kelpdiver 2 #776 March 30, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat part do you think will be unfair? We will see. Neither you nor me have any clue about the evidence and what is actually out there. He is already being treated unfairly (albeit my opinion) in prison. His current status and treatment in isolation in no way is on par with the alleged crime. the alleged crime is high treason. We've executed people in the past for this. It seems more likely this guy will get life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #777 March 30, 2011 perhaps you could reference the charge of 'high treason' because I cannot find it. He is charged with aiding the enemy, and a bunch of other things. I did not know Wikileaks was declared an enemy of the USA (other than through the usual witch-hunt channels I referred to already), so yes, there are actually holes in the case. HENCE, one of the reasons that I think it will be unfair. People like you state things that are simply not true and fail to do your homework prior to opening your mouth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #778 March 30, 2011 Quoteperhaps you could reference the charge of 'high treason' because I cannot find it. He is charged with aiding the enemy, and a bunch of other things. I did not know Wikileaks was declared an enemy of the USA (other than through the usual witch-hunt channels I referred to already), so yes, there are actually holes in the case. HENCE, one of the reasons that I think it will be unfair. People like you state things that are simply not true and fail to do your homework prior to opening your mouth don't get your panties in a bunch. aiding the enemy, passing secrets are forms of treason. Since the trial has yet to occur as you pointed out, we don't even know the ultimate explicit charges that will be listed in the court martial. That you suggest these are minor crimes is laughable, or quite sad. The prosecution is going to quickly establish that he did in fact leak the material. So the bulk of the trial is going to center on the significance of the material, though I suspect that by statute this may not even matter much. And then on whether or not it went to the enemy, though the fact that everyone on earth got it pretty much makes this true. It's not a stretch to say that by giving it to WikiLeaks he knew it would be published. 02:23:25 PM, Manning (Wired): i could’ve sold to russia or china, and made bank? 02:23:36 PM, Lamo (Wired): why didn’t you? 02:23:58 PM, Manning (Wired): because it’s public data 02:24:15 PM, Manning (Wired): i mean, the cables 02:24:46 PM, Manning (Wired): it belongs in the public domain[20] Unless his attorney can suppress this sort of material, what case do you think he actually has? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #779 March 30, 2011 Quote >I'd vote for wiping out the entire stupid thread . . . Because we wouldn't want any stupid, wandering, pointless threads here? OK, point taken...that's why they pay you the big bucks. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #780 March 31, 2011 Quoteaiding the enemy, passing secrets are forms of treason. Since the trial has yet to occur as you pointed out, we don't even know the ultimate explicit charges that will be listed in the court martial. That you suggest these are minor crimes is laughable, or quite sad. And again, I state, that YOU made up the charge of high treason. He has not been charged with any such thing. And I did not suggest that they were minor crimes. I suggested that his current situation of complete solitary is not supported by the charges he has in front of him So let's recap. He may or may not have given info to Wikileaks (let's say he has) - but they are not an enemy of the USA, even though people openly state that as a fact. There is no charge of treason levied against him, yet people like you insist that this is so. The case is 'so obvious and simple', yet he has not seen a trial or barely a hearing yet, but is being held in solitary for who-knows-what reason (unconstitutional at the very least) Now back to my comments about witch-hunting...... Are you writing your Congressmen to get this trial done and over with? Since you think that the case is so damned 'obvious and simple'? 'Cause I am writing my Congressman about the obvious violations of human rights (and citizens rights) that goes on in our prisons every day. But I would expect nothing less from the government than flagrant violations of the Constitution - that document that the right-wing seems to so staunchly want to uphold..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #781 March 31, 2011 Quote And I did not suggest that they were minor crimes. I suggested that his current situation of complete solitary is not supported by the charges he has in front of him I can't think of much larger crimes, sorry. You're in a minority opinion here. He's shown no reluctance to give out sensitive information, so solitary is perfectly appropriate. Quote He may or may not have given info to Wikileaks (let's say he has) - but they are not an enemy of the USA, even though people openly state that as a fact. No, the fact, which I already covered, is that since Wiki published all the material, EVERYONE received it, including all of our enemies. He knew this would be the result of his giving it to Wiki, in fact those transcripts confirm that he believed it should be available to all. So your claim that it wasn't provided to the enemy is obviously false. Quote Are you writing your Congressmen to get this trial done and over with? Since you think that the case is so damned 'obvious and simple'? Do I want a potential capital case rushed? Why? Not good for justice. I would like to see him arraigned, even if soldiers don't enjoy the same rights as citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #782 March 31, 2011 QuoteNo, the fact, which I already covered, is that since Wiki published all the material, EVERYONE received it, including all of our enemies. He knew this would be the result of his giving it to Wiki, in fact those transcripts confirm that he believed it should be available to all. So your claim that it wasn't provided to the enemy is obviously false. 'all' the information was not published by wikileaks. And if you think a leaked cable about what one diplomat thinks of another diplomat is 'aiding the enemy' somehow, then this argument is already over due to your delusions of grandeur. If that is 'aiding the enemy' then the New York Times is guilty of same said 'treason' every day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #783 March 31, 2011 Quote If that is 'aiding the enemy' then the New York Times is guilty of same said 'treason' every day. The NYT is not employed by our military to maintain secret information. I can't believe it's necessary to point that out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #784 March 31, 2011 Neither is Wikileaks. yet, the previous poster has lumped them in the 'the enemy' in justifying the charges..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #785 March 31, 2011 QuoteNeither is Wikileaks. yet, the previous poster has lumped them in the 'the enemy' in justifying the charges..... maybe, but that's irrelevant to me or this trial. My posting history on JA is pretty clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #786 April 4, 2011 So Bradley Manning sits naked in solitary confinement, and at least a dozen people in this thread claim that he has put American lives DIRECTLY in danger with his actions, as has Julian Assange. Yet no one can name a single incident where that actually happened. An we have a nut-job Minister in Florida who burns a Koran, causes riots that get innocent people and UN people killed, DIRECTLY incited from his actions, yet no one appears to give a shit. Well y'know what? That's fucked up. 'cause sure as shit, if anything that Wikileaks published caused something like that, Bradley Manning would be facing the death penalty..... I bet no one dares to go after a 'man of the cloth'. Religion - what a load of shit - on both sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #787 April 4, 2011 Well said. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #788 April 4, 2011 QuoteWell y'know what? That's fucked up. No, what is really fucked up is that there are people like you who think of these guys as gods. Don't forget to wipe your chin and dust off your knees when they are done with you.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #789 April 4, 2011 Quote..think of these guys as gods I never said that. I said, "He's My Hero!" (Assange). Something I believe in...free speech and freedom of the press. And I never said any such thing about Bradley Manning either. Actually I even said he is probably in a lot of shit with the law. So once again, welcome back, 'b.d.' crusading behind anonymity to twist and change everything that everyone else says into something that was not said just so you can rant; without purpose but certainly with rhetoric.... So what happened to that list of examples you were going to post of incidents that occurred to Americans soldiers due to Wikileaks? Oh yes, that's right - there AREN'T ANY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #790 April 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteWell y'know what? That's fucked up. No, what is really fucked up is that there are people like you who think of these guys as gods. Don't forget to wipe your chin and dust off your knees when they are done with you. I might not necessarily agree with you but I'm really glad there are people like Assange so even you can share your (IMO retarded and childish) views with the rest of the world freely and without the fear of being imprisoned and tortured for doing so. Enjoy while you still can.I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #791 April 4, 2011 Quote Quote Well y'know what? That's fucked up. No, what is really fucked up is that there are people like you who think of these guys as gods. Don't forget to wipe your chin and dust off your knees when they are done with you. You're not very good at mind reading, So I'd give it up if I were you and try reading the words that people actually write. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #792 April 4, 2011 QuoteI might not necessarily agree with you but I'm really glad there are people like Assange so even you can share your (IMO retarded and childish) views with the rest of the world freely and without the fear of being imprisoned and tortured for doing so. Enjoy while you still can. Non sequitur.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #793 April 4, 2011 QuoteAn we have a nut-job Minister in Florida who burns a Koran, causes riots that get innocent people and UN people killed, DIRECTLY incited from his actions, yet no one appears to give a shit. He did not DIRECTLY do anything. He did an act of free speech (that I could not care about) and several weeks later, half the world away some jackass incited a riot. The Koran is not a secret document with military information in it. I get what you are trying to say.... But the pastor didn't cause the riot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #794 April 4, 2011 QuoteI get what you are trying to say.... But the pastor didn't cause the riot. And I agree with that - but when people get killed, he shares in the responsibility for that. And therefore there is accountability, if not at a criminal level, there surely would be at a civil level. Maybe that is the route. A bunch of foreigners file a class action civil lawsuit and destroy the guy, kind alike OJ Simpson. When some US soldier gets ambushed and killed due to a Wikileaks report, it surely will make the news. When that happens, I will change my tune about Julian Assange. But that has not happened, yet he (and Bradley Manning) are being persecuted and prosecuted (publicly) as if that has already happened. All this in a country that claims innocence until proven guilty and freedom. bullshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #795 April 4, 2011 QuoteSo Bradley Manning sits naked in solitary confinement, and at least a dozen people in this thread claim that he has put American lives DIRECTLY in danger with his actions, as has Julian Assange. Yet no one can name a single incident where that actually happened. An we have a nut-job Minister in Florida who burns a Koran, causes riots that get innocent people and UN people killed, DIRECTLY incited from his actions, yet no one appears to give a shit. Well y'know what? That's fucked up. in what is basically a repeat posting - AGAIN, soldiers do not enjoy the same rights as citizens. The pastor has free speech rights. He didn't release classified information either. And again, as discussed earlier, the trial will center on the damage of the leaks, because the fact that he did commit the release of classified information will be settled quickly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #796 April 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell y'know what? That's fucked up. No, what is really fucked up is that there are people like you who think of these guys as gods. Don't forget to wipe your chin and dust off your knees when they are done with you. I might not necessarily agree with you but I'm really glad there are people like Assange so even you can share your (IMO retarded and childish) views with the rest of the world freely and without the fear of being imprisoned and tortured for doing so. Enjoy while you still can. Assange never did a damn thing to protect my, or your, rights. He has merely abused what he THINKS is his right in a vain attempt to embarrass the U.S.A. If you disagree then show one instance where he protected the right to free speech.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #797 April 4, 2011 Quote Quote ..think of these guys as gods I never said that. I said, "He's My Hero!" (Assange). Something I believe in...free speech and freedom of the press. And I never said any such thing about Bradley Manning either. Actually I even said he is probably in a lot of shit with the law. So once again, welcome back, 'b.d.' crusading behind anonymity to twist and change everything that everyone else says into something that was not said just so you can rant; without purpose but certainly with rhetoric.... So what happened to that list of examples you were going to post of incidents that occurred to Americans soldiers due to Wikileaks? Oh yes, that's right - there AREN'T ANY Once again you assume that just because you were not informed of an instance, or that such instances were not made public, that they never happened. The US government had to call in many agents because their identities were compromised. Several have not been able to be contacted. Hero my ass. You worship the asshole. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #798 April 4, 2011 QuoteThe US government had to call in many agents because their identities were compromised. Several have not been able to be contacted. document that please.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #799 April 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe US government had to call in many agents because their identities were compromised. Several have not been able to be contacted. document that please.... Sure thing. Just as soon as you document your claims that his actions have done any good.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #800 April 4, 2011 Quote The US government had to call in many agents because their identities were compromised. Several have not been able to be contacted. Keep the post SWAGS coming. They are hilarious. Hilarious because you have no freakin' clue what you're ranting about and never have. Keep 'em coming! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
