florida where skin cancer is a serious threat and I am not covered for it. Second of all, this was after spending a year just trying to get coverage at all. I have money and was willing to pay but I still couldn't get coverage. I am self employed and I have a business partner who has leukemia, just try to get insurance coverage in that situation. I honestly don't know the answer but I can say without hesitation that the system we have in place now is broken!Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #197 February 3, 2011 Quote Quote To my knowledge and from what I have been told by the hospital, Diabetes is not considered a pre existing condition anyway, kind of like hypertension, it's just a maintenance issue. I am pretty sure that is not the case. What the hospital/doctors think is considered pre-existing and what the insurance companies actually do has no relationship at all. Here is my pre-existing condition story. I have had psoriasis most of my life. It is no big deal, Every few years I get a patch on my knee or elbow, I get some cream from the dermatologist and it goes away after a few weeks. When I last changed insurance companies a year or so ago, I listed that on the forms as I was supposed to. They came back and said that they would cover me but they were going to add in a ryder because of my psoriasis. OK, I think no big deal they won't cover my cream every few years, I can live with that. When I actually got the paperwork it said that they would not cover psoriasis or "ANY SKIN CONDITION". I called and spoke to them and asked a simple question, does that mean that if I get skin cancer you will not cover it. The answer was a resounding "that is correct it is a skin condition and we will not cover it". I was given the right to protest in writing and request it be re-reviewed which I did. The response was, officially it is not covered but we try to be reasonable so if you have skin cancer it will be reviewed at that time and we will determine then whether or not it will be covered. I was also told that after 12 months I could request that the ryder be removed but it was their decision about whether or not they would remove it. They also could not tell me what criteria they use to make that decision. First of all, I live in Florida where skin cancer is a serious threat and I am not covered for it. Second of all, this was after spending a year just trying to get coverage at all. I have money and was willing to pay but I still couldn't get coverage. I am self employed and I have a business partner who has leukemia, just try to get insurance coverage in that situation. I honestly don't know the answer but I can say without hesitation that the system we have in place now is broken! Agreed. As I stated above, if the dems that wrote the bill didn't make it an "All or Nothing" we would still have the good parts of the bill still in place.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #198 February 3, 2011 Quote >ObamaCare = HillaryCare =RomneyCare One difference though... ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal RomneyCare - Totally Legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #199 February 3, 2011 What company? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 5 #200 February 3, 2011 QuoteAgreed. As I stated above, if the dems that wrote the bill didn't make it an "All or Nothing" we would still have the good parts of the bill still in place.Unsure There is nothing good about this bill... it is a cluster fuck for the American people... power and control for the Feds. Anything that is "Good" (IE; those 10 pages), can be passed in one day by single initiative legislation. Do it the right way! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
