pirana 0 #51 March 28, 2011 Quote"For as the rain and snow come down from heaven and do not return there without watering the earth..." See, that's not so vague...but I'm sure some of you would say "Absurd, rain doesn't come from heaven!!!" Ok, ok...how bout this one then: "He draws up the drops of water, He draws them up, they distill rain from the mist which the clouds pour down. They drip upon man abundantly." OK, so they observed rain and commented on it's falling. Not sure of the relevance to the discussion. BTW, a lot of rain evaporates before reaching the ground. IIRC, at least the simple majority of rain falls without watering the Earth." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #52 March 28, 2011 QuoteBtw, the religious weren't the only ones who believed the world was flat you know. At least the Persians and Egyptians had deduced the Earth to be round before Jesus was even born. Very few people who bothered to investigate (even back then) thought the Earth to be flat. In fact, by the time the Europeans set off across the oceans, very few people at all believed the world to be flat. It is a myth that anyone of any learning at all thought Columbus (or anybody else of that time) would actually sail off the edge of the Earth - other than maybe those with a dogmatic agenda. Heck, they even came pretty close to calculating the circumference. So yes, it was only the huddled masses with no compunction to bother knowing, and the willfully ignorant religious who still thought the Earth to be flat." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #53 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote I was watching Nova tonight and it mentioned Galileo and the church...it reminded me of this essay that was posted here a long time ago. I thought it would be good SC Fodder for those who haven't seen it. SO......Thoughts, anyone? Since science is blind to what it can't measure, those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about, namely God. Likewise those who use the Bible as a science text book are equally wrong. The Bible is a guide to spiritual reality, not physical reality. I don't see any conflict between the two. ... That's because you can't measure the unmeasurable ... Mythology is like knitting fog. The sooner mankind gets over this crap the better we ALL will be. We have big enough problems in the REAL World without having to deal with the problems of a mythical one. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #54 March 28, 2011 QuoteQuote "For as the rain and snow come down from heaven and do not return there without watering the earth..." I guess your god hasn't heard of virga. What an ignorant god you worship. You... you... BLASPHEME! HERETIC! BURN HIM! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #55 March 28, 2011 Quote Since science is blind to what it can't measure, When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like. Dark Matter Dark Energy Infinity Zero Length of their penis Quote ...those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about.... Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #56 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote Since science is blind to what it can't measure, When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like. Dark Matter Dark Energy Infinity Zero Length of their penis Quote ...those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about.... Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #57 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Since science is blind to what it can't measure, When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like. Dark Matter Dark Energy Infinity Zero Length of their penis Quote ...those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about.... Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? It certainly never stopped religious leaders...or their followers, for that matter.I'd love to hear anything substantial by those on the side of religion here. C'Mon guys...enlighten us!!"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #58 March 28, 2011 QuoteYes, this seems to be the general consensus from all those who were actually there to observe creation. Eventually humankind will be able to observe the instant our universe was created, as optics and imaging software evolve. You do realize that the stars that you observe in our sky are stars at an earlier point in their lives than present? It is only a matter of time until we will be able to see the origin of our universe. When that happens, how will religion deal with it?"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #59 March 28, 2011 QuoteWell as I suspected I couldn't open your document... Perhaps you have a reliable link/source? I use Google Chrome as my browser. When I clicked the attachment it automatically downloaded. Maybe the .doc is hidden on your HD somewhere. Edit to replace iGoogle.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #60 March 28, 2011 Quote I was watching Nova tonight and it mentioned Galileo and the church...it reminded me of this essay that was posted here a long time ago. I thought it would be good SC Fodder for those who haven't seen it. SO......Thoughts, anyone? Since I am/was a professional counselor, I never thought of comparing the salvation from Jesus Christ to science until I started posting on SC. It seems most folks here are left brain dominant with very little right brain activity. For me, knowing Christ is a path to peace of mind and deliverance. Jesus will open up and enhance the creative side of your mental capacity.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #61 March 28, 2011 QuoteJesus will open up and enhance the creative side of your mental capacity. So . . . Jesus = LSD. Good to know.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #62 March 28, 2011 Quote You do realize that the stars that you observe in our sky are stars at an earlier point in their lives than present? the stars are, and continue to be, exactly as old as they are it's just the observation itself that's outdated Quote It is only a matter of time until we will be able to see the origin of our universe. Can you identify in which direction to look? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #63 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote You do realize that the stars that you observe in our sky are stars at an earlier point in their lives than present? the stars are, and continue to be, exactly as old as they are it's just the observation itself that's outdated Quote It is only a matter of time until we will be able to see the origin of our universe. Can you identify in which direction to look? Easy, glad you asked! http://wallace-id.com/centeroftheuniverse.html I hear the baked potatoes are out of this world!"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #64 March 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteJesus will open up and enhance the creative side of your mental capacity. So . . . Jesus = LSD. Good to know. Similar, the main difference is with LSD you just hang on until it's over. Jesus takes your hand and you walk the path together for all eternity. Have a good trip!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #65 March 28, 2011 Quote No, Newton gets his points for explaining it. Well, he got alot more than just points for explaining it... Look, I wasn't trying to take away any credit from Newton. A very fundamental part of science is to make observations, and in many cases to observe the obvious. You gave me the crazy face because someone in the bible made an observation that rain fell downward.(which wasn't even my point, thanks) I simply noted that Newton also made an obvious observation. One applied it to religion, the other science... What's the big deal? Everyone's wiggin' out...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #66 March 28, 2011 Quote So, if it is for "spritual development", why are you attempting to show the writer(s) understood the complexities of physics long before Newton? There are verses in the Bible that use observations of the physical world to convey a spiritual truth. I found the example I gave to be similar to scientific facts regarding hydrology. It's interesting to me... Quote Soooo...the Bible was written by those who were there? Ya, God...how did you think I was gonna answer that! Quote I prefer the logical explanation of cration No problem...I also like go to science to understand how the Universe works. I think I can honestly say that I never used the Bible for an open book science test...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #67 March 28, 2011 Quote I guess your god hasn't heard of virga. My comment was regarding the hydrolic cycle to convey a spiritual truth, not virga. But, thanks...next time I'll use virga as an illustration of why atheist may lack spiritual germination.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #68 March 28, 2011 QuoteWhen that happens, how will religion deal with it? I don't know and I don't care what they do... I don't have a problem with science as long as it doesn't require faith. My faith does not rely on Scientific observations...haven't you listened to what we've been saying? Does anybody here do anything other than look for reasons to flame the same way yall do with scripture?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #69 March 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhen that happens, how will religion deal with it? I don't know and I don't care what they do... I don't have a problem with science as long as it doesn't require faith. My faith does not rely on Scientific observations...haven't you listened to what we've been saying? Does anybody here do anything other than look for reasons to flame the same way yall do with scripture? I have been reading the thread and do understand your p.o.v.. However, I was not flaming you. I do think my question is reasonable. The church tends to slowly backtrack from evidence against its beliefs. How far can the church back up if and when (I'm betting on when) the origin of our universe is discovered?"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #70 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote ***Does the Bible give us mathematical models to predict the exact position, at a given time, of an object in an elliptical orbit around another body that is itself in an elliptical orbit around yet another body? Of course not...The Bible is big enough without having a bunch of knowledge that is useless for spiritual development. To fit it in maybe it can cut out some of those Old Testament stories which are supposedly worthless anyway, you know - the stuff about stoning homosexuals and such things. You guys vehemently bring this up without ever recognizing the the big picture and it's relation to one of the greatest spiritual truths of the Law vs. Grace found in the Old and New testaments. Yes, we know God is vocal about his standards that we find impossible to live by. It is clear that almost every action we find to be "natural," basically condemns us to death....fine, but that's the Law and we tend to get a lil pissy about it... But there is also Grace and I think a very practical illustration of this is found in the relationship between Joseph and Marry. Joseph could've legally had Marry put to death. He could've legally had that filthy venomous adulteress stoned like a filthy unfaithful whore who dishonored his manhood, but he didn't...why? Because he was a just man and resolved to send her away quietly because he did not want her to be publicly disgraced. I think how people respond to these stoning laws tell more about the condition of their own heart rather than about God or the people to be stoned. If you're willing to kill your fiance because you can, I think it just shows that you're very hateful unforgiving prick who is more concerned with his ego and never loved his woman to begin with, but rather only himself. These verses about the law also tell us alot about ourselves today...some just look at them as reasons not to believe, while others strive to find the lessons of virtue and apply it to spiritual growth and knowledge about God. Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart: Matthew 7:7-8 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #71 March 28, 2011 Quote Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? Speaker's Corner would shut down. "What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #72 March 28, 2011 QuoteYou gave me the crazy face because someone in the bible made an observation that rain fell downward.(which wasn't even my point, thanks) So, what in god's name was your point. We don't seem to have stumbled on one yet... QuoteI simply noted that Newton also made an obvious observation. One applied it to religion, the other science... Which goes straight back to the point that your claim that the bible contains any prescient information later found to be true by science is complete bullshit.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #73 March 28, 2011 QuoteWhich goes straight back to the point that your claim that the bible contains any prescient information later found to be true by science is complete bullshit. The verse I gave is consistent with hydrology. Maybe that info was readily availble when it was written around the time of Babylon. At least the professor was able to provide some insight. Do you have anything substantial to offer other than to just keep calling me a bullshit artist? btw, are you saying that people can't make scientifically accurate observations nor write about the physical world before it's sceintifically proven to your standards?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #74 March 28, 2011 Quotebtw, are you saying that people can't make scientifically accurate observations nor write about the physical world before it's sceintifically proven to your standards? I think what he's saying is the bible would have a lot more credibility if it's creation myth matched up a bit more closely with what we know to be true. The mythology in genesis is just that and nothing more. It's not even close to how the universe started and life began on the planet. Not in any way, shape or form. That there was light and dark which were days and all the grasses and plants existed BEFORE the sun and the moon were placed in the sky on the fourth day. How the F was that supposed to work?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #75 March 28, 2011 Quote Quote Since science is blind to what it can't measure, When they can't measure it, they make it up with names, mythology, if you like. Dark Matter Dark Energy Infinity Zero Length of their penis Quote ...those who claim to be "scientists" should refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about.... Since when did lack of knowledge ever cause anyone to suspend commentary? Dark matter and dark energy can be measured indirectly. That is, we can deduce the amount by measuring their effects. Infinity can be measured. Not all infinities are the same. Zero can also be measured indirectly.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
