Is/Was there a nuclear disaster in Japan?

[airdvr 210]

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/14/japan-quake-rods-idUSTKB00733720110314

Well, seeing how dumping raw sea water into a reactor to cool it has been described as something akin to a "hail mary pass" in the nuclear world, things aren't looking up. I still think that it is a viable energy source for our future, though.

Am I the only one who wishes Bush Jr. was still around the media a lot so I could hear him describe the "newkler" accident?

No....we Jimmy Carter's daughter to talk about Newkewler power.

As it has been with just about every other nuke power incident we are a long ways away from knowing what happened and how it can be avoided in the future. In my lifetime I've seen the promise of nuke power quashed by the left and revived. I hope it doesn't get squashed again.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DanG 1]

Although the leftist environmentalists do have a strong responsibility for disrupting the advance of nuclear power, the oil and coal lobby doesn't want to see it developed either. It's the best alternative for baseline power we have. I think nuclear needs to be advanced significantly if we're ever going to stop sucking the Middle East's collective dicks.

- Dan G

[masterblaster72 0]

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Am I the only one who wishes Bush Jr. was still around the media a lot so I could hear him describe the "newkler" accident?

Yes, I sure wish he were still around...if nothing else, just for that.

I always thought the spelling was "nukyuler"...but being that you're from his neck of the woods, I defer to your judgment.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]the oil and coal lobby doesn't want to see it developed either

[masterblaster72 0]

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And the chances of a Chernobyl-type incident are really really remote because there isn't any runaway reaction.

Yup, that's what the experts are saying.

What we're really witnessing is a media-quake designed to keep a tsunami of viewers glued to their television screens.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[airdvr 210]

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And the chances of a Chernobyl-type incident are really really remote because there isn't any runaway reaction.

Yup, that's what the experts are saying.

What we're really witnessing is a media-quake designed to keep a tsunami of viewers glued to their television screens.

Think twice about that...

New blast shakes nuclear plant
http://www.cnn.com/

It is not by any stretch of the imagination 'shut down' It's not like turning off a light bulb.

It's a controlled nuclear detonation in a can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJ-BzXAN1c

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But since, by all appearances, the containment building is working then that's good. And the chances of a Chernobyl-type incident are really really remote because there isn't any runaway reaction.

Sorry but I think you're wrong on that one. Workers are being evacuated and the #4 reactor at a different site is now on fire. This looks amazingly like Chernobyl X 4

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[lawrocket 3]

The explosions are likely explosions of hydrogen gas. The presence of hydrogen gas would indicate a couple of things:
(1) the temperature in the core is at or above 1850 degrees; and
(2) coolant is actually making it there.

The fuel rods are constructed with zirconium because it was found to allow the neutrons to pass freely. There's a problem with zirconium - when it gets hot it likes to oxidize. When it sucks oxygen out of water it releases hydrogen. Hydrogen goes "boom" really easily.

None of this is fun or nominal. But it also can tell about some things tha are going on.

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It is not by any stretch of the imagination 'shut down' It's not like turning off a light bulb.

I didn't say it was. I wrote that a shut down does not cease the reactions. Rather, it slows them and they slowly taper off. That's why it's important to still have coolant going through it.

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This looks amazingly like Chernobyl X 4

I disagree. Chernobyl was a pretty quick "BOOM" that happened before anybody could really react to it. This appears to be more of a multiple TMI incident - again, far from nominal but not something that is disastrous for things other than the lack of desperately needed power at this time.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airdvr 210]

True...but whether it's a boom or a fizzle, if the containment vessel is breached to the atmosphere the end result is the same.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,106]

I wouldn't bet on any outcome at this point.

(BTW, I used to be consultant for Babcock & Wilcox nuclear reactor division on the manufacture of Zircaloy fuel tubes, and an affiliate at Los Alamos National Lab).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 851]

Weren't they the designers of TMI?
Did they survive bankruptcy?

I remember them being a MAJOR supplier of Navy boilers as well as reactors.

[lawrocket 3]

I agree, Prof. But if I had to make a bet, I'd bet against the Chernobyl outcome.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,106]

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Weren't they the designers of TMI?
Did they survive bankruptcy?

I remember them being a MAJOR supplier of Navy boilers as well as reactors.

Yes, yes and yes. The bankruptcy was caused by asbestos claims, not TMI. TMI accident was due to a stuck valve in the secondary (non nuclear) side of the plant, followed by operator error.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,072]

>It's a controlled nuclear detonation in a can.

Well, it's definitely not that. BWR's cannot go prompt-critical (i.e. undergo a "nuclear detonation.")

[1969912 0]

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>It's a controlled nuclear detonation in a can.

Well, it's definitely not that. BWR's cannot go prompt-critical (i.e. undergo a "nuclear detonation.")

Quite true. Diablopilot made a really good post on the subject here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4078128;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=50;#4078885

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Andy9o8 2]

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I agree, Prof. But if I had to make a bet, I'd bet against the Chernobyl outcome.

I hope you're right, but it's still very fluid right now:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2

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Official: Japan's nuclear situation nearing severity of Chernobyl
By Alanne Orjoux, CNN
March 15, 2011 -- Updated 1912 GMT

(CNN) -- The explosion Tuesday at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has elevated the situation there to a "serious accident" on a level just below Chernobyl, a French nuclear official said, referring to an international scale that rates the severity of such incidents.

The International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale -- or INES -- goes from Level 1, which indicates very little danger to the general population, to Level 7, a "major accident" in which there's been a large release of radioactive material and there will be widespread health and environmental effects.

"It's clear we are at Level 6, that's to say we're at a level in between what happened at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl," Andre-Claude Lacoste, president of France's nuclear safety authority, told reporters Tuesday.

Japanese nuclear authorities initially rated the incident at Level 4, according to Greg Webb of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Level 4 is characterized as a minor release of radioactive material that necessitates only measures to control food due to contamination. But in the latest information about the explosion, Japanese authorities did not give it a rating, Webb said, and the IAEA is not putting a number on it either.

Whatever the level, many experts warn that it's too early, and there's too little information, to determine what it means for the people who live in the region near the Daiichi plant.

"We don't know enough to assess the long-term or short-term effects of this," said Dr. Kirby Kemper, a noted nuclear physicist, physics professor and vice president of research at Florida State University.

...

Trying to place the situation on the INES scale is premature, said David Brenner, director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University.

"I've been asked to put a number on it a few times and I've resisted," he said.

[masterblaster72 0]

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Think twice about that...

Right you are...my optimism got the best of me.

If Michio Kaku, a renowned physicist, is saying that the reactors are near a full-scale meltdown, then I suppose we're near a full-scale meltdown.

Interview with Michio Kaku (allow 15 seconds for advertisement)



We shall hope for the best.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[lawrocket 3]

I have mad respect for Dr. Kaku because of his talents as a theoretical physicist, educator and all-around good guy.

However, he has been outspoken for decades against nuclear power, nuclear weapons, greenhouse warming, etc. Dr. Kaku is an amazing guy, but he's a theoretical physicist. An astrophysicist. He knows a helluva lot more than I know but I cannot help but think that his past advocacy has much to do with his statements.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

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I have mad respect for Dr. Kaku because of his talents as a theoretical physicist, educator and all-around good guy.

However, he has been outspoken for decades against nuclear power, nuclear weapons, greenhouse warming, etc. Dr. Kaku is an amazing guy, but he's a theoretical physicist. An astrophysicist. He knows a helluva lot more than I know but I cannot help but think that his past advocacy has much to do with his statements.

Well, that, and the reality of the situation as it currently stands.

Anyone that is still denying there is a nuclear disaster happening in Japan is more than welcome to visit the plant themselves. I eagerly await your iReport on CNN.

Seriously, if a person is in denial at this point, what the hell would it take?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Without a doubt Japan is going through a difficult time right now, but here is an example of the domestic media up here in Canuckistan going too far. Oh my a 4.7 earthquake just hit Western Quebec. Stop the presses people as this 4.7 shaking is now the #1 "Breaking News" domestic story for the Mother Corps and their loyal lemmings.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2011/03/16/earthquake-western-quebec.html

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[marks2065 0]

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Anyone that is still denying there is a nuclear disaster happening in Japan is more than welcome to visit the plant themselves. I eagerly await your iReport on CNN.

Seriously, if a person is in denial at this point, what the hell would it take?

A big bright light, a large boom and a large amount of wind?

[quade 4]

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.
Anyone that is still denying there is a nuclear disaster happening in Japan is more than welcome to visit the plant themselves. I eagerly await your iReport on CNN.
Seriously, if a person is in denial at this point, what the hell would it take?

A big bright light, a large boom and a large amount of wind?

I guess those would be the same kind of folks that were in denial right up until the moment Krypton blew up.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

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Seriously, if a person is in denial at this point, what the hell would it take?

cookies

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,106]

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Without a doubt Japan is going through a difficult time right now

"Difficult"? An interesting way to describe a 9.0 earthquake followed by a devastating tsunami and explosions in a nuke plant.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dirtbox 0]

Ok interesting poll - more interesting is the lack of understanding/education regarding nuclear power (not that I understand or am more educated on the matter than anyone else - I'm just smart enough to know I am not instead of running around thinking the world is going to end... only just

I live in South Korea and get to watch the CNN Asia news channel and ffs American journalism is sad (I was journalist before coming here to 'teach' English). Listening to CNN Asia you would think that half the population of Japan has turned green, sprouted extra limbs and started consuming babies for breakfast. You would also think everyone in the Middle East has dropped their weapons and formed a big camp circle and started singing songs from the Lion King; such is their (CNN's) inability to focus on more than one issue at a time.

Based on what I have been able to find elsewhere, and buried amongst fear mongering articles on other sites, the current radiation levels are less than that of a chest x-ray. This could of course increase but even in the event of melt down it is expected to have minimal impact on areas further than 30km from the reactor site... yet I see maps showing fallout clouds that are sweeping across America and all sorts of other crazy stuff.

A rant against shitty journalism and stupid mass-media consumers blindly believing everything worth about 1.5 cents

[airdvr 210]

There is quite a difference between blindly believeing any news source and listening to what they say.

When I read a paper I look for the story inside the story. Same for TV. There has been a wealth of dis-information on the nuke story but some things ring true throughout. When the Japanese government double the allowable level of radiation it's workers are exposed to I know there is radiation leaking from those plants. When they cancelled the helicopter ops because of radiation levels I know there is radiation leaking. When they pull their workers back I know you have a radiation leak.

The only question left for me is whether you and I think radiation leaking uncontrolled from a nuke power plant is a disaster or not, and even that is semantics.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne