Wikileaks nomination for Nobel....

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't.
Have a nice day.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't.
Have a nice day.

cut n run, pony!

[popsjumper 2]

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Severally and corporately, we go to great lengths to prevent the unnecessary loss of lives.

M'kay. That sounds good.

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I'm not sure why you hate the military,

bad, very bad assumption, my friend.

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but I assure you that your paranoia is unfounded.

Again, M'kay...that sounds good.

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Bad decisions are sometimes made. Mistakes happen.

More often than you care to admit but that's another story. Maybe a bad decision that was published by Wikileaks?

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But it is the policy and practice of every level of the military to preserve life wherever we can.

Sayin' it sounds good. Doing it is tougher. Glossing over it with false assurances as if all is well in the world is well, false. So again, M'kay.

Again...relate all this to the topic at hand; we're talking Wikileaks. And tell us how you can justify your opinion of vilifying the messenger.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

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PFC Bradley Manning, deluxe fancy boy, is in the U.S. ARMY. He leaked confidential possibly secret military communications or information to a whistle blower. Therefore, Manning is a military traitor. It is a military concern.

The whistle blower, Julian Assange, is an Australian citizen. Australia is an ally of the United States of America. He is a civilian traitor. He corroborated the military treasonous acts.

It is not a difficult issue for me to comprehend.

The friend of my enemy is my enemy.

Yes but your 'comprehension' of the world is pretty fucked up,

again your PERCEPTIONS and your OPINIONS, but most of us want to see open open government with transparency. Most people, even republicans and Christians want to see a fair trial.. no one is actually interested in lynching on own on 'hunch'

[tkhayes 348]

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I really hope I have missed the context of this.

I have been US Army over 26 years. We are trained to avoid non-combatant casualties. It is part of our mandatory training on Law of War annually. It is part of our prep to deploy. It is part of my training as a planner to avoid cultural sites, populated areas and all manner of collateral damage.

In practice, Soldiers routinely accept greater risks, injury and death to protect non-combatants. Our enemies use this against us regularly. Women and children are used against us because our enemies know it is in our nature to protect those weaker than ourselves. It is part of what drives us to do what we do.

If I understand this post and have not taken it out of context, I am more greatly offended than words can express.

I am sadly reminded that my enemies understand me and my brothers and sisters at arms much better than those we protect.

And even I, as a pacifist, can appreciate the training that you have received and the actions that you go through. But the reality is that the US military, in its campaign(s), annihilates tens of thousands of civilians in the name of security, war, whatever you call it.

I actually appreciate the soldier and the fighter and the infantryman, on the front lines. My objection is why you are there in the first place.

My 'support' of the troops is to bring you home, not to have you over there killing people in a war that is/was a lie and then to pay for the reconstruction of countries that we have destroyed.

[popsjumper 2]

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Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't.
Have a nice day.

Hey! It' the American way, right?
The decision maker is whoever is in power at the time, though...not us citizens.

So...you still want your decision makers doing stupid shit without you knowing it and you only finding out about it when it comes back to bite you in the ass.

No thanks..I'd rather know about it beforehand. Preferably up front and honest. Maybe I could do something to prevent the stupid shit from happening in the first place. Otherwise, through Wikileaks or similar if necessary.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Popcorn! That's what I need!

Wendy P.

I'm betting that you are out of popcorn and bored to death by now....probably finding soap operas more interesting, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

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Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't.
Have a nice day.

cut n run, pony!

Oh Oh ask me .. I love anagrams

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Yep, I was right. You want to pick and chose what rights you can have and those others can't.
Have a nice day.

Hey! It' the American way, right?
The decision maker is whoever is in power at the time, though...not us citizens.

So...you still want your decision makers doing stupid shit without you knowing it and you only finding out about it when it comes back to bite you in the ass.

No thanks..I'd rather know about it beforehand. Preferably up front and honest. Maybe I could do something to prevent the stupid shit from happening in the first place. Otherwise, through Wikileaks or similar if necessary.

So we can assume you would have been in favor of the planning for the invasion of Europe during WWII to have been public so people like you could look them over and stop them if you didn't like it?
Dream on.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[RonD1120 62]

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And you want to shoot the messenger?

You and TK are making an extreme assumption.

I want Manning and Assange brought to trial for their treason.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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Most people, even republicans and Christians want to see a fair trial.. no one is actually interested in lynching on own on 'hunch'

I want to see both Manning and Assange given a fair trial. Manning should receive a courts martial. Assange should be tried in a civilian court.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

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And you want to shoot the messenger?

You and TK are making an extreme assumption.

I want Manning and Assange brought to trial for their treason.

You still don't get it do you?

Assange has comitted NO treason or any crimes 9as far as I can tell) in YOUR country. SITCC

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[RonD1120 62]

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Quote

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And you want to shoot the messenger?

You and TK are making an extreme assumption.

I want Manning and Assange brought to trial for their treason.

You still don't get it do you?

Assange has comitted NO treason or any crimes 9as far as I can tell) in YOUR country. SITCC

I want him so charged and brought to trial.

What is SITCC?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I want Manning and Assange brought to trial for their treason.

Assange cannot be guilty of treason by definition, as he owes no allegiance to this country. His actions as a publisher are protected under the first amendment. What do you wnat him charged with?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[davjohns 1]

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I really hope I have missed the context of this.

I have been US Army over 26 years. We are trained to avoid non-combatant casualties. It is part of our mandatory training on Law of War annually. It is part of our prep to deploy. It is part of my training as a planner to avoid cultural sites, populated areas and all manner of collateral damage.

In practice, Soldiers routinely accept greater risks, injury and death to protect non-combatants. Our enemies use this against us regularly. Women and children are used against us because our enemies know it is in our nature to protect those weaker than ourselves. It is part of what drives us to do what we do.

If I understand this post and have not taken it out of context, I am more greatly offended than words can express.

I am sadly reminded that my enemies understand me and my brothers and sisters at arms much better than those we protect.

And even I, as a pacifist, can appreciate the training that you have received and the actions that you go through. But the reality is that the US military, in its campaign(s), annihilates tens of thousands of civilians in the name of security, war, whatever you call it.

I actually appreciate the soldier and the fighter and the infantryman, on the front lines. My objection is why you are there in the first place.

My 'support' of the troops is to bring you home, not to have you over there killing people in a war that is/was a lie and then to pay for the reconstruction of countries that we have destroyed.

I appreciate what you are saying. Just be careful not to blame the sword for the actions of the swordsman. I am sworn to obey the orders of those you elect, so long as they are not illegal, unethical or immoral. (You can debate whether war is moral ad nauseum)

What some people fail to realize is that those of us who wage war as a profession are rarely advocates of it. We know better than most how horrible it can be. We are the ones who have to kill and bleed. We spend months away from those we love. We return to pick up the pieces.

Then, we get to listen to those who have never been there tell us how it really was...

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[popsjumper 2]

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So we can assume you would have been in favor of the planning for the invasion of Europe during WWII to have been public so people like you could look them over and stop them if you didn't like it?
Dream on.

Lame as can be. OK...you have nothing, I recognize that. Yes, yes, you're going to come back with "secret stuff allowed the Normandy invasion to be successful".
Really? That would be a Capt. Obvious statement, eh?


Since you can only think in the extremes, then yes.
I'd have total openness and honesty over total hiding and deception any day. Evidently, you cannot grasp the concept of "middle ground"....the gray areas, if you will. You cannot grasp the concept of how openness can prevent prevent the lies to, and the deception of, your own fellow citizens.

Evidently, you are unable to understand that the world could operate on some premise other than secretive deception.

Evidently, secretive deception has been burned into the brain so deeply that any other method of operation is foreign and not understandable.

Evidently you prefer to remain blind to other possibilities.

A foreign g'ment can fool an ambassador or more. If the communication were open to all of us, I somehow think that somebody, somewhere along the line would NOT be fooled and would see the light. That could never happen if nobody knew what was going on.

OK. You need say no more. I truly see where you are coming from.

I am not trying to change your opinion. I've been giving you food for thought but you've made it obvious that you don't want that. Have fun with it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

1. You probably wont get what you want - (nor should you - I reckon)

2. A typo

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

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Then, we get to listen to those who have never been there tell us how it really was...

Tell me about it. I got banned from SC for 2 weeks for responding to one of those bozos.

Well, I could have responded politely....nah.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RonD1120 62]

Oh, now I get it. You and TK want Utopia. No sweat, let's get right on that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

It seems that he suffers from 'My country, Right or Wong' syndrome.

It's only treatable when you get shafted by said country (or by Growing the fuck up) otherwise the patient, when looking directly ahead, sees only a high-contrast mono-chromed world - but nothing in their peripheral vision due to the Blinkers,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

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And you want to shoot the messenger?

You and TK are making an extreme assumption.

I want Manning and Assange brought to trial for their treason.

You DO understand that "shoot the messenger" is a figure of speech here, right?
shoot the messenger = brought to trial

Not being a legal-beagle, I still don't understand how an non-citizen, non-resident can be charged with treason in this country.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 806]

Or given first amendment rights?

[popsjumper 2]

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Oh, now I get it. You and TK want Utopia. No sweat, let's get right on that.

Sorry, Ron. You don't quite get it yet.

"Since you can only think in the extremes, then yes.
I'd have total openness and honesty over total hiding and deception any day. Evidently, you cannot grasp the concept of "middle ground"....the gray areas, if you will. "

I guess you missed that part.


But to address your misstatement...
I don't see a problem with striving to make things better. "Get right on that" is the right way to go.
Are you really happy with the way things are now?
Status quo is a way of life?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Or given first amendment rights?

Rhetorical question?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Assange cannot be guilty of treason by definition, as he owes no allegiance to this country. His actions as a publisher are protected under the first amendment. What do you wnat him charged with?

I want him charged for not being American.