Wikileaks nomination for Nobel....

[RonD1120 62]

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Oh, now I get it. You and TK want Utopia. No sweat, let's get right on that.

Sorry, Ron. You don't quite get it yet.

"Since you can only think in the extremes, then yes.
I'd have total openness and honesty over total hiding and deception any day. Evidently, you cannot grasp the concept of "middle ground"....the gray areas, if you will. "

I guess you missed that part.


But to address your misstatement...
I don't see a problem with striving to make things better. "Get right on that" is the right way to go.
Are you really happy with the way things are now?
Status quo is a way of life?

I know that this world is not going to get better until Jesus Christ returns and establishes His millennial reign. This conclusion is derived from eschatology. In my lifetime there have not been any major improvements other than technological. Things continue to go downhill. Therefore, we must deal with the bad guys, read evil, with extreme prejudice. It is what it is.

Bottom line, the SC is nothing but opinion. Nothing posted here does anything. It is all vent, rave, rant, praise and laugh. No one here, I believe, has any effect on the outcome of the lives of Manning and/or Assange. I would simply like to see them both spend the rest of their worthless lives in prison.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

Jeeze ... if you had to put everyone that posted shite on the internet, in prison for the rest of your lives ... it's going to one jolly big gaol....

P.S I'll save you a seat

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Southern_Man 0]

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. No one here, I believe, has any effect on the outcome of the lives of Manning and/or Assange. I would simply like to see them both spend the rest of their worthless lives in prison.

What would Assange spend the rest of his life in prison for? What crime would he be charged with and convicted of?

I keep asking this question and not getting any answers.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[shropshire 0]

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. No one here, I believe, has any effect on the outcome of the lives of Manning and/or Assange. I would simply like to see them both spend the rest of their worthless lives in prison.

What would Assange spend the rest of his life in prison for? What crime would he be charged with and convicted of?

I keep asking this question and not getting any answers.

+1



I guess that we're letting the facts get in the way a good lynchin'

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

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What would Assange spend the rest of his life in prison for? What crime would he be charged with and convicted of?

I keep asking this question and not getting any answers.

SkyDekker nailed it. Did you miss it?
Charge him with not being an American!
(OK forgive me...I thought it was funny as hell....in a good way 'Dekker)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Good stuff, Ron. We can agree to disagree and let it go.
No hard feelings at all.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[muff528 3]

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. No one here, I believe, has any effect on the outcome of the lives of Manning and/or Assange. I would simply like to see them both spend the rest of their worthless lives in prison.

What would Assange spend the rest of his life in prison for? What crime would he be charged with and convicted of?

I keep asking this question and not getting any answers.

IMO, subversion would fit nicely ...especially when the "harmed" country is at war and the published documents are at the very least sensitive diplomatic communications. The theft and release of the documents to Assange by a U.S. soldier who was entrusted with their security may also suggest a conspiracy to commit a subversive act. It comes to mind that he might be complicit in espionage, too. Maybe not.

[RonD1120 62]

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What would Assange spend the rest of his life in prison for? What crime would he be charged with and convicted of?

I keep asking this question and not getting any answers.

Well, I do not know how the criminal justice system works in Australia. My thoughts are aiding and abetting the conspiracy to commit treason. The treason charge falls to Manning.

Assange could be held at Gitmo with his kind while charges get sorted out and who actually has jurisdiction.

Manning has an ideal situation. If convicted and sentenced to life in prison he would have room, board, clothing and medical paid for. Plus, he could have all the boyfriends he could handle. Looks like trying to get even with the U.S.ARMY for demoting him was a perfect career move.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

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Jeeze ... if you had to put everyone that posted shite on the internet, in prison for the rest of your lives ... it's going to one jolly big goal....

P.S I'll save you a seat

There you go with that pesky oddball spelling again.
SHIT! and JAIL!
(thank you for not including the dreaded maths.)


Oh...do try to move over a little, you're crowding MY seat even after I said. "That was kick-ass! Who can we call for bail money?"

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RonD1120 62]

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Good stuff, Ron. We can agree to disagree and let it go.
No hard feelings at all.

I'm there. Have a good day.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Southern_Man 0]

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IMO, subversion would fit nicely ...especially when the "harmed" country is at war and the published documents are at the very least sensitive diplomatic communications. The theft and release of the documents to Assange by a U.S. soldier who was entrusted with their security may also suggest a conspiracy to commit a subversive act. It comes to mind that he might be complicit in espionage, too. Maybe not.

I can't find that there is a crime called subversion in the United States. Moreover that wikipedia article that you linked to indicates that the essence of subversion is advocating the overthrow of a government. I don't believe Assange did that. Frankly, I'm not a lawyer and didn't spend hours searching but I did do some searching and I don't think the relevant parts of the U.S. Code apply to what Assange did since he did not incite or encourage the overthrow of the government.


The closest things I can find indicate:



Article 2383, "Rebellion or insurrection", of the US Code:[6] Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. As well as Article 2385, "Advocating overthrow of Government by force or violence"[7] Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Southern_Man 0]

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Well, I do not know how the criminal justice system works in Australia. My thoughts are aiding and abetting the conspiracy to commit treason. The treason charge falls to Manning.

Assange could be held at Gitmo with his kind while charges get sorted out and who actually has jurisdiction.

I have seen absolutely no evidence that Assange was part of any conspiracy. I have not really commented on Bradley. his is clearly a very different case with a long history of jurisprudence behind it. Clearly what he did was illegal and he can be prosecuted.

I have found one case under the Bush Administration when a private citizen was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 with simply receiving classified information. It is unclear whether such a charge could be brought against 1. a journalist and 2. a foreigner who does not owe any allegiance to the U.S. Indeed, the U.S. congress apparently does not think it is applicable since they made an attempt to pass the SHIELD act specifically to criminalize Assange's actions.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[muff528 3]

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IMO, subversion would fit nicely ...especially when the "harmed" country is at war and the published documents are at the very least sensitive diplomatic communications. The theft and release of the documents to Assange by a U.S. soldier who was entrusted with their security may also suggest a conspiracy to commit a subversive act. It comes to mind that he might be complicit in espionage, too. Maybe not.

I can't find that there is a crime called subversion in the United States. Moreover that wikipedia article that you linked to indicates that the essence of subversion is advocating the overthrow of a government. I don't believe Assange did that. Frankly, I'm not a lawyer and didn't spend hours searching but I did do some searching and I don't think the relevant parts of the U.S. Code apply to what Assange did since he did not incite or encourage the overthrow of the government.


The closest things I can find indicate:



Article 2383, "Rebellion or insurrection", of the US Code:[6] Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. As well as Article 2385, "Advocating overthrow of Government by force or violence"[7] Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

Yes, I quickly looked at Chapter 115 and "by force" seems to be the main idea there. I was mainly looking, in the wiki article, at the sentence, "All willful acts that are intended to be detrimental to the best interests of the government and that do not fall into the categories of treason, sedition, sabotage, or espionage are placed in the category of subversive activity." Art.2383 (which you cited above) might be stretched to apply. ("...or gives aid or comfort..."). Also, there may be other laws that could "backhandedly" address "subversion". I dunno. I'm sure it's being looked into.

[kelpdiver 2]

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So we can assume you would have been in favor of the planning for the invasion of Europe during WWII to have been public so people like you could look them over and stop them if you didn't like it?
Dream on.

So a more suitable WW2 reference would be the matter of what the Allies knew about the concentration camps. The storyline is that only as the Allied forces overran Germany in 1945 did the world discover the horror of the Holocaust. But it's not a stretch to ask how they couldn't figure it out, given the large amount of rail stock going to these camps. And lo, only a couple years later the Jews got Israel! Well, the ones that lived.

Leaking memos that revealed the depth of knowledge by FDR, Churchill, Stalin (well less him, we know he was a total blood thirsty bastard) would certainly cause damage, yet reveal the truth.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough? i hope so.
You, on the other hand, continue to insist that all should be public. It seems that YOU are the one who cannot grasp the idea that there is a middle ground somewhere that stays away fro the extremes.
Now, if by some miracle you can actually comprehend what a compromise is, then who do you think should be the judge of what is released and what isn't? I am no more qualified than the next person to make those decisions yet you seem content to allow Assange, a man you know very little about, to make those decisions for you. Oh, wait....he didn't decide. He just published everything he was given without regard to content. How quaint.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough?

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers.

[popsjumper 2]

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I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough? i hope so.

You are backtracking now.

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You, on the other hand, continue to insist that all should be public. It seems that YOU are the one who cannot grasp the idea that there is a middle ground somewhere that stays away fro the extremes.

Not having read the comments, you don't know what to think.


Your reasoning is wandering. You comment without reading nor understanding and your posts are without merit and you insist on using snide, childish remarks.
Not a great way to discuss.

Thanks for playing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Leaking memos that revealed the depth of knowledge by FDR, Churchill, Stalin (well less him, we know he was a total blood thirsty bastard) would certainly cause damage, yet reveal the truth.

What they fail to understand is that in a more open and honest g'ment operation, the "damage" would be to the ones playing the "let's keep it secret and we can do whatever we want" game.

Their only point of frame of reference is that "game" as it's played today and any other frame is foreign and out of their sphere of awareness.

Nobody can make them change their mind.
Hell, apparently nobody can even get them to consider other scenarios than today's current game playing.

It is what it is. Not everybody is willing to do the right thing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wmw999 2,461]

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I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such.

The problem I see with that statement is who gets to decide what's criminal or corrupt -- that same government?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 221]

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I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such.

The problem I see with that statement is who gets to decide what's criminal or corrupt -- that same government?

Wendy P.

It is an ideal with no backing or logic.
It is a feel good idea.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough?

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers.

I never said that. if you think I did, post it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Not backtracking or wandering. If anybody is it is you.
I have already stated many times that there is a middle ground. You won't be happy until everything is out in the open.
Well, sorry Bubba, it ain't gonna happen. And that is perfectly ok because there are a lot of things best kept out of the public view. Things that are perfectly legal and ethical. But you can't fathom how something can be legal and secret at the same time.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough?

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers.

I never said that. if you think I did, post it.

Post 241:

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Yes, he got off easy.

[popsjumper 2]

The reply is gonna be good...really good.
Wait for it....wait for it....

I'm done with keying him.
Hard to hit a moving target.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239