I bet this guy is buying stock in companies that manufacture bidets

[rushmc 23]

What a bunch of crap

Quote

Suttle unrolls toilet paper tax

http://www.omaha.com/article/20110323/NEWS01/703239866

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[shropshire 0]

Well, in these days of financial issues the politicos maybe scraping the bottom of the barrel but you have to take the rough with the smooth, if you want to be flushed with success.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wmw999 2,548]

How else to pay for sewer plant improvements? Sewer plants are very necessary, and totally unsexy.

I'm not saying this is the best way, but it is a use fee -- those who are causing more wear and tear on the sewer plant pay more, assuming that most toilet paper makes it into the toilet.

Only by proposing and discussing ideas can better ones be found.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

How else to pay for sewer plant improvements? Sewer plants are very necessary, and totally unsexy.

I'm not saying this is the best way, but it is a use fee -- those who are causing more wear and tear on the sewer plant pay more, assuming that most toilet paper makes it into the toilet.

Only by proposing and discussing ideas can better ones be found.

Wendy P.

On the serious side
These could be easily paid for if the gov would just take care of itself. Instead it wants to be a nanny with ideals driven by the social idealists who think the gov should take care of all the social ills and regulate everything up to and including how, when and what we take a dump with

On the side this thread was intended

we really need a sarchasm icon here

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Niki1 1]

That asshole!! What a shitty idea!!




Some one had to say it.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[wmw999 2,548]

Great. Apparently a new sewer plant is needed. Got any specific suggestions? "Be more efficient" is kind of like the boss dumping a lot of work on your desk and saying "work smarter, not harder."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

How else to pay for sewer plant improvements? Sewer plants are very necessary, and totally unsexy.

I'm not saying this is the best way, but it is a use fee -- those who are causing more wear and tear on the sewer plant pay more, assuming that most toilet paper makes it into the toilet.

Only by proposing and discussing ideas can better ones be found.

Wendy P.

On the serious side
These could be easily paid for if the gov would just take care of itself. Instead it wants to be a nanny with ideals driven by the social idealists who think the gov should take care of all the social ills and regulate everything up to and including how, when and what we take a dump with

On the side this thread was intended

we really need a sarchasm icon here

POLLUTE FIRST AND POLLUTE OFTEN... let there be no consequences for POLLUTING.. ever.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

How else to pay for sewer plant improvements? Sewer plants are very necessary, and totally unsexy.

I'm not saying this is the best way, but it is a use fee -- those who are causing more wear and tear on the sewer plant pay more, assuming that most toilet paper makes it into the toilet.

Only by proposing and discussing ideas can better ones be found.

Wendy P.

On the serious side
These could be easily paid for if the gov would just take care of itself. Instead it wants to be a nanny with ideals driven by the social idealists who think the gov should take care of all the social ills and regulate everything up to and including how, when and what we take a dump with

On the side this thread was intended

we really need a sarchasm icon here

POLLUTE FIRST AND POLLUTE OFTEN... let there be no consequences for POLLUTING.. ever.

what a shitty thing to say

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Great. Apparently a new sewer plant is needed. Got any specific suggestions? "Be more efficient" is kind of like the boss dumping a lot of work on your desk and saying "work smarter, not harder."

Wendy P.

Cool
you think taxing us more is a good idea

I dont
I think the gov should get its nose out of over half the crap it is now

They would then stop spending on shit they have no reason to spend on and as a consquence have some money to take care of what they are really there for to begin with

And yes

That mean stop funding a whole bunch of crap they fund today

That mean reducing the number of employees they have today

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,548]

Which particular crap should they stop doing? Or should they get out of the sewage treatment plant also?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,079]

>I think the gov should get its nose out of over half the crap it is now

So the government should stop maintaining the sewer system?

[Amazon 7]

Quote

>I think the gov should get its nose out of over half the crap it is now

So the government should stop maintaining the sewer system?

That would help solve the population problem. It seems that those who do not think the environment is very important to them... really do not mind that whole living in a festering cesspool all so much. It would only take a generation to get rid of those who do not think sanitation has anything to do with a civilized society.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>I think the gov should get its nose out of over half the crap it is now

So the government should stop maintaining the sewer system?

Nope

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

This is a nearly perfect example of so many things that I think are wrong with government operations. Sewage (a local issue) is determined to need improvements by the federal government, which costs a lot of money - so much that the Mayor is in DC seeking funds from Congress and suggests funding it with a national tax on toilet paper of 10 cents a roll to help with the local issue.

Sewage, being an unsexy issue, hasn't received the funding it requires BECAUSE it is unsexy. Much like road maintenance is unsexy. Bridge maintenance is unsexy. Underground pipes? Really unsexy are the sewer pipes. Add to that the political unpleasantness of tearing up streets. Maintenance is political suicide.

Which is why we see steam pipes exploding, bridges failing, sinkholes forming, etc. It just is not a sexy thing to spend money on.

Wouldn't it be nice to do things like assessing property taxes on the owners of the properties using the facilities? Don't we all pay for our utilities? Why tax the whole country to help a locality raise the billions necessary for their sewers?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

This is a nearly perfect example of so many things that I think are wrong with government operations. Sewage (a local issue) is determined to need improvements by the federal government, which costs a lot of money - so much that the Mayor is in DC seeking funds from Congress and suggests funding it with a national tax on toilet paper of 10 cents a roll to help with the local issue.

Sewage, being an unsexy issue, hasn't received the funding it requires BECAUSE it is unsexy. Much like road maintenance is unsexy. Bridge maintenance is unsexy. Underground pipes? Really unsexy are the sewer pipes. Add to that the political unpleasantness of tearing up streets. Maintenance is political suicide.

Which is why we see steam pipes exploding, bridges failing, sinkholes forming, etc. It just is not a sexy thing to spend money on.

Wouldn't it be nice to do things like assessing property taxes on the owners of the properties using the facilities? Don't we all pay for our utilities? Why tax the whole country to help a locality raise the billions necessary for their sewers?

Because almost EVERYONE in the country is downstream from some one elses sewage effluent. Your local shit flows downstream to someone Jerry.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Quote

Quote

This is a nearly perfect example of so many things that I think are wrong with government operations. Sewage (a local issue) is determined to need improvements by the federal government, which costs a lot of money - so much that the Mayor is in DC seeking funds from Congress and suggests funding it with a national tax on toilet paper of 10 cents a roll to help with the local issue.

Sewage, being an unsexy issue, hasn't received the funding it requires BECAUSE it is unsexy. Much like road maintenance is unsexy. Bridge maintenance is unsexy. Underground pipes? Really unsexy are the sewer pipes. Add to that the political unpleasantness of tearing up streets. Maintenance is political suicide.

Which is why we see steam pipes exploding, bridges failing, sinkholes forming, etc. It just is not a sexy thing to spend money on.

Wouldn't it be nice to do things like assessing property taxes on the owners of the properties using the facilities? Don't we all pay for our utilities? Why tax the whole country to help a locality raise the billions necessary for their sewers?

Because almost EVERYONE in the country is downstream from some one elses sewage effluent. Your local shit flows downstream to someone Jerry.

You and I rarely agree, but you hit the nail on the head there. Anyway, I hope it goes through, for the purely selfish reason that I work as a consulting engineer to several municipalities and it would be great for business if they built some new plants. If you don't like it, you can always go take a shit on your mayor or city councilman's lawn- without TP, of course

[billvon 3,079]

>Nope

OK.

So let's say you're in charge. You get hit with a massive deficit as a result of the recession. You cut every less important program, lay people off, make other workers take a cut. It nearly gets you bounced out of office, but at the end of the day you (barely!) balance the budget.

Then the sewer guy shows up. "Hey boss, we need about 2 billion to upgrade the sewage system, or there's going to be poop floating in the reservoir."

What do you do?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Nope

OK.

So let's say you're in charge. You get hit with a massive deficit as a result of the recession. You cut every less important program, lay people off, make other workers take a cut. It nearly gets you bounced out of office, but at the end of the day you (barely!) balance the budget.

Then the sewer guy shows up. "Hey boss, we need about 2 billion to upgrade the sewage system, or there's going to be poop floating in the reservoir."

What do you do?

Fix it

Borrow the money like you or would have to then cut what ever expenses are nesessary to pay the bills

Unless of course you can go to your employer and just tell them you need more money cause your poop is a floatin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,079]

>Fix it. Borrow the money . . .

Fair enough. So deficit spending.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>Then the sewer guy shows up. "Hey boss, we need about 2 billion to upgrade the sewage system, or there's going to be poop floating in the reservoir."

What do you do?

Immediately start a public health campaign to inform people to concentrate their diets on proteins (and natural fats) and complex carbs over simple carbs and simple sugars.

"Poop shouldn't float - eat healthy" it's catchy, especially put to music

and THAT, sir, is called efficiency when you solve two problems with one action




edit: an easier alternative is to take the one richest guy in town and take away everything he owns and start building homes for anyone making less than $60k/year - there's still poop, but you get a lot of votes next election

- the now poor guy can get a job with a strainer and a bucket working for the city



edit edit: or use the money to just move everyone en masse to a new reservoir



seriously, doesn't anyone else here have great ideas like these, I'm carrying the entire load right now

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DougH 270]

Quote

Because almost EVERYONE in the country is downstream from some one elses sewage effluent. Your local shit flows downstream to someone Jerry.

My shit flows down stream into my septic tank and then my leach field, all of which are properly maintained.

Of course the septic company has to deal with what they pump out of the tank when I get it pumped, but that doesn't go into the sewer system either.

Why should my toilet paper tax pay for a sewer project in omaha, when I don't even have a sewer hookup?

Do I get a credit like the people using over the road diesel for non road uses?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Why should my toilet paper tax pay for a sewer project in omaha, when I don't even have a sewer hookup?

clearly you must hate children

have a nice day

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DougH 270]

Quote

Quote

Why should my toilet paper tax pay for a sewer project in omaha, when I don't even have a sewer hookup?

clearly you must hate children

have a nice day

Only when they are moving in to my town and replacing a previous old and low expense elderly resident.

A family with kids moving in costs way more to a town then the property tax they bring in. And think of all the shit they bring with them!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

This is a nearly perfect example of so many things that I think are wrong with government operations. Sewage (a local issue) is determined to need improvements by the federal government, which costs a lot of money - so much that the Mayor is in DC seeking funds from Congress and suggests funding it with a national tax on toilet paper of 10 cents a roll to help with the local issue.

Sewage, being an unsexy issue, hasn't received the funding it requires BECAUSE it is unsexy. Much like road maintenance is unsexy. Bridge maintenance is unsexy. Underground pipes? Really unsexy are the sewer pipes. Add to that the political unpleasantness of tearing up streets. Maintenance is political suicide.

Which is why we see steam pipes exploding, bridges failing, sinkholes forming, etc. It just is not a sexy thing to spend money on.

Wouldn't it be nice to do things like assessing property taxes on the owners of the properties using the facilities? Don't we all pay for our utilities? Why tax the whole country to help a locality raise the billions necessary for their sewers?

Because almost EVERYONE in the country is downstream from some one elses sewage effluent. Your local shit flows downstream to someone Jerry.

You and I rarely agree, but you hit the nail on the head there. Anyway, I hope it goes through, for the purely selfish reason that I work as a consulting engineer to several municipalities and it would be great for business if they built some new plants. If you don't like it, you can always go take a shit on your mayor or city councilman's lawn- without TP, of course

Absolutely! What Jeanne said is not wrong at all. It IS an issue with such things as sewer systems and the like and the issue is not limited to sewers.

Mike - you know what a problem Combined Sewage Overflow is for communities. For those that don't know what this is about, the sewage system operates just fine. That is, until it rains. Because the storm drains and the sewage system are combined, it usually doesn't take much rain to cause the sewage system to overflow and discharge stormwater mixed with untreated sewage into rivers, lakes, streams, oceans.

Omaha is apparently one of those places (usually found in the Northeast and the Rust Belt - older communities had these combined systems.) The usual solution is to add another series of pipes to separate the storm drainage from the sewer.

The federal government may get involved, but this is also something that should usually be considered at the state level. The FeEPA has had a CSO policy in place since 1994. http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/owm0111.pdf

The Policy specifically states that there will be considerations given to each community's ability to finance the long-term goals. The policy was issued 17 years ago. Past leadership of Omaha didn't do anythign of substance to act on it and then the State of Nebraska took issue with it - not the feds! So in October, 2009, Omaha introduced its long term plan. http://omahacso.com/docs/OmahaLTCP_Executive_Summary.pdf

So you've got Mayor Suttle in Omaha dealing with problems that have been passed along by leaders over the past 17 years not doing anything about the issue and now, probably legitimately, saying "We don't have the money."

His idea? Taken straight out of The Homeboy Shopping Network (from the great show "In Living Color" for you juveniles) "Who has mo money than they know what to do with? De GubMENT!" He heads out to DC and says, "We don't have enough money for this. Can you hook us up with some grants?"

Now, the mayor is being a bit smarter here. He's saying, "You know, there are hundreds of other places facing this problem. The federal government gave an 'unfunded mandate' to fix this stuff. Why don't you just tax something, like toilet paper?"

This is what gets me shaking my head. Omaha didn't do anything about it for over a decade. Now they are saying that they set a goal for 2024 to complete the project after the State of Nebraska sued them.

What the Mayor is doing is pulling a political card. Go to Washington and try to get an earmark. See if he can get $750 million from the government and another $500 billion for the other municipalities that need the same thing and direct the tax at communities serving, oh, maybe 40 or 50 million people. Taxing everybody at 10 cents a roll will help.

Jeanne - you vastly oversimplified my point. It was not about pollution. It was not about nuisances created by some and felt by others.

My point was about the creators of a nuisance, and the maintainers of a nuisance, get told to clean up their nuisance and go to the feds for money so everyone can pay for their problem that they've just been sitting on.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

So let's say you're in charge. You get hit with a massive deficit as a result of the recession. You cut every less important program, lay people off, make other workers take a cut. It nearly gets you bounced out of office, but at the end of the day you (barely!) balance the budget.

Fair enough.

Quote

Then the sewer guy shows up. "Hey boss, we need about 2 billion to upgrade the sewage system, or there's going to be poop floating in the reservoir."

It'd be swell if that's what happened. Rarely is it what happens.

As I put up there, the EPA announced its policy in 1994. Then next five years were pretty flush. Between 2003 and 2008, things were also pretty flush. During that time, cities like Omaha and others could have been and should have been takin those steps necessary to get up to snuff with the CSO issues.

Most of the larger municipalities worked with their respective states on getting something accomplished. Other municipalities entered into consent decrees with the state of the EPA.

Omaha has been dragging ass on this and now is in the position of having a more expensive fix combined with less time to fix it or face some steep fines.

This is NOT a new problem. It's an old problem. And just like any "public works project" if there is not the opportunity to build something new that all can see and name for a politician who helped secure the funding, it's not going to get accomplished.

Omaha shoud have been working on this HARD since President Clinton was re-elected and now its mayor is hoping for public money that other, more responsible municipalities have already built in and covered.

My wife is hotter than your wife.