new things for AFF Training

[DJmikeD 0]

now that I have completed AFF Training there are a couple of things that I think would be a real good idea to talk to the students about and keep them from making a mistake and having to deal with people pissed off at them.

I did not do this, I was smart enough to keep my mouth shut but I can see how this would happen.
the first one is tell the students that you will hear the instructors tell a lot of jokes to tandem students, do not join in on this, I would think an instructor would want to back hand a new guy who just got his license and thought it would be a good idea to ask the instructor if he took his medication that morning.
I bring this up because of a post i read about a new license guy who was joking around and asked the student in the plain if they packed his malfunction yet in the training. the student asked they would do that and he said it just gets you ready to be prepared in the future. If the student blew that jump and failed because he was worried about a bad canopy then he would have to pay more money.

Second I did this mistake - talking to much about a dive. when I was a student I could not be doing something wrong not me. well I am a very social person and to what I thought was funny as a story was being perceived by others as an insult to the instructors. after about 3 hours another instructor came up to me and asked me who do you think did something wrong on that last jump, your to instructors who have jumped over 6,000 times each, or you who has 3 jumps. It really put things into perspective for me and maid me a better student. kinda knocked me down a few notches from the big head I had for jumping out of a plain by myself. Now I am on the edge of getting my license thanks to some of the best instructors, and I am having the best time of my life.

Just thought I would share this if there are any other instructors out there.

"Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part!
-DJ Mike

[popsjumper 2]

I would agree that it's probably a good idea to tone it down until you learn "the ropes" so to speak.

I would suggest an education in spelling in the mean time.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Butters 0]

I try to keep my mouth shut and just watch right now. If someone begins talking to me though I begin to ask alot of questions (just my nature). Is this annoying for veteran skydivers? I know some of my questions may seem dumb but for all the veteran skydivers, please don't patronize students when they ask questions. I was asking a question before my last jump and the skydiver gave me a look and then just stood there.

I do joke on the plane ride up on my jumps but only to my instructors. I like to relax and have fun before them jump.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DSE 5]

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the first one is tell the students that you will hear the instructors tell a lot of jokes to tandem students, do not join in on this, I would think an instructor would want to back hand a new guy who just got his license and thought it would be a good idea to ask the instructor if he took his medication that morning.

Just thought I would share this if there are any other instructors out there.

FWIW, our DZ and a couple others I've been at, have a rule about fun jumpers not talking to AFF students, simply for reasons of keeping the student focused on their jump. Instructors and AFF students are a team. Fun jumpers aren't part of that team.
The "secret" handshakes, etc are for fun jumpers and perhaps tandem masters, not AFF students. They've got enough on their minds without worrying about "trying to be one of the guys" or worrying about whether you're serious with stupid jokes, IMO.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

I don't think I've said anything that my instructors have been upset about, or at least they haven't told me. I learnt that after reading the thread about all the jokes TI's have for their students and it was commented on it there. However, I have played up on jokes when the instructor looks at me, basically asking for comment. Such as this:

*In the plane at 8k:
TI: Pretty soon they'll let me go by myself, like him (points at me)
Me: Yeah, it was tough getting here, but soon enough Bob
Tandem Student: Huge Eyes

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[itsokrelax 0]

I had a situation like this the other day. I'm on my tenth jump but I didn't think it would hurt to joke a little, but it was with my instructor. He was saying something about how I should make sure and check that he has my pilot chute when he says he does. I said something like "You better have it...no April fools jokes on my today huh." He seemed to get rather annoyed with this. I was very serious up to this point and was just trying to make myself relax. Does this sound out of line? Maybe he just hates me?

[Ron 10]

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If someone begins talking to me though I begin to ask alot of questions (just my nature). Is this annoying for veteran skydivers?

To some, yes. To others, no. Some people do this as a way to escape and for them teaching is not fun. Others love teaching.

So ask if it is ok to ask them some questions. LISTEN to them. Use your common sense to see if you are bothering them. If they are in the middle of a dirt dive, or conversation...You most likely are. If they are sitting around watching people land...Maybe not.

Get a mentor. Someone who will look after you and answer your questions.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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FWIW, our DZ and a couple others I've been at, have a rule about fun jumpers not talking to AFF students, simply for reasons of keeping the student focused on their jump. Instructors and AFF students are a team. Fun jumpers aren't part of that team.
The "secret" handshakes, etc are for fun jumpers and perhaps tandem masters, not AFF students. They've got enough on their minds without worrying about "trying to be one of the guys" or worrying about whether you're serious with stupid jokes, IMO.

Add not giving students advice even on the ground. Instead direct them to an Instructor...Then print this, frame it, and hang it at the DZ.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Butters 0]

In short I'll just say this as another student. F**k that instructor. I have one instructor who has taught me what I need to know for the jumps, has answered any questions I have without ever making me feel dumb, and has made the jumps safe and fun. I recently had another instructor who was the complete opposite and although I passed the jump, I didn't have fun and did not feel good after the jump. Their job may be to teach us how not to be a danger to ourselves and others but they should remember we are paying alot of money, are the future of the sport, and if we continue will be their comrades and thus should treat us as such.

PS: I don't ask questions to people that aren't already into a conversation with me and giving me advice. I just ask alot of questions once a conversation is started.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DJmikeD 0]

I had some of the best luck with the instructors at my DZ. they were great guys, I just maid sure that I was not asking them any questions if they were with another student at the time. I also spent a lot of time just hanging out at the drop zone with the instructors after dark. This is where I learned a huge amount for free. Take a case of beer down there and pull it out at the end of the day and start handing them out. You and the rest of the guys and gals will just have fun sharing stories and trading names.

"Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part!
-DJ Mike

[AMax 0]

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In short I'll just say this as another student. F**k that instructor.

perhaps you are in a wrong sport?

[AFFI 0]

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I would suggest an education in spelling in the mean time.

Huked un phunix rully werked fer me!

[DJmikeD 0]

Ok guys I got it I am not the best speller. Lucky for me I don't have to spell pull before I do the action.

"Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part!
-DJ Mike

[Butters 0]

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In short I'll just say this as another student. F**k that instructor.

perhaps you are in a wrong sport?

No, this sport fits me just fine. I was only trying to say that instructors should be patient and realize that students are in a new environment and it is best to give constructive criticism and advice, not to be demeaning to the student. The post reminded me of my last jump in which one of the instructors constantly gave me a blank stare and then just turned away when I asked questions or was relaxing and joking with my other instructor.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[wildfan75 1]

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I was only trying to say that instructors should be patient and realize that students are in a new environment and it is best to give constructive criticism and advice, not to be demeaning to the student.

I agree...to a certain extent.

This is skydiving, not ballet. Your life depends on doing the right things at the right time. If you f*ck up, you don't just have a bad recital, you majorily injury yourself or worse, you die. You have to be able to take criticism, not matter how it's delivered. Coaches and instructors are there to make sure you don't kill yourself, not to make you feel good about yourself.

And before I get slammed for being so cold, like I said, I agree with you. Delivery means a lot, but don't take the delivery personal. Wipe off all the crap they coat it with and turn it into constructive criticism yourself. This helps in all facets of life.

[kelpdiver 2]

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This is skydiving, not ballet. Your life depends on doing the right things at the right time. If you f*ck up, you don't just have a bad recital, you majorily injury yourself or worse, you die. You have to be able to take criticism, not matter how it's delivered. Coaches and instructors are there to make sure you don't kill yourself, not to make you feel good about yourself.

Sure, that's true. It's every student's ass on the line, so it's to their benefit not to miss the message for the delivery choice.

But, it is also the difference between a good instructor and a lousy one. Sometimes a blunt approach is called for, and the good one will know when. The asshole one will always opt for it.

----
The suggested method of this thread is students should be seen and not heard, and I worry about it. They're dealing with a lot of stress and a lot of life saving information. I don't think they should live in fear of sticking their foot in their mouth. If instructors and upjumpers hold such remarks against them in the long haul, find another DZ.

[Butters 0]

Before this goes any farther I'll just say this. I was not commenting about safety. I know your life and other peoples lives are on the line and safety is a key concern. I was commenting on the general lack of social and instructional skills some people have and the fact that those people should not be instructors. I didn't find it appropriate for my instructor to ask me questions and then make me feel stupid if I didn't give the right answer (for stuff I hadn't been taught yet) or make me feel stupid for asking questions that my instructor believed were common sense.

The F**k that was in reference to the instructor who could have simply given some constructive criticism and instead chose to give there student a look that was interpreated as "Maybe he just hates me?" by the student. It may be overly harsh but ...

PS: I only jumped once that day even though I was successful on my jump because I didn't feel like taking another lesson with the instructor or jumping again with them (and this is coming from someone who can't stop thinking about skydiving).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[itsokrelax 0]

Yea thats what I got out of it too. I mean I acknowledged that I would look to make sure my instructors had my pilot chute when they say they do. My own intent was to lighten the mood by saying that. I mean he didn't even let me finish the sentence before continuing. That IMO was pretty dickish and if he didn't want to be instructing than he should have let one of the other instructors do it.
My very first instructor had a joke for every other sentence...and I think I learned the most from him.

[Butters 0]

Just a side note, I did talk to the instructor and have now taken two courses and jumps with the instructor that were both educational and fun. Maybe we were both just having a bad day? Always nice to remain open and give second chances.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DJmikeD 0]

Good to hear that butters you will notice that every jump that you do will become more and more fun. Have a great time with it and the instructors will have more fun with you as you gain more knowledge of the sport.

Blue Sky’s

"Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part!
-DJ Mike

[popsjumper 2]

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your POV, people are different and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Instructors are people too and each has his/her own demeanor. Find one you like and work him for all the knowledge you can...just try not to interrupt his work. Picture a movie star's private time being interrupted by autograph seekers.

For those of you sitting back waiting for someone to approach you before you ask questions, please try to break yourself of that habit. Most of us are only too willing and too happy to answer your questions or direct you to someone who knows better than we.

Just realize that people are different and not all will respond to you in a manner that you like...again, find one of us who knows his stuff and will take the necessary time to help you. There's lots of us out here.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239