South Dakota moves to legalize killing abortion providers

[popsjumper 2]

Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Amazon 7]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

DING DING DING....

We have a winner

And to top it off it does not matter in any way HOW that conception takes place.

[popsjumper 2]

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I'm pro accountability.

Am I correct in assuming that accountability with respect to this topic is upheld only if one carries to term? Any other event is not accepting accountability?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

DING DING DING....

We have a winner

And to top it off it does not matter in any way HOW that conception takes place.

Even immaculate ones?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Amazon 7]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

DING DING DING....

We have a winner

And to top it off it does not matter in any way HOW that conception takes place.

Even immaculate ones?

Those seem to be happening a LOT...

[turtlespeed 221]

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"YOU got pregnant? Then I'm gonna take your responsibility out of your hands and tell you what to do about it. I'm gonna see that you are held accountable by making YOU take it to term. I don't care what you do after that. Just do it."

Incorrect assumption. I want to injsure that a person that made a decision knowing full well what the consequesnses MIGHT be, to take responsibility for that action without killing someone to cover their mistake. Then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, more responsibility and accountability will be transferred and assumed by society as a whole.

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Geez....one of these days somebody's going to get the idea that "responsibility" also includes neutering the male because he made the "mistake of fucking".
Would you agree to that?

Why - I took the personal responsibility and was accountable when I neutered myself. I have no unwanted kids, and no one can call me a murderer either.

Everyone can make that choice. There are contraceptives for FREE in a great many places. What it boils down to is inconvenience. No one wants the burden of an unwanted child. I get that, I can sympathise with that. That does not change my stance on murder. Murder is not any less murder because you haven't become attached enough to your unborn baby. Loving someone does not make that person more valuable than one that is not.

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The lady wants to fuck commit suicide? She takes responsibility for the outcome? You don't agree with her decision? So you TELL her, by law, what you want done?
I don't get the logic.

Hmmm.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 221]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

The beginning of a human life is, yes, predicated by conception.

Do I have it correct that you do not believe that to be a factual statement?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[popsjumper 2]

[Quote]"YOU got pregnant? Then I'm gonna take your responsibility out of your hands and tell you what to do about it. I'm gonna see that you are held accountable by making YOU take it to term. I don't care what you do after that. Just do it."
[/Quote]

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Incorrect assumption. I want to injsure that a person that made a decision knowing full well what the consequesnses MIGHT be,...

Ok...what I'm reading is that you are saying that there should be no question of what the "consequences" will be...carry to term. SO, MIGHT be doesn't apply here.

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Why - I took the personal responsibility and was accountable when I neutered myself. I have no unwanted kids, and no one can call me a murderer either.

Good for you! Now, apply that across the board for men as you would for women. What should the male's "consequences" be if he is to be held responsible and accountable when a pregnancy happens? He can't carry to term so what now?

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Everyone can make that choice.

There's that pesky "choice word again.

So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

I'll hold off on the "murder" part for now.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tkhayes 348]

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What did you call me?

I called you asshole. Get the fuck out of my bedroom and get the fuck out of my doctor's office.

And how fucking dare you even begin to determine the rights of some 'thing' which is not born and place those rights above the woman carrying that fetus.

Go back to the cave sir.....your extremist views came right from there......

sorry but whatever you think, the supreme court disagrees with you. The SUPREME LAW of the country. or did you forget that along with all the other rights and freedoms you appear to be ignoring as well.

[Amazon 7]

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Why - I took the personal responsibility and was accountable when I neutered myself. I have no unwanted kids, and no one can call me a murderer either.
.

Hmmm.

So sayeth the PRO DEATH PENALTY and PRO WAR Advocate as well as the have all THOSE people pull themselves up by their bootstraps guy

How many Texans have been KILLED by your state in YOUR name in YOUR lifetime... Its still muder by proxy by your state.... no matter HOW you want to make excuses for it.

Sorry but a living breathing human beings rights... trump a few cells that may or may not actually become a human being at some point.

By your logic all those fertilized eggs that do not find a place to attach to the uterine wall is murder... as are the miscarriages..( those things happen very very frequently)

[popsjumper 2]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

The beginning of a human life is, yes, predicated by conception.

Do I have it correct that you do not believe that to be a factual statement?

You didn't answer the question. We're talking two different concepts here.

But to answer yours, yes, I believe most life is predicated by conception of some sort.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 221]

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[Quote]"YOU got pregnant? Then I'm gonna take your responsibility out of your hands and tell you what to do about it. I'm gonna see that you are held accountable by making YOU take it to term. I don't care what you do after that. Just do it."
[/Quote]

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Incorrect assumption. I want to injsure that a person that made a decision knowing full well what the consequesnses MIGHT be,...

Ok...what I'm reading is that you are saying that there should be no question of what the "consequences" will be...carry to term. SO, MIGHT be doesn't apply here.

You are incorrect unless every sexual intercouse produces a pregnancy.
Otherwise, it is "Might". It is logical to assume that since procreation might happen during sexual intercourse, there is a chance that, if you fuck someone, she MIGHT get preggers.

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Why - I took the personal responsibility and was accountable when I neutered myself. I have no unwanted kids, and no one can call me a murderer either.

Good for you! Now, apply that across the board for men as you would for women. What should the male's "consequences" be if he is to be held responsible and accountable when a pregnancy happens? He can't carry to term so what now?

He gets really inconvenienced, while not being part of commiting murder.

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Everyone can make that choice.

There's that pesky "choice" word again.

Yes. Abstinence is a choice too. Gotta hate when those choices are so damned inconvenient, don't you?

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So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

Every contraceptive comes with a warning that they might not be 100% effective.
there is that pesky "Might" word again.

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I'll hold off on the "murder" part for now.

Some see in a way, like I do, as unlawfully ending the existance of a human life.
Others don't. I don't understand how the logic escapes those so completely, but it does.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 221]

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What did you call me?

I called you asshole. Get the fuck out of my bedroom and get the fuck out of my doctor's office.

And how fucking dare you even begin to determine the rights of some 'thing' which is not born and place those rights above the woman carrying that fetus.

Go back to the cave sir.....your extremist views came right from there......

sorry but whatever you think, the supreme court disagrees with you. The SUPREME LAW of the country. or did you forget that along with all the other rights and freedoms you appear to be ignoring as well.

I'm soo glad you have evolved above name calling.
It does reinforce my views of the liberal mind set.
Have your emotions and childishness always ruled the logic center and your thinking?

I am not in your bedroom, you would know, audibly, if I were.

I am not in your doctors office. If I were, it would be very odd, as at this hour they are closed.

It's a good thing, then that, at least in this country, you are allowed to disagree with that ruling and still state your opinion against it. I wish you had a better grasp on that.

I also wish you had a better grasp on your emotions. It would be nice to have a conversation without childish name calling and posturing.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 221]

The biggest point that I can make on this is that both you and I wouldn't have some of the friends that we do, had that choice been made to abort them.

It saddens me to think how many friends I have lost before ever even knowing them.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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I am not in your bedroom, you would know, audibly, if I were.

I am not in your doctors office. If I were, it would be very odd, as at this hour they are closed.

It's a good thing, then that, at least in this country, you are allowed to disagree with that ruling and still state your opinion against it. I wish you had a better grasp on that.

I also wish you had a better grasp on your emotions. It would be nice to have a conversation without childish name calling and posturing.

I wish YOU had a better control on YOUR emotions or perhaps you would not show such an utter lack of knowledge about human reproduction.... and call all conceptions that do not produce a child for you to control.... a MURDER

By your words you label MOST women... as MURDERERS

http://pregnancyrx.com/miscarriage_percentage.php

A miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion (as opposed to an induced abortion) refers to the spontaneous termination of a pregnancy, usually before week 20 of gestation. It is estimated that up to 20% of all known pregnancies may end in miscarriage, and up to 30% of all pregnancies in total.

This is because many pregnancies end prior to the woman even realizing that she is, in fact, pregnant (before the first missed period). These are known as “chemical pregnancies.”

While many miscarriages cannot be satisfactorily explained, there are some common causes. These include chromosomal abnormalities, hormonal imbalances, problems with the uterus, placenta, or umbilical cord, and the presence of fibroids or cervical problems.

[rushmc 23]

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Do I have it correct that you say a person is formed at the moment of conception?

I do not know about others


But I do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Coreece 190]

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What should the male's "consequences" be if he is to be held responsible and accountable when a pregnancy happens? He can't carry to term so what now?

He doesn't have a choice to kill the baby...he either has to support it or sign away his parental rights only if he's given the opportunity or forced to do so.

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So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

You sue the prophylactic and phamacy companies. I'm sue Andy will take the case for a small fee of course.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[popsjumper 2]

Damn it's hard to hit a moving target.
I'll try pin it down...

"Ok...what I'm reading is that you are saying in the case of a pregnancy is that there should be no question of what the "consequences" will be ...carry to term.

Ergo...no MIGHT involved.

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He gets really inconvenienced, while not being part of commiting murder.

Really, Turtle. We're talking about having abortions.
So, I'll pin it down again for you.

Oh wait...if he knows that an abortion is going to happen and does nothing, there's them accomplice-to-murder laws out there. Yes, that would be an inconvenience regardless of whether he wants a child or not. So now we have two people threatened with jail if they don't carry to term. Does it get carried out to Grandma and Granpa, to if they knew?

Is it all or nothing?

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Gotta hate when those choices are so damned inconvenient, don't you

Absolutely not! That's what we want! CHOICES!
(hint: pro-choice)

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So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

You neglected to answer this.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rushmc 23]

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I'm pro accountability.

Am I correct in assuming that accountability with respect to this topic is upheld only if one carries to term? Any other event is not accepting accountability?

Each is responcible for their own

So

Yes

Each knows the possible outcomes do they not?

Each has specific risks that they most likely understand


Correct?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 221]

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I am not in your bedroom, you would know, audibly, if I were.

I am not in your doctors office. If I were, it would be very odd, as at this hour they are closed.

It's a good thing, then that, at least in this country, you are allowed to disagree with that ruling and still state your opinion against it. I wish you had a better grasp on that.

I also wish you had a better grasp on your emotions. It would be nice to have a conversation without childish name calling and posturing.

I wish YOU had a better control on YOUR emotions or perhaps you would not show such an utter lack of knowledge about human reproduction.... and call all conceptions that do not produce a child for you to control.... a MURDER

By your words you label MOST women... as MURDERERS

http://pregnancyrx.com/miscarriage_percentage.php

A miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion (as opposed to an induced abortion) refers to the spontaneous termination of a pregnancy, usually before week 20 of gestation. It is estimated that up to 20% of all known pregnancies may end in miscarriage, and up to 30% of all pregnancies in total.

This is because many pregnancies end prior to the woman even realizing that she is, in fact, pregnant (before the first missed period). These are known as “chemical pregnancies.”

While many miscarriages cannot be satisfactorily explained, there are some common causes. These include chromosomal abnormalities, hormonal imbalances, problems with the uterus, placenta, or umbilical cord, and the presence of fibroids or cervical problems.

That would be classified as accidental, and no fault to anyone.
You are being obvioulsy obtuse, as you know that the type of abortion we are discussing is an elective procedure.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

You said AT CONCEPTION....YOU said MURDER.. no wiggling around reptile.....

[popsjumper 2]

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What should the male's "consequences" be if he is to be held responsible and accountable when a pregnancy happens? He can't carry to term so what now?

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He doesn't have a choice to kill the baby...he either has to support it or sign away his parental rights only if he's given the opportunity or forced to do so.

He has the choice to participate in the decision to abort or not...sometimes anyway. And if he agrees to the abortion how is he to be held accountable?

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So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

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You sue the prophylactic and phamacy companies. I'm sue Andy will take the case for a small fee of course.

You're either saying no, they should not be held accountable or the statement doesn't answer the question. I don't know for sure. Which is it?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

I think I've put in all I could. I've stated my stance.

Abortion is legal. I'd like to keep it that way instead of making new laws taking more choices away from us as a population.

As for the OP, I think it sucks that anybody would even think about writing a proposal that would expose others to being killed outright.

You anti-abortion guys talking about "murder", how can you possibly justify symbolically putting an Open Season sign on the back of a doctor that performs abortions...regardless of how you feel about the procedure?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 221]

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So, both the male and the female use contraceptives (responsibility) and a pregnancy still happens...they should be held accountable by carry-to-term?

You neglected to answer this.

First of all - you seem to conveniently leave off "accountability".
Yes - they knew the risks when they did the deed.

If you choose to (and had a choice not to, even if it was inconvenient to) walk down the street of a bad neighborhood knowing you MIGHT get shot, or mugged, and you walk that street anyway, take responsibility, and accountability, you knew the risks. All you have to do, in most cases, is avoid the risk.

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"Ok...what I'm reading is that you are saying in the case of a pregnancy is that there should be no question of what the "consequences" will be ...carry to term.

Ergo...no MIGHT involved.

Are you speaking in terms of medical consequenses? In that I agree that the mothers needs may trump the childs. It's a slippery slope, that one. I can see arguments for and against. I generally side with the mother if her life is in danger of death or permanent extreme disabilitating physical consequenses. (Mainly death)

I am also hesitant, and reluctant to admit that major defects in the child might warrant abortive procedures if it can be proven that the child would never be able to have any semblance of a life, and if the methods and technology we have today were taken into the equasion, were deemed innsufficient.

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if he knows that an abortion is going to happen and does nothing, there's them accomplice-to-murder laws out there. Yes, that would be an inconvenience regardless of whether he wants a child or not. So now we have two people threatened with jail if they don't carry to term. Does it get carried out to Grandma and Granpa, to if they knew?

Is it all or nothing?

At this point in time, the law does not provide for any "Choice" by the male to have or not have any say.

You say you are all for choices, right? Where is your outrage that the male has no "Choice" in wether HIS child is allowed to live?

To answer your last question, obviously not. It's more of a moral issue than legal.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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I think I've put in all I could. I've stated my stance.

Abortion is legal. I'd like to keep it that way instead of making new laws taking more choices away from us as a population.

As for the OP, I think it sucks that anybody would even think about writing a proposal that would expose others to being killed outright.

You anti-abortion guys talking about "murder", how can you possibly justify symbolically putting an Open Season sign on the back of a doctor that performs abortions...regardless of how you feel about the procedure?

Religious EXTREMEISM... that even the Taliban can love...