yay, way to go "kill team" america!!!

[rushmc 23]

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Can you think of any group, profession, or activity that doesn't have its screwups jerkoffs and psychopaths? The Army found out about them, arrested them, is prosecuting them, and will likely convict them and punish them more harshly than the civilian system would. What do you want?

well, dont you, andy and whoever always point out that your LEO's, army, etc., only do what they have to do, and are doing it right!?

there, those pictures prove you wrong; again, as in abu ghraib..

since you're so rightful in your little world which is so full of yourself, can YOU tell me why it aint so?

if you go hunting and pose with your prey, well, do so, i think it's pretty sick too, but hey, please have the decency to leave your combatants alone for the sake of your wanna-be bigger dick.

this makes abu ghraib seem like a dip in the kiddy pool

Funny how the media treats this so different than that one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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maybe the US of A army should take out a maturity-test on their solders first.. posing with dead/tortured/whatever prisoners or combatants.. doesnt fill in the picture of "mature".

When the armies of all nations stop recruiting teenagers, then we might expect maturity in soldiers.

Mature old geezers don't make good grunts.

This is a failure in leadership

How many has the US got carrying guns today?
If you were anywhere near correct this would be happening much more

When the leaders do not lead then things like this and the shooter at the base happen

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

This was an isolated group of as few as two men committing atrocities. Abu Ghraib was a systemic and intentional committing of war crimes from the highest level down. The situations are not the same at all, and the media should not treat them the same.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

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This was an isolated group of as few as two men committing atrocities. Abu Ghraib was a systemic and intentional committing of war crimes from the highest level down. The situations are not the same at all, and the media should not treat them the same.

Really?

well there we go then Danny has the inside scoop and has it all nailed

by the way

bull shit

sheesh



and it was more than two

better find better news sources

but that is hard to do when the washington news sources (remember all the pictures from Iraq? Well the Obama admin is trying to stop a bunch more of the this last mess from comming out) protect Obamas ass (as he is the chozen Dem)

So I guess I understand

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Can you write a complete sentence for once? You are not making an argument, so I can't respond.

Get back to me when you have something to say.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

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Can you write a complete sentence for once? You are not making an argument, so I can't respond.

Get back to me when you have something to say.

After you have posted something truthful I will try

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AndyBoyd 0]

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Christian Science Monitor????
Seriously???

There are lots of sources reporting on civilian casualties in the war. That just happenned to be the one I picked. Here's another one.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/09/afghan-war-civilian-deaths-highest-yet-in-2010-un.html

To be fair to our troops, this article indicates that 75% of civilian casualties are caused by insurgents rather than coalition forces. Still, it is clear that Afghani civilians are getting hit hard from both sides, and that this is causing an erosion of support for the war.

"“In a year of intensified armed conflict, with a surge of activity by pro-government forces and increased use of improvised explosive devices and assassinations by anti-government elements, Afghan civilians paid the price with their lives in even greater numbers in 2010,” said Ivan Simonovic, the UN’s assistant secretary-general for human rights."

[masterblaster72 0]

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So two or three sick ducks committed murder. Now they're being tried for it, one will likely plea guilty, and the other will be convicted. So what are you saying, that all soldiers are like this? That this was approved by the Army? Other than bashing soldiers, what's your point?

And why compare it to Abu Ghraib?

Now I'll wait for amazon and the other blackwater bashers to pop in and tell us how this is different from the contractors who did the same thing.

Thank god Blackwater has YOU to protect them day in and day out for ANYTHING they have done or may wish to do in the future. DUUUUDE get on their payroll.. you can use these threads as part of your "resume"

Clicky

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Kennedy 0]

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So two or three sick ducks committed murder. Now they're being tried for it, one will likely plea guilty, and the other will be convicted. So what are you saying, that all soldiers are like this? That this was approved by the Army? Other than bashing soldiers, what's your point?

And why compare it to Abu Ghraib?

Now I'll wait for amazon and the other blackwater bashers to pop in and tell us how this is different from the contractors who did the same thing.

Thank god Blackwater has YOU to protect them day in and day out for ANYTHING they have done or may wish to do in the future. DUUUUDE get on their payroll.. you can use these threads as part of your "resume"

OK, so Blackwater had their head cases who were guilty (and hopefully hellbound). And the US Army has had Abu Grhaib, these sick fucks, and several others. So are you going to bash the Army the way you bash Blackwater, or is it "different"?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[masterblaster72 0]

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So two or three sick ducks committed murder. Now they're being tried for it, one will likely plea guilty, and the other will be convicted. So what are you saying, that all soldiers are like this? That this was approved by the Army? Other than bashing soldiers, what's your point?

And why compare it to Abu Ghraib?

Now I'll wait for amazon and the other blackwater bashers to pop in and tell us how this is different from the contractors who did the same thing.

Thank god Blackwater has YOU to protect them day in and day out for ANYTHING they have done or may wish to do in the future. DUUUUDE get on their payroll.. you can use these threads as part of your "resume"

OK, so Blackwater had their head cases who were guilty (and hopefully hellbound). And the US Army has had Abu Grhaib, these sick fucks, and several others. So are you going to bash the Army the way you bash Blackwater, or is it "different"?

I'm not answering for Amazon, but are you implying that Blackwater-->Xe Services-->ustraining.com and the US Military are one in the same?

I find the idea of a private military company utterly despicable and quite dangerous, and I don't think there are any parallels to be drawn between that bloody corporation and the comparatively venerable US Military.

What are your opinions on private military contractors? I'm curious and open to hearing the positive points, because frankly I don't see any.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Kennedy 0]

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I'm not answering for Amazon, but are you implying that Blackwater-->Xe Services-->ustraining.com and the US Military are one in the same?

They're not the same at all. But then again, the company running training courses in Moyock isn't the same as Blackwater, either. My point was that there were private contractors, a small percentage of which did horrible things, and there are men and women serving in teh military, and small percentage of which have done horrible things. Amazon likes to bash contractors based on what a few did. I'm wondering if she is going to bash the military based on the same thing, or explain how this time is "different".

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I find the idea of a private military company utterly despicable and quite dangerous, and I don't think there are any parallels to be drawn between that bloody corporation and the comparatively venerable US Military.

While I share your esteem for the military and our service men and women, I don't share your disdain for all contractors, especially since so many of them are formed service men and women. I've known a few, and they were by and large very decent folks, just like most military folks I've known. I would also point out that the contractors never were a private military. That is particularly true of US Training in Moyock, NC, because as far as I know, they are only involved in training. I don't think they export talent except to train federal employees who will do the heavy lifting. Here in the states they train feds, state and local employees, civilians, and private contractors. Not exactly a devastating military force, eh?

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What are your opinions on private military contractors? I'm curious and open to hearing the positive points, because frankly I don't see any.

If there were no point to them existing, then why are numerous agencies and departments using them, and why are they used by administrations from both R and D?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Trae 1]

in reply to "What are your opinions on private military contractors? I'm curious and open to hearing the positive points, because frankly I don't see any. "
.......................

When you say ' private military contractors ' do you mean mercenaries?
Mercenaries have been in use militarily since militarily existed and their positive aspects are many and varied.
The dangerous and despicable precedents you allude to have been happening for thousands of years usually performed by non-mercenary armies in the name of god and country.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I'm not answering for Amazon, but are you implying that Blackwater-->Xe Services-->ustraining.com and the US Military are one in the same?

They're not the same at all. But then again, the company running training courses in Moyock isn't the same as Blackwater, either. My point was that there were private contractors, a small percentage of which did horrible things, and there are men and women serving in teh military, and small percentage of which have done horrible things. Amazon likes to bash contractors based on what a few did. I'm wondering if she is going to bash the military based on the same thing, or explain how this time is "different".

Quote

I find the idea of a private military company utterly despicable and quite dangerous, and I don't think there are any parallels to be drawn between that bloody corporation and the comparatively venerable US Military.

While I share your esteem for the military and our service men and women, I don't share your disdain for all contractors, especially since so many of them are formed service men and women. I've known a few, and they were by and large very decent folks, just like most military folks I've known. I would also point out that the contractors never were a private military. That is particularly true of US Training in Moyock, NC, because as far as I know, they are only involved in training. I don't think they export talent except to train federal employees who will do the heavy lifting. Here in the states they train feds, state and local employees, civilians, and private contractors. Not exactly a devastating military force, eh?

Quote

What are your opinions on private military contractors? I'm curious and open to hearing the positive points, because frankly I don't see any.

If there were no point to them existing, then why are numerous agencies and departments using them, and why are they used by administrations from both R and D?

Thanks for your viewpoints. To answer your question, I would answer it in part with another question: Why has there not been a need for private military contracting personnel in the past? My impression is that the military contracting companies are a product of the increasing corruption of the "military-industrial complex" that Eisenhower warned us to keep at bay back in the late 50's. Yes, many of your average employees are former military personnel, but then so are the many of the top executives and founders of these companies. They see an opportunity, through lobbying and nepotism, to gain multi-million dollar contracts through taxpayer money that would otherwise have been spent by our government directly on the military in decades past. Of course, they couldn't make this kind of money being in the military to begin with, so I understand the financial motive...but that doesn't make it right.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

in reply to "What are your opinions on private military contractors? I'm curious and open to hearing the positive points, because frankly I don't see any. "
.......................

When you say ' private military contractors ' do you mean mercenaries?
Mercenaries have been in use militarily since militarily existed and their positive aspects are many and varied.
The dangerous and despicable precedents you allude to have been happening for thousands of years usually performed by non-mercenary armies in the name of god and country.

Right you are. I suppose I'm being naive in thinking that we should learn from history after thousands of years.

The emperor Claudius, for example, intended to restore the Roman republic not long after being chosen by the Praetorian guard that killed Caligula, his predecessor. He couldn't restore the republic, because the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's private army of bodyguard thugs) wanted to keep their jobs and basically kept the emperors where they were (or killed them) at swordpoint. So, the empire lasted for another 400+ years, and that wasn't necessarily a good thing.

Just one example of how "mercenaries," or however you want to call them, can be dangerous -- I see similarities between the Roman example and the ever-growing war machine in this country.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[DanG 1]

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After you have posted something truthful I will try

Abu Ghraib was a systemic and intentional committing of war crimes from the highest level down. The situations are not the same at all, and the media should not treat them the same.

Please respond.

- Dan G

[Kennedy 0]

US soldier gets 24 years for murders of 3 Afghans

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JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash. – A U.S. soldier who pleaded guilty Wednesday to the murders of three Afghan civilians was sentenced to 24 years in prison after saying "the plan was to kill people" in a conspiracy with four fellow soldiers.

Military judge Lt. Col. Kwasi Hawks said he initially intended to sentence Spc. Jeremy Morlock to life in prison with possibility of parole but was bound by the plea deal.

Morlock, the first of five soldiers from the 5th Stryker Brigade to be court-martialed in the case, will receive 352 days off of his sentence for time served and could be eligible for parole in about seven years, said his lead attorney, Frank Spinner. He will be dishonorably discharged as part of his sentence.

snip...

The really juicy/disturbing stuff is later in the article.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Skyrad 0]

I wonder if he would have got 24 years still if the people he killed had been Americans? It will be interesting to see what the others get. If found guilty they will have disgraced their uniform, their country and committed murder and aided the enemy, if that doesn't deserve the DP what does?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

Well, he was the one who made a deal, and the judge said he was leaning towards a life sentence, so it's not that surprising. It will really tell when the others are sentenced after a guilty plea or a conviction.

If there was a ringleader, I'd support a sentence of "short drop and a suddent stop." Life in a federal pen should suffice otherwise.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[GQ_jumper 4]

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Quote

maybe the US of A army should take out a maturity-test on their solders first.. posing with dead/tortured/whatever prisoners or combatants.. doesnt fill in the picture of "mature".

When the armies of all nations stop recruiting teenagers, then we might expect maturity in soldiers.

Mature old geezers don't make good grunts.

We need to bring the recruitment standards back up, I'm tired of serving with dirtbags who shouldn't be in uniform in the first place. We also need to stop babying the recruits and actually try to instill some level of discipline in our young soldiers instead of constantly softening initial entry training to accommodate the more fragile psyches of the younger generation. The military would be a much better place if I could knock some sense into idiots like that every once in a while instead of talking to them kindly about what they did wrong like a father figure.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[billvon 2,990]

>The military would be a much better place if I could knock some sense
>into idiots like that . . .

Yes. I'm sure the level of abuse would go way down in the armed forces if soldiers could just beat the crap out of other soldiers more often.

[Skyrad 0]

Apparently the killing of Civvies was open knowledge among the 5th Stryker
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20110329/tts-uk-usa-soldiers-crimes-ca02f96.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[virgin-burner 1]

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,752849,00.html

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[DanG 1]

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Apparently the killing of Civvies was open knowledge among the 5th Stryker
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/...-crimes-ca02f96.html

That article is really weak. It doesn't provide anything to back up the headline whatsoever.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=14367



IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 247-11
March 28, 2011
Statement by the Army on Photographs Published by Rolling Stone

“The photos published by Rolling Stone are disturbing and in striking contrast to the standards and values of the United States Army. Like those published by Der Spiegel, the Army apologizes for the distress these latest photos cause. Accountability remains the Army’s paramount concern in these alleged crimes. Accordingly, we are in the midst of courts-martial, and we continue to investigate leads. We must allow the judicial process to continue to unfold and be mindful that the government has distinct obligations to the victims and to the accused, which include compliance with the court's protective order to ensure a fair trial. That said, the Army will relentlessly pursue the truth, no matter where it leads, both in and out of court, no matter how unpleasant it may be, no matter how long it takes. As an Army, we are troubled that any soldier would lose his ‘moral compass’ as one soldier said during his trial. We will continue to do whatever we need to as an institution to understand how it happened, why it happened and what we need to do to prevent it from happening again.”

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[virgin-burner 1]

Quote

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=14367



IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 247-11
March 28, 2011
Statement by the Army on Photographs Published by Rolling Stone

“The photos published by Rolling Stone are disturbing and in striking contrast to the standards and values of the United States Army. Like those published by Der Spiegel, the Army apologizes for the distress these latest photos cause. Accountability remains the Army’s paramount concern in these alleged crimes. Accordingly, we are in the midst of courts-martial, and we continue to investigate leads. We must allow the judicial process to continue to unfold and be mindful that the government has distinct obligations to the victims and to the accused, which include compliance with the court's protective order to ensure a fair trial. That said, the Army will relentlessly pursue the truth, no matter where it leads, both in and out of court, no matter how unpleasant it may be, no matter how long it takes. As an Army, we are troubled that any soldier would lose his ‘moral compass’ as one soldier said during his trial. We will continue to do whatever we need to as an institution to understand how it happened, why it happened and what we need to do to prevent it from happening again.”

as i said in the OP; one would think those measures should have been taken long time ago..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda