"Leading Atheist Publishes Secular Bible" - WTF?!

[RonD1120 62]

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I'll bet you and your cohorts don't find much value in art or poetry either.

I cannot speak for others, but I love art and poetry. When working in other cities, I always made time to visit the art museums. The Smithsonian in D.C. is my favorite and the art museum in Chicago second. The Museum of Natural History in NYC is another amazing place. You should see my Edward S. Curtis Lithos "The North American Indian" Folio One Southwest Images. They are awesome. I guess those Indians went to hell, seeing that they were not good old Imaginary Friend fearing Christians. (My mother's side of the family is Cherokee. Did all of my ancestors go to Hell also?) By the way, how do you explain those dinosaur bones they have on display? They are much older than your Book of Contradiction claims the planet to be. No back peddling needed. Simple answers will do just fine.

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Did you ever have a vicarious experience?

I believe, even animals feel the pain or pleasure of another, to some degree, through observation.

If you can experience fantasy pain/pleasure through various art forms, what stops you from experiencing spiritual guidance? Both require understanding of the unseen.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[freethefly 6]

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If you can experience fantasy pain/pleasure through various art forms, what stops you from experiencing spiritual guidance? Both require understanding of the unseen.

Feeling what another may feel is empathy. Believing in a god is not.
Now, answer the questions in my last post.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[RonD1120 62]

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If you can experience fantasy pain/pleasure through various art forms, what stops you from experiencing spiritual guidance? Both require understanding of the unseen.

Feeling what another may feel is empathy. Believing in a god is not.
Now, answer the questions in my last post.

You missed the point. I was not speaking of empathy but rather spiritual guidance.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[freethefly 6]

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If you can experience fantasy pain/pleasure through various art forms, what stops you from experiencing spiritual guidance? Both require understanding of the unseen.

Feeling what another may feel is empathy. Believing in a god is not.
Now, answer the questions in my last post.

You missed the point. I was not speaking of empathy but rather spiritual guidance.

I do not believe in a god, therefore "spiritual guidance appears to be irrational to me.

Would you find it irrational if I said that I had faith that Odin existed even though there is absolutely no proof?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[RonD1120 62]

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I do not believe in a god, therefore "spiritual guidance appears to be irrational to me.

Would you find it irrational if I said that I had faith that Odin existed even though there is absolutely no proof?

When your relatives on your mother's side of the family discussed such matters, how did you respond to them?

How did you experience the spiritual art of the Southwest Indians?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jaybird18c 24]

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So now we're back to the very convenient dodge that the Bible/God are fine and true, but the Church is the abomination. Yet when the literal translation is bonkers, you go back to wanting open interpretations. For most Christians, those interpretations come from their church - the Pope for the Catholics, and whatever for the other sects.

The Bible is to be "interpreted" literally. It contains "literaly" lots of different types of literary forms (e.g. historical accounts, poetry, metaphors, hyperbole, prayers, parables, etc.) You'd just better know "literally" what it is saying, how it was said, who said it, who were they speaking to, where they came from, what was their culture like at the time, what was their language, what audience was it intended for, what principle (if any) can be derived from it, can/should that principal be applied to us today (it may not be intended to). It’s not what you want the passage to say. It’s what the author intended for it to say.

I believe it might have been Leonard Ravenhill who said this but I'm not sure: "You wouldn't want a carpenter to show up at your house and just start smashing around with his tools without some kind of indication that he knew why he was there and what his plan and purpose was. Yet in the realm of theology, there are people crashing and smashing around with all kinds of tools with no obvious indication of what in the world they’re endeavoring to do."

Added: With regard to your "bonkers" comment, I understand. This is the real problem.

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

In 2 Kings 5, there is a story of Naaman (captain of the army of the king of Aram). He had leprosy. He was told to go to see a servant of Elisha. When he showed up, the servant told Naaman to get off his horse, go down to the river, dip himself in the river seven times, and he would be cured. Sounds foolish, doesn’t it? It did to him also and he refused. His pride was too great. He began to ride away but his servants convinced him to go back. He did what the servant instructed him to do and he was healed.

The point being, until you get off your high horse (humble yourself before your God), you are too “self-righteous.” You will never be open to what the scripture is telling you without supernatural intervention whereby your very nature is changed.

[jaybird18c 24]

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ould you find it irrational if I said that I had faith that Odin existed even though there is absolutely no proof?

I'm agnostic when it comes to Odin.

[jakee 1,489]

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If you can experience fantasy pain/pleasure through various art forms, what stops you from experiencing spiritual guidance? Both require understanding of the unseen.

SO we've established that spiritual guidance is a fantasy. Good. Well done.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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In 2 Kings 5, there is a story of Naaman (captain of the army of the king of Aram). He had leprosy. He was told to go to see a servant of Elisha. When he showed up, the servant told Naaman to get off his horse, go down to the river, dip himself in the river seven times, and he would be cured. Sounds foolish, doesn’t it? It did to him also and he refused. His pride was too great. He began to ride away but his servants convinced him to go back. He did what the servant instructed him to do and he was healed.

The point being, until you get off your high horse (humble yourself before your God), you are too “self-righteous.” You will never be open to what the scripture is telling you without supernatural intervention whereby your very nature is changed.

Yeah, but again, it's not exactly a surprise that the bible is going to try and convince you of it's own reliability. Problem is that anyone can just make up a story to illustrate that the bonkers advice they're peddling is going to work. I could tell you that the last person who gave me $100 married a supermodel a month later. Does that actually mean that it would be a good idea for you to give me money?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

Everything, absolutely everything that exists in the mind is fantasy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'll bet you and your cohorts don't find much value in art or poetry either. Did you ever have a vicarious experience?

I've never been driven by art to kill someone else, either.

[RonD1120 62]

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I've never been driven by art to kill someone else, either.

How does art drive or inspire you?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jaybird18c 24]

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Yeah, but again, it's not exactly a surprise that the bible is going to try and convince you of it's own reliability. Problem is that anyone can just make up a story to illustrate that the bonkers advice they're peddling is going to work. I could tell you that the last person who gave me $100 married a supermodel a month later. Does that actually mean that it would be a good idea for you to give me money?

You do realize that most of those guys died horribly rather than deny what they had seen and experienced? Now, Muslims fly into buildings for what they deeply believe but that is different. It would be very difficult indeed to find someone willing to suffer and die the kind of deaths the Apostles did for what they knew to be false (just to further another false religion). Also kind of a different scenario than the one you mentioned.

[maadmax 0]

. They are awesome. I guess those Indians went to hell, seeing that they were not good old Imaginary Friend fearing Christians. (My mother's side of the family is Cherokee. Did all of my ancestors go to Hell also?) By the way, how do you explain those dinosaur bones they have on display? They are much older than your Book of Contradiction claims the planet to be. No back peddling needed. Simple answers will do just fine.

[kelpdiver 2]

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God is fair and just and will judge each person on the merits of what opportunities they were given.

that's not what the other guys have been telling us here.

[jaybird18c 24]

Mind the gap.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/mind-the-gap

[jaybird18c 24]

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God is fair and just and will judge each person on the merits of what opportunities they were given.

that's not what the other guys have been telling us here.

"Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds." Romans 2:4-5

[maadmax 0]

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Mind the gap.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/mind-the-gap

I respect your faith, but I respectfully disagree. These issues are a distraction from the real message the Bible is offering. Salvation to a lost world.

[jaybird18c 24]

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Mind the gap.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/mind-the-gap

I respect your faith, but I respectfully disagree. These issues are a distraction from the real message the Bible is offering. Salvation to a lost world.

I agree that we can agree to disagree on this but it does undermine the doctrine of salvation which begins in Genesis. You can choose not to believe what it says, but it is clear. A Gap theory or any other is just an attempt to compromise and harmonize what is told with modern evolutionary ideas.

[jakee 1,489]

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Yeah, but again, it's not exactly a surprise that the bible is going to try and convince you of it's own reliability. Problem is that anyone can just make up a story to illustrate that the bonkers advice they're peddling is going to work. I could tell you that the last person who gave me $100 married a supermodel a month later. Does that actually mean that it would be a good idea for you to give me money?

You do realize that most of those guys died horribly rather than deny what they had seen and experienced? Now, Muslims fly into buildings for what they deeply believe but that is different. It would be very difficult indeed to find someone willing to suffer and die the kind of deaths the Apostles did for what they knew to be false (just to further another false religion). Also kind of a different scenario than the one you mentioned.

First of all you do realise, with all of your scriptural know how, that you quoted the old testament, right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the apostles witnessed those events.

Secondly, I don't think it is particularly impressive that the apostles were willing to die. It's not unique, or even that special, that a charismatic individual can craft so devoted a group of followers and it absolutely is not evidence enough to convince me that miracles are the more likely option.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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Mind the gap.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/mind-the-gap

I respect your faith, but I respectfully disagree. These issues are a distraction from the real message the Bible is offering. Salvation to a lost world.

I agree that we can agree to disagree on this but it does undermine the doctrine of salvation which begins in Genesis. You can choose not to believe what it says, but it is clear. A Gap theory or any other is just an attempt to compromise and harmonize what is told with modern evolutionary ideas.

Yet again I point out the disconnect between your earlier trumpeting of exegesis and your stance on this issue, which is something along the lines of "It needs to be true so fuck what the evidence says."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

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God is fair and just and will judge each person on the merits of what opportunities they were given.

that's not what the other guys have been telling us here.

"Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds." Romans 2:4-5

We have a saying in substance recovery, "God is not fair and life is not fair, be grateful."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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I agree that we can agree to disagree on this but it does undermine the doctrine of salvation which begins in Genesis. You can choose not to believe what it says, but it is clear. A Gap theory or any other is just an attempt to compromise and harmonize what is told with modern evolutionary ideas.

Yet again I point out the disconnect between your earlier trumpeting of exegesis and your stance on this issue, which is something along the lines of "It needs to be true so fuck what the evidence says."

[winsor 236]

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Mind the gap.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n1/mind-the-gap

I respect your faith, but I respectfully disagree. These issues are a distraction from the real message the Bible is offering. Salvation to a lost world.

I agree that we can agree to disagree on this but it does undermine the doctrine of salvation which begins in Genesis. You can choose not to believe what it says, but it is clear. A Gap theory or any other is just an attempt to compromise and harmonize what is told with modern evolutionary ideas.

Given that this thread is conclusive evidence that religious conviction is but a socially acceptable form of psychosis, the clear demonstration that its underlying principles are unadulterated nonsense is pointless.

If someone is going to devote their life to Baal or Gichimanitou or Bacchus or whatever, the fact that these are all mythical constructs is moot. The myriad gods out there are equally real and have identical claims to legitimacy (depending on who you ask).

When believers presume to make their case by "logic," it has a similar quality to a little kid who is trying to prove that there are monsters in his closet - in a much more pathetic manner. The garbled accounts found in the popular religious texts are no more convincing than if belivers were to cite the phone book for support of their position.

If I am working in a high-risk environment, knowing that the person upon whom I must rely is an adherent of a delusional phobosophy is frighteneing. I question the mental competence of someone who really believes in leprechauns and so forth, and thinks that failing to properly follow critical safety procedures will simply give them hot and cold running virgins or harp music ad nauseum or whatever. I'll take a cynic any day.

Faith is okay, in that I have faith that I can make the best of what comes along if I so choose. Belief in things that are patently, demonstrably false is not so good. I contend that the only limitless resource at our disposal is stupidity, and religion is proof positive of that principle. One whose work is appreciated most by those in the upper echelons of Mensa is likely to remain obscure, but one who can tap into that atavistic facet of the human condition represented by religion is set for life.

Getting back to the basis of the thread, it was simply the work of someone who assembled a period chrestomathy that did not not rely on superstition. It was an exercise of duplicating the work of those who prepared the popular religious compendia with an eye toward knowledge, rather than ignorance.

Unfortunately, as the advertising rule of thumb goes, once you reach an 8th grade level, you have lost half your audience. Or, as Taylor Caldwell put it, "5% of the population think, 5% think they think, and 90% would rather die than think," and religion is ample proof that she was spot on.


BSBD,

Winsor

[jakee 1,489]

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I agree that we can agree to disagree on this but it does undermine the doctrine of salvation which begins in Genesis. You can choose not to believe what it says, but it is clear. A Gap theory or any other is just an attempt to compromise and harmonize what is told with modern evolutionary ideas.

Yet again I point out the disconnect between your earlier trumpeting of exegesis and your stance on this issue, which is something along the lines of "It needs to be true so fuck what the evidence says."

I heard an interesting point made on History yesterday. That is, the Bible is not a book of science so don't try to make it as such. However, religion and science do overlap. They overlap in the soul of the person who has science and who has religion.