virgin-burner 1 #1 March 22, 2011 http://www.news.com.au/world/us-army-apologises-for-kill-team-photos-of-andrew-holmes-and-jeremy-morlock-with-afghans/story-e6frfkyi-1226026155676 one would think people learned out of abu ghraib.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 March 22, 2011 So two or three sick ducks committed murder. Now they're being tried for it, one will likely plea guilty, and the other will be convicted. So what are you saying, that all soldiers are like this? That this was approved by the Army? Other than bashing soldiers, what's your point? And why compare it to Abu Ghraib? Now I'll wait for amazon and the other blackwater bashers to pop in and tell us how this is different from the contractors who did the same thing.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #3 March 22, 2011 Quote And why compare it to Abu Ghraib?. when you do dirty stuff, don't bring back photo souvenirs.... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #4 March 22, 2011 I think the Abu Ghraib reference was to the thoughtless and callous photos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 March 22, 2011 Quote I think the Abu Ghraib reference was to the thoughtless and callous photos. yup to you and piisfish.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 March 22, 2011 Quote Quote I think the Abu Ghraib reference was to the thoughtless and callous photos. yup to you and piisfish.. ...Which says nothing of substance. All wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. Abu Graib was particularly noteworthy for the wide scope of its abuses, combined with the extent of the post-event conspiracy to conceal evidence of wrongdoing. Now then: if you think this is comparable, don't just bark out slogans; make your case out thoughtfully, using specific examples and cogent arguments. That's how it's done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #7 March 22, 2011 QuoteAll wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. only reprehensible if you get caught. Taking THOUSANDS of pictures is a good way to get caught...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #8 March 22, 2011 Given that the military is requiring photos of combatant deaths to use for identification, it's a bit of a double edged sword isn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #9 March 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I think the Abu Ghraib reference was to the thoughtless and callous photos. yup to you and piisfish.. ...Which says nothing of substance. All wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. Abu Graib was particularly noteworthy for the wide scope of its abuses, combined with the extent of the post-event conspiracy to conceal evidence of wrongdoing. Now then: if you think this is comparable, don't just bark out slogans; make your case out thoughtfully, using specific examples and cogent arguments. That's how it's done. maybe the US of A army should take out a maturity-test on their solders first.. posing with dead/tortured/whatever prisoners or combatants.. doesnt fill in the picture of "mature".“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #10 March 22, 2011 OK, well, when you're ready to post something other than snappy 1-liners, let us know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #11 March 22, 2011 +1 If you've got something to say, say it. There are lots of horrible acts and callous photos out there. If you haven't got anything else to tie them together then your OP is just incoherent whining. If you have a case, make it.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #12 March 22, 2011 QuoteGiven that the military is requiring photos of combatant deaths to use for identification, it's a bit of a double edged sword isn't it?I wasn't aware of that... So as long as they don't do "bunny ears" on the corpses it should be okscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #13 March 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteAll wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. only reprehensible if you get caught. Taking THOUSANDS of pictures is a good way to get caught... It's worth noting that the court marshall / investigation of these soldiers (and I believe at least one negotiated guilty plea) had been going on for quite a while before Der Spiegel obtained / published these photos. In other words the photos were indeed evidence but didn't have much to do with them "getting caught." I say that because it's my opinion there is a material difference between the military self-policing and the military only doing something because the media outed them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #14 March 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteGiven that the military is requiring photos of combatant deaths to use for identification, it's a bit of a double edged sword isn't it?I wasn't aware of that... So as long as they don't do "bunny ears" on the corpses it should be ok I wasn't aware of that, either. But if that is the procedure, the photos should be taken, and then handled, in an ethically proper manner, much the way (for example) police photographs of dead bodies are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #15 March 22, 2011 Can you think of any group, profession, or activity that doesn't have its screwups jerkoffs and psychopaths? The Army found out about them, arrested them, is prosecuting them, and will likely convict them and punish them more harshly than the civilian system would. What do you want?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #16 March 22, 2011 Quote Can you think of any group, profession, or activity that doesn't have its screwups jerkoffs and psychopaths? ? are you your own rigger ?? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #17 March 22, 2011 Quote So two or three sick ducks committed murder. Now they're being tried for it, one will likely plea guilty, and the other will be convicted. So what are you saying, that all soldiers are like this? That this was approved by the Army? Other than bashing soldiers, what's your point? And why compare it to Abu Ghraib? Now I'll wait for amazon and the other blackwater bashers to pop in and tell us how this is different from the contractors who did the same thing. Thank god Blackwater has YOU to protect them day in and day out for ANYTHING they have done or may wish to do in the future. DUUUUDE get on their payroll.. you can use these threads as part of your "resume" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 March 22, 2011 QuoteQuoteAll wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. only reprehensible if you get caught. Taking THOUSANDS of pictures is a good way to get caught... Perhaps they should have SUPER GLUED some antlers onto the dead bodies and strapped them to the hood of a HUMVEE for some great mementos of their excellent adventures in Asia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #19 March 22, 2011 QuoteCan you think of any group, profession, or activity that doesn't have its screwups jerkoffs and psychopaths? The Army found out about them, arrested them, is prosecuting them, and will likely convict them and punish them more harshly than the civilian system would. What do you want? well, dont you, andy and whoever always point out that your LEO's, army, etc., only do what they have to do, and are doing it right!? there, those pictures prove you wrong; again, as in abu ghraib.. since you're so rightful in your little world which is so full of yourself, can YOU tell me why it aint so? if you go hunting and pose with your prey, well, do so, i think it's pretty sick too, but hey, please have the decency to leave your combatants alone for the sake of your wanna-be bigger dick.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #20 March 22, 2011 Quote Perhaps they should have SUPER GLUED some antlers onto the dead bodies and strapped them to the hood of a HUMVEE for some great mementos of their excellent adventures in Asia. I like that - that's funny.mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #21 March 22, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I think the Abu Ghraib reference was to the thoughtless and callous photos. yup to you and piisfish.. ...Which says nothing of substance. All wars involve occasional atrocities beyond combat. Reprehensible, but true. All prisons have occasional abuses of prisoners by guards. Reprehensible, but true. Abu Graib was particularly noteworthy for the wide scope of its abuses, combined with the extent of the post-event conspiracy to conceal evidence of wrongdoing. Now then: if you think this is comparable, don't just bark out slogans; make your case out thoughtfully, using specific examples and cogent arguments. That's how it's done. In some cases, really bad atrocities can change public opinion about a war. The My Lai massacre was arguably a turning point in America's support for the Vietnam war. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/my_lai.html Some people argue that our war in Afghanistan is causing unjustified and needless civilian caualties. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2010/0223/Afghanistan-war-As-civilian-deaths-rise-NATO-says-Sorry. Are these casualties changing America's support for the war? Hard to say, but it seems like this is what the OP is concerned about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #22 March 22, 2011 Christian Science Monitor???? Seriously??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #23 March 22, 2011 Just watched a video of the two charged American soldiers. One clearly says 'I was only following orders' he claims the entire unit was committing murder and then making it look like justified killing. This is a fantastic coup for the Taliban recruitment. No doubt that the actions of these two men (and possibly their unit) will directly lead to the deaths of other US & UK soldiers. If found guilty these men should get the DP.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 March 22, 2011 Quote Christian Science Monitor???? Seriously??? Well, at least it's not Fox News.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #25 March 22, 2011 Quote maybe the US of A army should take out a maturity-test on their solders first.. posing with dead/tortured/whatever prisoners or combatants.. doesnt fill in the picture of "mature". When the armies of all nations stop recruiting teenagers, then we might expect maturity in soldiers. Mature old geezers don't make good grunts.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
