The Church Vs. Science

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

The verse I gave is consistent with hydrology.

Vaguely and superficially, yes. But so what? What is the point?

Quote

btw, are you saying that people can't make scientifically accurate observations nor write about the physical world before it's sceintifically proven to your standards?

No, I'm saying that the authors of the bible noticing that rain falls down is not impressive or meaningful, nor does it get them a free pass on all the shit they did get wrong.

Given the Bible's evident weakness on the knowable, it's mind-boggling that anyone would trust it on the unknowable.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

No, Newton gets his points for explaining it.

Well, he got alot more than just points for explaining it...

Look, I wasn't trying to take away any credit from Newton. A very fundamental part of science is to make observations, and in many cases to observe the obvious. You gave me the crazy face because someone in the bible made an observation that rain fell downward.(which wasn't even my point, thanks) I simply noted that Newton also made an obvious observation. .

If you had ACTUALLY read Principia instead of spouting off from sheer ignorance you would know that what Newton did was very far from obvious.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

I guess your god hasn't heard of virga.

My comment was regarding the hydrolic cycle to convey a spiritual truth, not virga.

But, thanks...next time I'll use virga as an illustration of why atheist may lack spiritual germination.

The verse you quoted was WRONG, FALSE, INCORRECT and INCONSISTENT WITH SCIENCE (all at the same time)

"For as the rain and snow come down from heaven and do not return there without watering the earth..."
for some rain does indeed return without watering the Earth. Hence the bible is NOT consistent with what we know of hydrology.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[futuredivot 0]

Depends on what is meant by "come down"

I love these bash Christianity threads. It gives the liberals somewhere to post when Obama gets caught with his political dick in his hand and they're hiding from those threads.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Depends on what is meant by "come down"

If you have a problem understanding the concept of rain falling down, perhaps a dictionary would help.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

No, Newton gets his points for explaining it.

Well, he got alot more than just points for explaining it...

Look, I wasn't trying to take away any credit from Newton. A very fundamental part of science is to make observations, and in many cases to observe the obvious. You gave me the crazy face because someone in the bible made an observation that rain fell downward.(which wasn't even my point, thanks) I simply noted that Newton also made an obvious observation. .

If you had ACTUALLY read Principia instead of spouting off from sheer ignorance you would know that what Newton did was very far from obvious.

I thought it was illegal in most states to use "Principia" and "obvious" in the same sentence?
I tried reading it once. My eyes blurred, mind fogged up, and I got a headache. I then decided to let those with a more mathematical aptitude read and interpret it and teach me the fundamentals involved. That part was still plenty painful.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[quade 4]

Quote

I love these bash Christianity threads.

I absolutely adore when people talk about the Old Testament as if that is only part of Christianity.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jimbrown 0]

Quote

I think how people respond to these stoning laws tell more about the condition of their own heart rather than about God or the people to be stoned.

If you're willing to kill your fiance because you can, I think it just shows that you're very hateful unforgiving prick who is more concerned with his ego and never loved his woman to begin with, but rather only himself.

And if you wipe out entire populations simply because you can it shows you are a very hateful unforgiving prick of a God who is more concerned with your own ego and never loved his creation to begin with. but rather only Himself.

Peace ,
Jim B.

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Since science is blind to what it can't measure,

When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like.
Dark Matter
Dark Energy
Infinity
Zero
Length of their penis

Quote

...those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about....

Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary?

Do you really think infinity and zero fall in the realm of mythology?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Yes, this seems to be the general consensus from all those who were actually there to observe creation.

Eventually humankind will be able to observe the instant our universe was created, as optics and imaging software evolve.
You do realize that the stars that you observe in our sky are stars at an earlier point in their lives than present?
It is only a matter of time until we will be able to see the origin of our universe.
When that happens, how will religion deal with it?

Probably not going to happen. All credible models currently indicate the early Universe was quite dense and almost certainly opaque.

And despite how cool the concept was in The Hitchhker's Guide; there'll be no way to see the end either - regardless of whether it is closed or open.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[futuredivot 0]

Google "new covenant" and endeavor to know as much as you claim to.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[quade 4]

Quote

Google "new covenant" and endeavor to know as much as you claim to.

Google, "don't give a flying fuck" and see how much I care about your pathetic attempts to make sense out of the bible.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[futuredivot 0]

Quote

Quote

Google "new covenant" and endeavor to know as much as you claim to.

Google, "don't give a flying fuck" and see how much I care about your pathetic attempts to make sense out of the bible.

Loving that maturity, scrappy. I get the feeling that you just don't quite know how to deal with someone who doesn't care about a banning. Come on sweetheart-power trip on me.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[billvon 2,990]

This is getting even dumber than the usual religion arguments here,

The Bible is a religious book. It is intended for believers, and contains some history, and some morality, and some organizational info. It's not a science book, and it's silly to expect it to be accurate. That's akin to saying that Apollo 13 was an awful, awful movie because they got the orbital speed wrong in one of the scenes.

The Principia is a science book, and represents some early attempts at understanding the natural laws that make up our universe. It would be just as silly to expect morality out of the Principia as it would be to expect science out of the Bible.

[maadmax 0]

Given the Bible's evident weakness on the knowable, it's mind-boggling that anyone would trust it on the unknowable.

[Coreece 190]

Quote

I think what he's saying is the bible would have a lot more credibility if it's creation myth matched up a bit more closely with what we know to be true.

No, that's not what he's saying. Jakee would never find the bible credible until God zaps him with faith and spiritual life...speak for yourself.

But, seriously? Credibility? In this world?

Even if it were written at tedious length to your scientific standards with 15 syllable words, you know you'd still have to get passed the fact that we still believe in rising from the dead and all that jazz...right?

Quote

That there was light and dark which were days and all the grasses and plants existed BEFORE the sun and the moon were placed in the sky on the fourth day.

How the F was that supposed to work?

Well, we keep telling you guys that the bible isn't a science book nor is it meant to be used as such. It's a spiritual book used to understand human depravity and the character of God...and since the things of the spirit are set in opposition to the things of the physical, I don't suspect to find an answer that'll tickle your fleshly fancy.

...but I'll humor you with some numerological entertainment:

Since you are talking about the 16th and 17th verses from the beginning of the bible, I logically deduce the answer to this mystery to be found in the 17th and 16th verses from the end of the Bible.

You may wanna get that hippie lettuce ready, or whatever it is you do to prepare to transcend beyond the limits of the finite mind...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Quote

The verse I gave is consistent with hydrology.

Vaguely and superficially, yes. But so what? What is the point?

Fine, I'll concede my inference to biblical writers having some type of transcendant divine knowledge about evaporation since it may have been common knowledge around 1500 BC considering that that knowledge was being used as an analogy to convey a spiritual truth.

Quote

I'm saying that the authors of the bible noticing that rain falls down is not impressive or meaningful

true, but the analogy to convey the character of God IS meaningful to those who believe.

Quote

it's mind-boggling that anyone would trust it on the unknowable.

Yes, the unknowable is mind boggling...but by faith and the grace of God it's all been working out somehow.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

If you had ACTUALLY read Principia instead of spouting off

Ya, I was spouting off...funny how so many people lost their heads over a couple of words said in jest.

But I'm happy I was able to provide you with some entertainment, self confidence and the opportunity to display some arrogance.

Quote

what Newton did was very far from obvious.

True, trying to explain something as obvious as an apple falling off a tree was the challenge...and I bet you still don't fully understand it...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

don't give a flying fuck

Oh...I see.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

This is getting even dumber than the usual religion arguments here,

The Bible is a religious book. It is intended for believers, and contains some history, and some morality, and some organizational info. It's not a science book, and it's silly to expect it to be accurate. That's akin to saying that Apollo 13 was an awful, awful movie because they got the orbital speed wrong in one of the scenes.

The Principia is a science book, and represents some early attempts at understanding the natural laws that make up our universe. It would be just as silly to expect morality out of the Principia as it would be to expect science out of the Bible.

Nice...now that's some much appreciated and needed moderation right there.

Thanks!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[quade 4]

Quote

That's akin to saying that Apollo 13 was an awful, awful movie because they got the orbital speed wrong in one of the scenes.

I see you attempting to be the peacemaker here, but your analogy fails miserably.

The Bible, according to some, is telling us that "God" is so mighty he created the universe and everything in it. It goes to great lengths to to do that in the beginning.

It's not simply an observation about some minor factoid being wrong. It would be like saying Apollo 13 would still be an accurate movie if instead of men launching in a Saturn 5, unicorns flew a hot air balloon and even that would be a more accurate description of Apollo 13 than the story of Genesis is of the creation of the universe, earth and man.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Coreece 190]

Quote

I see you attempting to be the peacemaker here...

Or maybe he's just being a real moderator rather than just posing as one.

Quote

The Bible, according to some, is telling us that "God" is so mighty he created the universe and everything in it. It goes to great lengths to to do that in the beginning.

Great lengths?? The creation story is not even a page and a half long. That's like less than .01 pecent of the entire book...There are genealogies WAY longer than that!

Don't get so bent outta shape. Spirituality is practically the exact opposite of the physical...you're not supposed to understand.

btw, did you get my reference to Rev 22:5 about how we don't need a sun to provide light?

I believe in an infinite universe where all things are possible...Don't expect us to be ashamed of that.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[quade 4]

Ok, you don't like Genesis? How about Exodus? What ever happened to Moses' magic walking stick? People go on and on about the Ark, The 10 Commandments (or however you want to count them depending on your religion) or the Holy Grail, but what of the magic walking stick? What happened to that?

Or should we just stick with Genesis and talk about the Ark and all that water?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Google "new covenant" and endeavor to know as much as you claim to.

No wonder you're a future divot if the concept of "down" still eludes you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

what Newton did was very far from obvious.

True, trying to explain something as obvious as an apple falling off a tree was the challenge...and I bet you still don't fully understand it...

It is clear that you don't have any clue at all about what Newton concluded about gravitational attraction, the calculation of planetary masses, solar mass, lunar mass, and the orbits of planets and comets. I don't believe you have a clue about how he concluded that the force law was an inverse square law. Every post you make indicates total ignorance of the subject.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.