rushmc 23
Does anyone happen to know why police and firefighters are exempt from this? Is there some reason they have a greater need for collective bargaining? Or do police and firefighters just more commonly check "R" boxes on their ballots, whereas teachers more frequently check "D" boxes?
Blues,
Dave
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
rehmwa 2
"police and firefighters" are serious buzzwords for voters of either party
so I'd say it's pandering
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
so I'd say it's pandering
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Fast 0
QuoteDoes anyone happen to know why police and firefighters are exempt from this? Is there some reason they have a greater need for collective bargaining? Or do police and firefighters just more commonly check "R" boxes on their ballots, whereas teachers more frequently check "D" boxes?
Blues,
Dave
Yeah, it's primarily a voting issue. There are also claims of public safety. They don't want those people protesting / quitting / etc.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Kennedy 0
QuoteQuack Quack Quack
You get your vitriol and drivel from an invisible duck?
You really should try a song bird. Much more therapeutic.
witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*
Andy9o8 2
Quote
The legal system will get involved. The meeting had less than 2 hours of notice, which is illegal by state law -- 24 hours notice is required, unless extraordinary circumstances apply. It remains to be seen if the law sees 3 weeks of protests as meeting the standard of the law as written.
Quote"We have confirmed with the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the Legislative Council and the Legislative Reference Bureau that every item in tonight's bill follows the letter of the law.
"The people of Wisconsin elected us to come to Madison and do a job. Just because the Senate Democrats won't do theirs, doesn't mean we won't do ours."
http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14221624
The issue is that they didn't give legal notice that they were going to take a vote. Whatever they did in the meeting is irrelevant, as the meeting itself was not properly announced as according to WI law.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
The legal system will get involved. The meeting had less than 2 hours of notice, which is illegal by state law -- 24 hours notice is required, unless extraordinary circumstances apply. It remains to be seen if the law sees 3 weeks of protests as meeting the standard of the law as written.Quote"We have confirmed with the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the Legislative Council and the Legislative Reference Bureau that every item in tonight's bill follows the letter of the law.
"The people of Wisconsin elected us to come to Madison and do a job. Just because the Senate Democrats won't do theirs, doesn't mean we won't do ours."
http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14221624
The issue is that they didn't give legal notice that they were going to take a vote. Whatever they did in the meeting is irrelevant, as the meeting itself was not properly announced as according to WI law.
There is a difference between meetings laws and what goes on in various legislatures
But
Do you have a link to any info for what you are posting here?
I just want to learn more
It does however seem as though the senate has covered all the bases. I dont think they would let this slip em up
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
here is a google news search on the supject
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbs=nws%3A1%2Cqdr%3Ad&q=senate+vote+open+meetings+law&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbs=nws%3A1%2Cqdr%3Ad&q=senate+vote+open+meetings+law&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
turtlespeed 226
QuoteQuoteAdolph is SOOOO proud of you and his other fellow travellers.
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/mkv2ch12.html
If the moderators don't consider that a personal attack than this should also pass ... psychiatrists want to help you.
Agreed.
. . . but some people get passes and some don't. It's all about how political you are with the mods here, most of the time.
It does seem that some here should take a step back.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Quote
Do you have a link to any info for what you are posting here?
I just want to learn more
http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html
Relevant section is 19.84, stating that meeting must be announced 24 hours in advance, unless in case of emergency which would make that impossible; 2 hours notice is otherwise required. The meeting was scheduled for 6 pm and notice was given at 4:10. That's too late by either measure.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
Do you have a link to any info for what you are posting here?
I just want to learn more
http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html
Relevant section is 19.84, stating that meeting must be announced 24 hours in advance, unless in case of emergency which would make that impossible; 2 hours notice is otherwise required. The meeting was scheduled for 6 pm and notice was given at 4:10. That's too late by either measure.
Where does it show when the notice was given?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
Do you have a link to any info for what you are posting here?
I just want to learn more
http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html
Relevant section is 19.84, stating that meeting must be announced 24 hours in advance, unless in case of emergency which would make that impossible; 2 hours notice is otherwise required. The meeting was scheduled for 6 pm and notice was given at 4:10. That's too late by either measure.
look
You can read
You have proven that
We will see what happens but
we are dealing with the rules of the senate and assembly
not the same thing as you post
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuote
Do you have a link to any info for what you are posting here?
I just want to learn more
http://www.wisfoic.org/an-openmeetingslaw.html
Relevant section is 19.84, stating that meeting must be announced 24 hours in advance, unless in case of emergency which would make that impossible; 2 hours notice is otherwise required. The meeting was scheduled for 6 pm and notice was given at 4:10. That's too late by either measure.
Where does it show when the notice was given?
I gotta wonder
Is this a ploy to draw them back into WI
the original bill is still on the floor is it not?
Puts the dems in a tight spot huh
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Channman 2
QuoteQuoteAdolph is SOOOO proud of you and his other fellow travellers.
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/mkv2ch12.html
If the moderators don't consider that a personal attack than this should also pass ... psychiatrists want to help you.
Amazon, you know we Love Ya, and we all want to see you get help.
Amazon 7
QuoteQuoteQuoteAdolph is SOOOO proud of you and his other fellow travellers.
http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/mkv2ch12.html
If the moderators don't consider that a personal attack than this should also pass ... psychiatrists want to help you.
Amazon, you know we Love Ya, and we all want to see you get help.
That right there is a crock of shit.... but if it makes you feel better... who am I to get in the way of yall's delusions.
conwayte 0
"I'm curious, what is the difference in pay for a Wisconsan teacher that has to contribute to his/her own health/retirement bennifits if they don't have to pay union dues?
Or do union dues equal the additional amount they may be required to pay?
James"
James,
Using 7% (told by superintendent to expect 6%-10% reduction in take-home pay):
Reduction in take-home pay = $2300/year
Union dues = $750/year
Interesting times to be sure.
Or do union dues equal the additional amount they may be required to pay?
James"
James,
Using 7% (told by superintendent to expect 6%-10% reduction in take-home pay):
Reduction in take-home pay = $2300/year
Union dues = $750/year
Interesting times to be sure.
Being from Wisconsin & having the news story being shoved down our throats for over 3 weeks, I can only give what I've followed !
Understanding news reports are either propaganda, rhetoric, or reports on a " need to know " basis, this is what has been reported.
All WI Democratic Senators fled the state & holed up in hotels in IL., claiming to force compromise by the Republican Senator's / Govenor.
It was recently indicated their campaign funds are indeed, being used to cover their; to date, 3 week walk out !
Last week a news reporter uncovered a "secret" email exchange between one of the Senators & the Madison, WI., Mayor.
Evidently, the Union paid the Mayor & senate to stage the walk out as a ploy to stall & divert until the Union's Collective Bargaining Contract could be signed.
The email also entailed the Mayor advising if there were any other known Union contracts within the area; that needed a stall until they too could get their Union contracts signed, to advance notice to him, to do so !
The Bill passed the Assembly last night, without the return of the Senators.
Tonight's news indicated the Senator's may still refuse to return, as way to give the People an opportunity to be heard, despite the Governor demanding law enforcement seek out each one & return, even if by force !
My understanding of the Bill, dictates State workers have lost collective bargaining in most Union affliated issues other then in regards to wages.
Their retirement entitlement met by the State matching $ for $, was decreased by 5%.
Earlier reports indicate the Bill, will cost the State workers an overall decrease in pay & benefits to the equivalent of @ $ 2.00/hour.
The "peaceful" demonstrations at the State Capitol, has resulted in damage of over $ 700,000.00 to the interior of the Capitol.
I for one think each one should be charged with AWOL, abandonment of post, terminated from duties, & required to reimburse the People ( State) every dime they have earned since their recent term began...and I FORMERALLY considered myself a democrat 
QuoteI don't believe anything in that article. It mentions the 41 rounds of .22 ammo found near the statehouse, and rushmc has already said that no media outlet would report that. It must be from the Onion.
Local news ( Fox 11 out of Green Bay & Fox 6 out of Milwaukee) did report 22 rounds were found by law enforcement on the grounds of the Capitol...
"peaceful "demonstrators" ( some acquaintences who were there) confirm they were found, but only 'planted' as an attention seeking message
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
This same individual also denies any damage to the tune of
turtlespeed 226
QuoteQuoteI don't believe anything in that article. It mentions the 41 rounds of .22 ammo found near the statehouse, and rushmc has already said that no media outlet would report that. It must be from the Onion.
Local news ( Fox 11 out of Green Bay & Fox 6 out of Milwaukee) did report 22 rounds were found by law enforcement on the grounds of the Capitol...
"peaceful "demonstrators" ( some acquaintences who were there) confirm they were found, but only 'planted' as an attention seeking message
This same individual also denies any damage to the tune of
The 700k or 7M (I have heard both) number is only a cost that is real if you use union workers, otherwise it would be about 1/7th that number.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't believe anything in that article. It mentions the 41 rounds of .22 ammo found near the statehouse, and rushmc has already said that no media outlet would report that. It must be from the Onion.
Local news ( Fox 11 out of Green Bay & Fox 6 out of Milwaukee) did report 22 rounds were found by law enforcement on the grounds of the Capitol...
"peaceful "demonstrators" ( some acquaintences who were there) confirm they were found, but only 'planted' as an attention seeking message
This same individual also denies any damage to the tune of
The 700k or 7M (I have heard both) number is only a cost that is real if you use union workers, otherwise it would be about 1/7th that number.
We could get a couple of illegal Mexicans to do it for around $50K
turtlespeed 226
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI don't believe anything in that article. It mentions the 41 rounds of .22 ammo found near the statehouse, and rushmc has already said that no media outlet would report that. It must be from the Onion.
Local news ( Fox 11 out of Green Bay & Fox 6 out of Milwaukee) did report 22 rounds were found by law enforcement on the grounds of the Capitol...
"peaceful "demonstrators" ( some acquaintences who were there) confirm they were found, but only 'planted' as an attention seeking message
This same individual also denies any damage to the tune of
The 700k or 7M (I have heard both) number is only a cost that is real if you use union workers, otherwise it would be about 1/7th that number.
We could get a couple of illegal Mexicans to do it for around $50K
Heh - maybe if it were in Texas
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
dmcoco84 5
QuoteThe 700k or 7M (I have heard both) number is only a cost that is real if you use union workers, otherwise it would be about 1/7th that number.
The 700k or 7M (I have heard both) number is only a cost that is real if you use union workers, otherwise it would be about 1/7th that number.
--------------------------------------------------------
Exactly !
Original reports claimed $7 mil. damage to the Capitol; however, most recent reports say over $700k.
I say give the protesters a pan of spackle, & a paint brush...let them see the work required of those who have lost their jobs & benefits, who did not have Union representation.
If given the opportunity to incur the cuts as included in the Bill; I'd bet the thousands of GM workers of the Local UAW, would have taken them rather than having GM's 3rd longest running plant in Janesville, WI...shut their doors permanently 3 years ago !
At one time, Unions probably were an aid to the working man, but with the economic evolution as it is...they've found it their agenda to line their 'blue collars' !
My experience as a former Federal worker has been, floor stewards are no different then management, other then the titles they boar & the scope of their positions.
Should this Bill be recalled, & the allocation cuts are not made; to include $900 mil to schools, &
$ 500 mil in Medicaid / Badgercare...this state IS headed for bankruptcy.
Wisconsin has been known to be one of the more liberal of the welfare system, causing an influx of welfare seekers from neighboring states !
After GM's closing, most every major industrial & textile plants have closed permanently, relocated to another state, or country, or incurred massive permanent lay offs.
Small farms have gone belly up, while corporate farms have been paid by the government an enormous amount /head of cattle, or paid by the government NOT to farm their land !
I have 2 skydiving friends who are married & are both teachers.
Both are wonderful people...
Both have been highly active in the protests !
During their summer months; while collecting their teacher's pay & unemployment, they both work 'under the table' at a DZ.
Both have gotten their riggers rating & he; his TI & pilots license, in the last 2 years !
Understanding another TI, pilot & riggers are an asset to any DZ, they are both now trying to utilize their newly acquired ratings on to DZ's; in attempt to get full time positions, some others have as their only source of income during jump season.
I am astonished as to the resistence these State workers have for the good of the future of the State as a whole 
Apparently they split it because they only needed the Democrats for the fiscal part. It appears that the Democrats played a hand without thinking about what hands the Republicans could play ...
Agreed
However Walker was talking about this last week
Good move by the R's
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln