Wikileaks nomination for Nobel....

[wmw999 2,461]

I agree with both of those points. However, just as sometimes the country veers to the left or the right as a correction to previous behavior, someone coming in and shining a light periodically where it's been dark for a long time is probably a good thing.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[livendive 8]

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So...whose side do you stand with? Your country? Or the POS who leaked thousands of your countries confidential comminucations wih other countries?

I stand with my country, and the guy who's trying to keep it's government honest. Pro tip: You, me, and the rest of the folks in here are the country. Our government is a tool we use to keep things orderly. Sometimes the vacuum cleaner in your house needs a bit of preventative maintenance, or a few parts replaced...that doesn't mean you hate your house.

Blues,
Dave
USN, 86-92

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[freethefly 6]

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I never claimed to be "the ultimate patriot". You are assuming again.

Never said you claim to be. It is clear that you know zilch about the military. I do not buy your claim that you were turned away from serving. I went in with a birth defect and a very screwed up leg. My cousin joined and served with a collapsed chest. My niece was going to join and was cleared to do so. She has scoliosis (curved spine). She backed out at the last second (I'm happy she did.) I seriously doubt that you ever saw a recruiter.

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A little impossible to prove a person's actions that will happen in the future, don't you think?

Yet, you claim that relations are FUBAR! You say it is impossible to prove an action that will happen! Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

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Why don't you prove that relations are NOT hurt and that the international community is and forever will be a nicey-nice endeavor after all this.

Relations will always walk a thin line. Especially when certain countries tend to stab their allies in the back. The U.S. has stabbed several M.E. allies. Iraq being one of them. The U.S. was all buddy-buddy with Saddam, when it served a purpose. The same with the Taliban.
I much prefer that countries be upfront, instead of shaking hands while planning behind closed doors to overthrow each other.

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Yes. If you don't know whay then it is useless to try to explain it to you.

Oh, I know why. In the long run, it really does not matter what some dirt farmer thinks. It matters more what those in charge think. It's bad diplomacy to win over minds and hearts only to screw them when they no longer serve a purpose (think about Iraq, they're screwed.)

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Spoken like a true American.
NOT.

No different than the rhetoric that comes from all sides.
At least I served my country and at the time I believed what was said. The "truth" was nothing more than a lie.
Go get a clue.

I prefer that the government be honest and to practice what it preaches.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Under normal circumstances driving a car is not considered treason.
I understand where you are coming from....you are mad because you want everything the government says and does to be public. Well, buddy, that ain't gonna happen...ever. Get used to it, be a big boy, and quit whining because you weren't "in the loop".

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[shropshire 0]

You do get bent out of shape for fuck all reason - don't ya

It's got fuck all to do with you constitution, Assange, is an Australian so can't be a traitor to yanks-ville-usa.

Does he deserve a prize? No.

Has he put a big string stick into a hornets nest? - yes

Is it a good thing? probably.

Is it funny? - Oh fuck yes, especially when I read comments like yours.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,008]

>I understand where you are coming from....you are mad because you want
>everything the government says and does to be public. Well, buddy, that ain't
>gonna happen...ever.

It _did_ happen this time, at least to a limited extent. That's often a good thing.

>Get used to it, be a big boy, and quit whining because you weren't "in the loop".

I think you best get used to Wikileaks. They (and organizations like them) are here to stay, and no matter how angry you get, they're not going anywhere.

[tkhayes 348]

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Making everything that happens fully transparent is not always good. IMO.

I actually agree with that, but I also think that when you get 'caught', the transparency better include justification for what happened......

"Yes we mowed down these civilians with a helicopter gunship and here is exactly why we did that."

Not "OK, for showing that video, I am going to try and destroy you...."

Is there room for political assassinations? Probably. Osama Bin Laden for example.

But if we assassinate Hugo Chavas because Pat Robertson thinks it's Ok to do that, secret or not, that will not likely be justified in the long run.

That's the kind of secrecy that concerns me.

ANY movement of government towards a seccret state like the former Eastern Bloc countries troubles me. Secrets are bad. Just like unlimited power is bad.

So don't prosecute someone because they released the 'secrets'. If the secrets got leaked, then perhaps you are doing somethign wrong and perhaps you should re-examine your own internal structures and how and what secrets you keep.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I really don't care if you believe me or not. I stated my point that any American citizen who supports that piece of shit and his actions is a traitor. It is very clear which side of the line you are on.
BTW, of course it's clear I never served in the military...I told you I hadn't. It's also clear it wasn't what you expected. That doesn't mean your assessment is correct. I have a few friends who retired from the military. They were very satisfied with their years of service. What happened to you? Did they ask you to actually follow orders and do something other than lay around smoking weed?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[normiss 806]

Yea, I was somewhat implying the same thing I think...as in the "it usually comes out anyway" comment. I guess those would typically be 'leaks' of some sort anyway.
I guess I'm just concerned of truly classified information getting out - I see that as a risk to national security. Maybe it's a fine line sometimes.

[popsjumper 2]

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What about the disinformation he put out?

what about the doctored reports and the lies?

I am unaware of any "doctored reports and the lies."
Cite, please.

I assume you consider Michael Moore credible?

Man! Are YOU off base!
You cite THAT as support for your contention that Wikileaks doctored reports and lies and such?

First, Do you attribute those "doctored reports and lies" to Wikileaks? To Assange? Do you think Assange wrote them? Do you think Wikileaks is responsible for the content of those doctored reports and lies?????? Do you think it's Wikileaks job to verify all, or any, of those reports?

If you answered yes to any of those questions, you miss the entire point of it all.

As for your cite:
"Terrorize liars by releasing material that, according to Michael Moore, is possibly riddled with lies? My irony addiction is hereby satisfied for the foreseeable future.

**Written by Doug Powers"

Your Mr. Powers has no clue whatsoever what irony is.
The released reports, those written by liars, expose them for being the liars they are....there's your terrorization. There's no irony there.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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...you are mad because you want everything the government says and does to be public. Well, buddy, that ain't gonna happen...ever...

Which is exactly why Wikileaks and others like that need to exist.

Are you one of those who wants to shoot, or hang, Assange?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jakee 1,500]

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What about the disinformation he put out?

what about the doctored reports and the lies?

I am unaware of any "doctored reports and the lies."
Cite, please.

I assume you consider Michael Moore credible?

That story does not contain so much as an allegation that Wikileaks doctored any reports.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[freethefly 6]

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I really don't care if you believe me or not. I stated my point that any American citizen who supports that piece of shit and his actions is a traitor. It is very clear which side of the line you are on.
BTW, of course it's clear I never served in the military...I told you I hadn't. It's also clear it wasn't what you expected. That doesn't mean your assessment is correct. I have a few friends who retired from the military. They were very satisfied with their years of service. What happened to you? Did they ask you to actually follow orders and do something other than lay around smoking weed?

Hull Maintenance Technician Second Class Petty Officer. Honorable Discharge. 80-84

By the way, I grew up in the military and knew what to expect. What i didn't expect was a President who sold weapons to an enemy in order to fund a war in South America.
I'm satisfied that I joined and served honorably. Now, go screw your lame excuse for why you never served your country.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Its called Spina Bifida.
Trust me when I say I wish I COULD screw it.
I think you know what you can do with your comments.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I would not hesitate to put a noose around that post's neck.
You are wrong. Very, very wrong.
Confidentiality is an absolute must in many dealings of state. Do you think it is necessary for the public to know the details of covert intelligence missions? Of negotiations to capture known terrorists?
There are many instances where public disclosure at any time past, present, or future can seriously undermine any good that came from those dealings with no benefits from such disclosure.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[wmw999 2,461]

You can go too far in the direction of "needing" secrecy. The occasional reset in the direction of openness is good. Yeah, mistakes might be made, but as things get more and more secret, other mistakes are never found, reviewed, or learned from.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[muff528 3]

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....just enough factual content to trick people who really want to believe that his BS is true.

That is pretty much what I said. He tells the truth, just to an extreme. I actually really like the guy - it is sarcasm (my favorite) taken to an extreme on video.

Yes, he has factual content - glad you pointed that out. And he makes a good point.

Your 'propaganda' is another man's 'agenda for change'.

If Michael Moore is propaganda, then what does that make Glenn Beck? Touche...

The difference (as I see it through admittedly slightly conservative goggles) is that Moore seems to manipulate the presentation of "the facts" (not necessarily the facts themselves) to advance and propagate his world view and to sway his audience's opinion. Snippets of audio and video are edited or taken out of context to give weight to a message he is trying to convey. To me that is the definition of propaganda. OTOH, I have not heard Beck actually misrepresent "the facts" or even take things out of context. He is usually very careful about vetting things. Where he might be a little over the line is in his analysis, commentary and interpretation of events and his apocalyptic predictions. ...not really "propaganda" but maybe a little alarmist. I'm trying to give an apolitical response and look only at how the message is presented, but like I said, a little bias will always color someone's observations. We all seem to hear what we want to hear.

Also, maybe unrelated, one of my pet peeves: The ridiculous condemnation of Fox News as "in the tank" for Republicans/Conservatives. There is a very heavy contingent of conservative punditry on "the Fox News Channel" ....but, that's not Fox News. I suppose a weak-minded viewer might mistake the editorial page for news but "the news" itself is not presented by Beck, Hannity or O'Reilly. There is an actual news department that is really quite balanced in its reporting. Some other news sources really do insert editorial commentary in their new broadcasts, ...sometimes editorializing on a story while it is being presented as news. Fox has never pretended that its "opinion section" is reporting the news.

[freethefly 6]

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Its called Spina Bifida.
Trust me when I say I wish I COULD screw it.
I think you know what you can do with your comments.

I take it that you have the mildest form SB? (Given that you skydive and move around on pipe)
A friend, his daughter has the Myelo form of SB. She'll be in a wheelchair for life.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[DaVinci 0]

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attaboy - STAND behind that constitution......

And when are you going to start supporting the 2nd??????

[DaVinci 0]

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If Michael Moore is propaganda, then what does that make Glenn Beck? Touche...

Both morons.... But I look at the both that way, you seem to want to demonize one while thinking the other is correct.

[popsjumper 2]

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I would not hesitate to put a noose around that post's neck.
You are wrong. Very, very wrong.
Confidentiality is an absolute must in many dealings of state. Do you think it is necessary for the public to know the details of covert intelligence missions? Of negotiations to capture known terrorists?
There are many instances where public disclosure at any time past, present, or future can seriously undermine any good that came from those dealings with no benefits from such disclosure.

So....It reads as though you think our g'ment should have a free ticket to do anything and everything it thinks it can do at anytime, for any reason.

It reads as though you believe the end justifies the means in all cases. In that case, why have laws of any sort if even your own g'ment doesn't adhere to them?

Yes, you will continue to think that way....all the way up to the point where it adversely affects YOU. You'll be singing a different song then, I'm sure.

You'll continue to vote for Mr. X in the blind not knowing that Mr. X is cleaning your closet all the while.

I am sooooooo glad you are not running the country.

Me? I'm more of the mind that g'ment should be run above the table, not below it. Deal the cards and play them as they lie. Screw the players who pull one out of their sleeve.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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That is the rhetorical line all the opponents like to use - "putting lives in danger", but no one can name a single incident where it happened - because it didn't[.reply]

Sad, but true. It's simple unthinking regurgitation and they can't recognize it.

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yeah, I guess I am a traitor because I want my government, military, official held accountable for their actions......

Holy Crap! Ya' Think?
Give it up....they can't hear you talking because of that loud *WHOOOOOOSH* going over their heads. It's the concept of accountability that escapes them.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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[funjumper101 15]

The right wing nitwits seem to be getting dumber and dumber.

Too dumb to tell the difference between a publisher and a provider of information.

Too dumb to be able to tell the difference between a citizen of the USA and a citzen of Australia, with regard to treason and what treason actually is.

Whipped into a righteous froth by the Faux news and scumbags like RimJob and O'really clueless, right wing nitwits spew ridiculous crap about treason and patriotism in Speaker's Corner.

I can totally understand why right wing conservatives hate the USA and the government in general. Look at how badly the US educational system has failed them. They never learned how to think independently, analyse information, and synthesize the information into complex thoughts. All they can manage to do is repeat what they are authoritively told. Even when what they are told is easily proved to be completely untrue, they belive it anyway. Their mantra is "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!".

[normiss 806]

That fine line is so very tough to define though isn't it?

[tkhayes 348]

I do support the second amendment, but i also recognize that the country has a GUN PROBLEM. There is a difference - too bad you cannot see that.

I also support the first amendment, but I have a problem with people that spout off rhetoric and call for the assassination of the President just because he is black.....
is there something wrong with that?

It is actually OK to point out things that are wrong with the Constitution as well BTW. It is far from the perfect doctrine - given that it has been amended so many times....

Probably time for a few updates