Wikileaks nomination for Nobel....

[popsjumper 2]

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The problem I see with that statement is who gets to decide what's criminal or corrupt -- that same government?

Wendy P.

Supreme Court?
Does it violate current laws? Yes, No?
I currently tend to think that acts of corruption also fall into the realm of illegal activity in some shape or form.
Note: The Justice Department is NOT the SCOTUS.

Like this kind of stuff from 12/2010:

"LAGOS, Nigeria — Nigeria's anti-corruption agency on Tuesday charged former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney over a bribery scheme involving oil services firm Halliburton Co. during the time he served as its top executive, a spokesman said.

The charges stem from a case involving as much as $180 million allegedly paid in bribes to Nigerian officials, said Femi Babafemi, a spokesman for the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission.

Halliburton and other firms allegedly paid the bribes to win a contract to build a $6 billion liquefied natural gas plant in Nigeria's oil-rich southern delta, he said.

Terrence O'Donnell, a lawyer representing Cheney, denied the allegations.

"The Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission investigated that joint venture extensively and found no suggestion of any impropriety by Dick Cheney in his role of CEO of Halliburton,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/dick-cheney-bribery-charg_n_793312.html

Nigeria says bribery happened, US. Justice says no impropriety happened. Hell, I don't know...maybe bribery is proper to some people and institutions.

Oh no....say it ain't so!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

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Oh, now I get it. You and TK want Utopia. No sweat, let's get right on that.

and then:

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I know that this world is not going to get better until Jesus Christ returns....

talk about utopia - am i the only one that finds this to be hysterical?

[tkhayes 348]

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Assange could be held at Gitmo with his kind while charges get sorted out and who actually has jurisdiction.

[sarcasm] Absolutely - let's put everyone we don't like into a fake prison and hold them there without charge until we can 'figure out' who has jurisdiction [/sarcasm]

Another large part of the constitution trampled on by so-called patriots.....

[popsjumper 2]

TK...I think we're wasting our breath. Most other constitution supporters have given up already....I see no point in continuing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I read about four lines from your reply and realized reading any further would be wasted time since you, quite obviously, have not kept up with what I have been saying all along. To repeat, AGAIN, I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such. Plain enough?

not plain enough, when you continue to maintain that Ellsburg should have suffered more for releasing the Pentagon Papers.

I never said that. if you think I did, post it.

Post 241:

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Yes, he got off easy.

Right, he got off easy. He could have spent a lot of time in jail. But nowhere did I say he should have. You decided to interpret my reply that way.
Hell, OJ got off easy. Clinton got off easy.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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TK...I think we're wasting our breath. Most other constitution supporters have given up already....I see no point in continuing.

Why don't you and TK do what I have already done and state just what you think should be made public and what shouldn't. Hell, all I'm asking for is your opinion. Thus far all anybody can gather from your posts is that you want a perfect world where there are no secrets and no need for any, but i am asking for a realistic answer that makes sense in todays world, not some Utopia.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The reply is gonna be good...really good.
Wait for it....wait for it....

it was lame - I knew it would be. Guy can't even stand up for his own convictions.

[tkhayes 348]

belgian-draft-whatever:

nowhere in this thread am/was I required to answer to your questions of what should or should not be made public so i will not respond to that. I started this thread and is what meant to be CONGRATULATORY in nature to the nobel nomination.

I am for open government and transparency. Secrecy and murder, covert ops, etc. would be 'perfect in a perfect world'. I want the bad guys dead too.

But I do not want innocent people sacrificed for the greater cause.

If the drug dealer gets killed 'cause he's bad, then great. If the police get to decide who is good and bad at their own whim and then execute several people amoungst the drug dealer - some of whom are innocent - i want no part of it.

I have no problem with Assange and what he has leaked. 'cause I believe he has enough common sense and he's a pretty smart dude to decide what should and should not be released (his organization et al, not just him). If he was a dumb-ass, he would not have been nominated for a Nobel. It's hat simple.

It's not up to me to decide what should be leaked or public or whatever. I want OPEN TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT. period.

The people demand it. The Constitution requires it. Secrets just eventually rank us right up there with the eastern bloc in the 60's.

[sarcasm] right where we want to be [/sarcasm]

[normiss 806]

Much like the idea that Assange has the right, trust, integrity, and the common sense to make the decision about what should be released.
Makes the conspiracy theorists and the un-trusters feel better.

[popsjumper 2]

I'm done with it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 806]

no we haven't...

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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The reply is gonna be good...really good.
Wait for it....wait for it....

it was lame - I knew it would be. Guy can't even stand up for his own convictions.

Hey Buddy.....you were trying to get me to say I thought he deserved more punishment during that entire exchange. Now you're just pissed off because I wouldn't.
And you call my reply lame.

I know what my convictions are. It is obvious you don't know where yours lay. Hell, none of you three can even answer a simple question about where you think the line should be drawn.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[champu 1]

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I have no problem with releasing information that exposes a criminal and corrupt government or members of such.

The problem I see with that statement is who gets to decide what's criminal or corrupt -- that same government?

Wendy P.

The government is not that homogenous, as I'm sure you know. And by virtue of the fact that Manning was "military people" that's effectively what happened here.

[no longer directed at you Wendy, your post just motivated me to post to the thread again...]

The classification system has ways of protecting whistle blowers and providing channels for non-advocate review of questionable activities. I've pointed to the sections of the E.O. that state this but ctrl+a, ctrl+c, ctrl+v on to a thumb drive and giving it to the press is absolutely unacceptable even if 0.01% of the information is about war crimes. Being too lazy to actually pick out things to blow the whistle on is not an excuse to not follow the rules.

I've never said that Assange should be tried for treason (which is ridiculous) or have some cryptic sexual allegations against him trumped up in an effort to discredit. All I've said is I think he's an ass who would rather pander to his fans than address concerns about what he did, who doesn't actually care if he releases documents that don't involve any illegal activiity but embarrass people, damage relationships, or put people/locations in danger, and whose nomination for a Nobel prize is absurd.

[RonD1120 62]

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Assange could be held at Gitmo with his kind while charges get sorted out and who actually has jurisdiction.

[sarcasm] Absolutely - let's put everyone we don't like into a fake prison and hold them there without charge until we can 'figure out' who has jurisdiction [/sarcasm]

Not everyone, I am referring to one person who reached the center of the world stage by committing cyber terrorism.

But you understand where I am coming from. You simply need, crave the last word. So take it. I doubt if I return to this thread.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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I know what my convictions are. It is obvious you don't know where yours lay. Hell, none of you three can even answer a simple question about where you think the line should be drawn.

Don't you know, the left wing liberals thrive on the "shifting, whispering sands." Concrete decisions based on solid foundations of belief scare the $#!+ out of them. Mental masturbation is their most favored hobby.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

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Not everyone, I am referring to one person who reached the center of the world stage by committing cyber terrorism.

Speaking of cyber terrorism...how's this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-us-bank-and-the-secret-plan-to-destroy-wikileaks-2215059.html

The US bank and the secret plan to destroy WikiLeaks

(The title will make some happy. The text won't.)


"Hacktivists, journalists and bloggers have since pored over the emails and discovered what appears to be a proposal that was intended to be pitched to the Bank of America to sabotage WikiLeaks and discredit journalists who are sympathetic to the whistle-blowing website."

"The presentation, which has been seen by The Independent, recommends a multi-pronged assault on WikiLeaks including deliberately submitting false documents to the website to undermine its credibility, pioneering cyber attacks to expose who the leakers to WikiLeaks are and going after sympathetic journalists."

"One of those mentioned is Glenn Greenwald, a pro-WikiLeaks reporter in the US. "

"A separate email written by Mr Barr to a Palantir employee suggests that security companies should track and intimidate people who donate to WikiLeaks. Security firms, Mr Barr wrote, "need to get people to understand that if they support the organisation we will come after them. Transaction records are easily identifiable."



You know what this reminds me of?

Nixon's CREEP and the dirty tricks they were busted for.

Note the planned attacks not only on Wikileaks but on individual U.S. citizens. I would be very surprised if our g'ment took any interest in this at all with an eye towards prosecuting these underhanded, criminal activities.

You want conspiracy? You got it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Belgian_Draft 0]

That is freakin' HILARIOUS!!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[RonD1120 62]

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Not everyone, I am referring to one person who reached the center of the world stage by committing cyber terrorism.

Speaking of cyber terrorism...how's this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-us-bank-and-the-secret-plan-to-destroy-wikileaks-2215059.html

The US bank and the secret plan to destroy WikiLeaks

(The title will make some happy. The text won't.)


"Hacktivists, journalists and bloggers have since pored over the emails and discovered what appears to be a proposal that was intended to be pitched to the Bank of America to sabotage WikiLeaks and discredit journalists who are sympathetic to the whistle-blowing website."

"The presentation, which has been seen by The Independent, recommends a multi-pronged assault on WikiLeaks including deliberately submitting false documents to the website to undermine its credibility, pioneering cyber attacks to expose who the leakers to WikiLeaks are and going after sympathetic journalists."

"One of those mentioned is Glenn Greenwald, a pro-WikiLeaks reporter in the US. "

"A separate email written by Mr Barr to a Palantir employee suggests that security companies should track and intimidate people who donate to WikiLeaks. Security firms, Mr Barr wrote, "need to get people to understand that if they support the organisation we will come after them. Transaction records are easily identifiable."



You know what this reminds me of?

Nixon's CREEP and the dirty tricks they were busted for.

Note the planned attacks not only on Wikileaks but on individual U.S. citizens. I would be very surprised if our g'ment took any interest in this at all with an eye towards prosecuting these underhanded, criminal activities.

You want conspiracy? You got it.

If we can't bury Assange, we can beat him at his own game. In my post #97 I suggested we use him for counterintelligence as a disinformation venue.

One way or another, Julian Assange is now and forever a target to someone.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

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One way or another, Julian Assange is now and forever a target to someone.

Yes. And possibly you too as a private citizen of the U.S. at some time in the future.
Smile and be happy. You're going to love it, eh?

From Wikipedia:
"Dirty tricks are unethical, duplicitous, slanderous or illegal tactics employed to destroy or diminish the effectiveness of political or business opponents. The term "dirty trick" can also be used to refer to an underhanded technique to get ahead of an opponent (such as sabotage or disregarding rules of engagement)."

Regardless of how you feel about Assange and Wikileaks, do these activities appeal to you and do you condone them? Correct me if I'm wrong but your posts, and Belgium draft's, seem to say that yes, those tactics appeal to you AND that you condone them.

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...beat him at his own game.

Ummm...you equate this "game" to Wikileaks?
This is not a game, my friend. This is reality.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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That is freakin' HILARIOUS!!

For those who refuse to understand the ramifications of this, yes, it is....until YOU become a target and I'm pretty sure you'll be singing a different tune then.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[RonD1120 62]

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...beat him at his own game.

Ummm...you equate this "game" to Wikileaks?
This is not a game, my friend. This is reality.

[kelpdiver 2]

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From Wikipedia:
"Dirty tricks are unethical, duplicitous, slanderous or illegal tactics employed to destroy or diminish the effectiveness of political or business opponents. The term "dirty trick" can also be used to refer to an underhanded technique to get ahead of an opponent (such as sabotage or disregarding rules of engagement)."

this is small potatoes next to the revived rape allegations and false extradition.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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That is freakin' HILARIOUS!!

For those who refuse to understand the ramifications of this, yes, it is....until YOU become a target and I'm pretty sure you'll be singing a different tune then.

People who pull a dogs ears get bit.
People who break the law become targets of the police.
People who fuck with the national security of a country become targets of that country. SURPRISE!!!

Care to answer my question yet about where you think the line should be drawn concerning what the government should be able to keep secret? Hmmmm?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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People who pull a dogs ears get bit.
People who break the law become targets of the police.
People who fuck with the national security of a country become targets of that country. SURPRISE!!!

you forgot one - Americans are innocent until proven guilty.

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Care to answer my question yet about where you think the line should be drawn concerning what the government should be able to keep secret? Hmmmm?

prior restraint isn't the answer.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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People who pull a dogs ears get bit.
People who break the law become targets of the police.
People who fuck with the national security of a country become targets of that country. SURPRISE!!!

you forgot one - Americans are innocent until proven guilty.

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Care to answer my question yet about where you think the line should be drawn concerning what the government should be able to keep secret? Hmmmm?

prior restraint isn't the answer.

Assange is not an American.

"prior restraint isn't the answer". That's extremely vague. Care to elaborate?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.