Why are zygote, embryo and fetus simply synonyms for human being?

[DaVinci 0]

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bacteria is alive, that does not make it 'life'

Wow this is not a difficult concept... I can only hope you are being obtuse on purpose as opposed to on accident.

Bacteria is not an early life stage of a human.

[DaVinci 0]

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Indeed. You have just proven that your bizarre leaps of logic make no sense.

You not I are the one with the inconsistencies in parental consent laws.

Talk about a bizarre leap in logic

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At least we can agree on that.

The only thing we seem to be able to agree on is your inconsistencies in logic.

[VincePetaccio 0]

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Reproduction in this context does not mean cellular division, it means the ability to produce another unique individual.

What is "unique" about two identical cells that split from the same "parent" cell?

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[VincePetaccio 0]

DaVinci,

I don't know you, nor do I have much experience "foruming" with you outside of Speakers Corner, but jeez, take it easy! Every post I see you make is rude, attacking, and just downright condescending.

Different people feel differently than you do about things. That's OK. It doesn't make you right or them wrong, or visa versa.

You're on the internet. Cool your jets.

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[DanG 1]

All I'm saying is that "reproduction" in your definition refers to a species' ability to reproduce itself. Your definition is only useful for determining if some alien entity (or intelligent robot, etc.) is alive. It can't be used to tell if an individual member of a species is alive or not. It is not useful in this context.

To directly answer your question, single cell orgainsms reproducing through division do not necessarily produce identical "offspring". If they did, evolution could not occur. The results, on the whole, can be considered unique individuals.

All of this is off the OPs point. There is no question that the cells that make up a zygote, embryo, fetus, or teenager are living cells. The question is at what point do we consider the group of living cells to be a human being. You can't say that every group of living homo sapien cells is a human being. If you did, then my pancreas is a human being, as is my liver, spleen, half my spleen, my right eye, and one thirtieth of my left ball.

- Dan G

[DaVinci 0]

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I don't know you, nor do I have much experience "foruming" with you outside of Speakers Corner, but jeez, take it easy! Every post I see you make is rude, attacking, and just downright condescending.

Please read my first post in this thread and then see who attacked who first.

And then look at this history of "dialog" between the those you claim I am bashing and myself.

You will see people get what they give with me.

[wmw999 2,460]

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You will see people get what they give with me.

Something to consider sometime is instead giving as you would like to get.

Works for me.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,460]

By the way, thanks folks. This has largely been a thoughtful thread, with a lot of good points made. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but I'm understanding more.

And we all do know that since I'm OP, it's all about me

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tkhayes 348]

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Please read my first post in this thread and then see who attacked who first.

And then look at this history of "dialog" between the those you claim I am bashing and myself.

You will see people get what they give with me.

At least Vince feels that he can identify himself instead of hiding behind anonymous icons. Your point loses some meaning if you do not have the courage to stand up in public and say it.

[tkhayes 348]

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bacteria is alive, that does not make it 'life'

Wow this is not a difficult concept... I can only hope you are being obtuse on purpose as opposed to on accident.

Bacteria is not an early life stage of a human.

And once again you miss the point because you take only a snippet of what I said, change the context, and then argue it.

Try the whole argument, not bits of it please. I am nothing short of VERY CLEAR in my position. If you want to extract a single word and then use it against the argument as a whole, then it defeats the purpose of any purpose in being in this discussion.

[mnealtx 0]

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At least Vince feels that he can identify himself instead of hiding behind anonymous icons. Your point loses some meaning if you do not have the courage to stand up in public and say it.

If it were an issue where the credentials of the people debating had any impact on the argument, you *might* have a point. Since the discussion is largely a matter of opinion, it really doesn't matter.

Nice stealth PA, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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All I'm saying is that "reproduction" in your definition refers to a species' ability to reproduce itself.

good point, most 9 year olds can't reproduce yet. they must not yet be human

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,008]

>good point, most 9 year olds can't reproduce yet. they must not yet be human

And gay men, but we all knew that.

[Amazon 7]

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>good point, most 9 year olds can't reproduce yet. they must not yet be human

And gay men, but we all knew that.

COOOL

Less closeted rePUBIClowns

[VincePetaccio 0]

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All I'm saying is that "reproduction" in your definition refers to a species' ability to reproduce itself. Your definition is only useful for determining if some alien entity (or intelligent robot, etc.) is alive. It can't be used to tell if an individual member of a species is alive or not. It is not useful in this context.

To directly answer your question, single cell orgainsms reproducing through division do not necessarily produce identical "offspring". If they did, evolution could not occur. The results, on the whole, can be considered unique individuals.

All of this is off the OPs point. There is no question that the cells that make up a zygote, embryo, fetus, or teenager are living cells. The question is at what point do we consider the group of living cells to be a human being. You can't say that every group of living homo sapien cells is a human being. If you did, then my pancreas is a human being, as is my liver, spleen, half my spleen, my right eye, and one thirtieth of my left ball.

The genetic entropy present in a single division is so unfathomably minuscule that saying they are different would be about on par with saying that two twins are unrelated because they have different numbers of hairs on their heads.

Though operationally, I concede that you're correct, if we choose groups of living cells. However, by selecting organs or portions of your left ball (or even your RIGHT BALL!), you're only selecting part of the organism. We're talking about the entire thing when we discuss a zygote.

Of course, you are correct in that a zygote could not interact with another zygote and form a third, unique zygote.

Personally, I don't consider a zygote itself to be a human being. However, I do think that it represents the potential to become a human being. That's not something that I take lightly.

The jury's still out on my stance on the unspoken umbrella issue here (abortion).

Come, my friends! 'Tis not too late to seek out a newer world!

[DanG 1]

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Personally, I don't consider a zygote itself to be a human being. However, I do think that it represents the potential to become a human being. That's not something that I take lightly.

I agree.

- Dan G

[Guest]

Dehumanization is key. Once this has been addressed, and any semblance of humanity dismissed, it's easier to wipe "it" out, as being non-human and therefore unworthy of protection. It's the same thing in warfare. We human beings have very strong instincts against fratricide. Dehumanization is an important part of the process. Please see "On Killing", by LTC Dave Grossman.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[DaVinci 0]

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At least Vince feels that he can identify himself instead of hiding behind anonymous icons. Your point loses some meaning if you do not have the courage to stand up in public and say it.

I see, you cant debate my arguments, so you go after me.

Typical. But this is not some debate on what is the best cutaway method and my experience should be taken into consideration ... So your argument just shows the weakness in your position..... and your frustration with being unable to discuss the TOPIC.

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Try the whole argument, not bits of it please. I am nothing short of VERY CLEAR in my position. If you want to extract a single word and then use it against the argument as a whole, then it defeats the purpose of any purpose in being in this discussion.

As soon as YOU do the same.... I have been very clear. A Zygote, Embryo, and Fetus are CYCLES of the HUMAN life.

You just choose to try and debate some fungus.

[billvon 3,008]

>A Zygote, Embryo, and Fetus are CYCLES of the HUMAN life.

Agreed. So are egg cells and sperm.

[kallend 2,030]

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>A Zygote, Embryo, and Fetus are CYCLES of the HUMAN life.

Agreed. So are egg cells and sperm.

Don't bother daVinci with facts, he has emotion on his side.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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>A Zygote, Embryo, and Fetus are CYCLES of the HUMAN life.

Agreed. So are egg cells and sperm.

Don't bother daVinci with facts, he has emotion on his side.

And brought together the cycle continues

You are one funny perfessr though
I will give you that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 348]

every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great! If a sperm gets wasted, God gets quite irate!

[DaVinci 0]

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Don't bother daVinci with facts, he has emotion on his side

This from you.... WOW!!!!!!!!

[DaVinci 0]

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>A Zygote, Embryo, and Fetus are CYCLES of the HUMAN life.

Agreed. So are egg cells and sperm.

Actually no.

Humans experience a life cycle similar to other mammals, starting with an embryo and ending at death. A life cycle begins at conception.

Read more: Life Cycle of Human Beings | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_5704009_life-cycle-human-beings.html#ixzz1G2z7IFAL


The human life cycle begins at fertilization,

http://www.biologyreference.com/La-Ma/Life-Cycle-Human.html

The life cycle of a human starts at fertilization.

Nice try however.

[kallend 2,030]

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Don't bother daVinci with facts, he has emotion on his side

This from you.... WOW!!!!!!!!

And from you we get NO NAME, NO LOCATION.

Hiding behind anonymity is dishonorable and cowardly.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.