"Leading Atheist Publishes Secular Bible" - WTF?!

[freethefly 6]

I like Atheist Jesus

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Atheist_Jesus

Luke 4:32pm
And the second Jesus twas walking in clothes untouched by powder in a many years. His hand clenched forth beer, and he slurpeth it's contents with Scottish-like glee. He talked unto a whore with words ungodly. She was up-for-it and they took refuge in abominable acts on a parketh bencheth. The Lord did say, 'At least he's not one of THEM!'

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jaybird18c 24]

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It is possible (unlikely, but possible) that people other than yourself understand Biblical issues, but disagree with your reasoning.

I agree.

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Until it changes again - at which point you become right?

That's the problem. "What it's always been understood to be" changes. And again, that's not a bad thing; heck, it keeps theologians around the world employed.

I go back to a passage like John 14:6, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." (an essential doctrine of the faith). The Apostles and earliest of Church Fathers all understood the exclusivity of that statment. It has obviously not been lost in English or any other translation. I agree, some passages have been left in obscurity and there are differences of opinion as to their exact translation and meaning from the original languages, however, those aren't anywhere near the majority and the overall theme of the bible (God's unfolding plan of salvation for His people) is clear. In that way, one of the characteristics of scripture is its perspecuity.

[Heatmiser 0]

The problem with applying an ancient Jewish view to interpretations of the bible is that we LIVE in the 21ST century. If we cannot apply 21st century understanding to the bible, then we must pick and choose what fits our understanding, and discard the rest. That makes US the authority, and the bible irrelevant.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Heatmiser 0]

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It is possible (unlikely, but possible) that people other than yourself understand Biblical issues, but disagree with your reasoning.

I agree.

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Until it changes again - at which point you become right?

That's the problem. "What it's always been understood to be" changes. And again, that's not a bad thing; heck, it keeps theologians around the world employed.

I go back to a passage like John 14:6, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." (an essential doctrine of the faith). The Apostles and earliest of Church Fathers all understood the exclusivity of that statment. It has obviously not been lost in English or any other translation. I agree, some passages have been left in obscurity and there are differences of opinion as to their exact translation and meaning from the original languages, however, those aren't anywhere near the majority and the overall theme of the bible (God's unfolding plan of salvation for His people) is clear. In that way, one of the characteristics of scripture is its perspecuity.

To you, John 14:6 is and essential doctrine, while stoning an adulteress is not. That is picking and choosing.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[freethefly 6]

God commanded that people kill their own family, so that he can bestow upon them a great blessing!
WOW, God is a fuck nut lunatic. Compared to God, Charlie Manson is completely sane.

If there really is a God, why would he be such an egotistical, blood thirsty hate monger?

Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,991]

>God commanded that people kill their own family, so that he can bestow upon them a great blessing!

Well, that or the story got altered a bit after a few thousand retellings.

[jaybird18c 24]

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I agree 100%. Taking the Bible literally, and claiming that its interpretation does not change, is a mistake - society changes, and our understanding of the Bible changes as a result.

Paul was a tentmaker by trade. He understood that you need to make straight cuts in order to do what he did. A cut may start out straight but, unless you're careful, it can get "way out there" the further along you get. I'm sure that's what he had in mind with 2 Tim 2:15 when he said "Study (be dilligent) to show yourself approved of God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." With interpretation, we should use the inductive method of exegesis (examining data to make a conclusion and then an application). We should not use the deductive method of eisegesis (making a conclusion and then finding evidence to support that conclusion or belief). With exegesis, one is attempting to find out "literally" what the person intended to convey in his message (authorial intent). Gotta know the grammar and historical setting before you can interpret and apply (if we can...because the text may not have been written for us and maybe it was only intended for them at that time).

For example: Leviticus 19:27 "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

Literally, what did that mean? Does it mean we shouldn't get haircuts? No. You've got to determine the original intent. Back then, there were pagan practices amongst the people. Cutting the beard was considered a pagan ceremony. You wouldn't know that unless you understood the culture at the time. God was instructing to leave those pagan practices behind. Is it a pagan practice in our culture to shave your beard today? Of course not. So, does that principal derived from scripture apply to us today? No. It doesn't mean the same thing. Now, in the Jewish culture, it still does. That's why the orthodox Jews still have their hair long on the sides and beards.

[jaybird18c 24]

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God commanded that people kill their own family, so that he can bestow upon them a great blessing!
WOW, God is a fuck nut lunatic. Compared to God, Charlie Manson is completely sane.

If there really is a God, why would he be such an egotistical, blood thirsty hate monger?

Kill Your Neighbors

Wow! And THAT is a great example of making a conclusion without any understanding of the historical or theological context of a passage. And from a source called "evil bible." THAT is awesome!

[freethefly 6]

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God was instructing to leave those pagan practices behind.

Many of the Christian celebrations are taken from Pagan rituals. Have a happy Ishtar day! (Easter was named after the pagan goddess Ishtar)

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Is it a pagan practice in our culture to shave your beard today? Of course not. So, does that principal derived from scripture apply to us today? No.

How convenient that you Christians can just willy-nilly change the meaning of what your imaginary friend demands. Oh well, since he is imaginary...

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

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historical

Quite a stretch saying that anything in the bible is "historical."

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And from a source called "evil bible." THAT is awesome

The truth is awesome, is it not! Hallelujah! Praise be! Glad you agree. Finally, we're getting somewhere. There is hope for you, yet!

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jaybird18c 24]

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The truth is awesome, is it not! Hallelujah! Praise be! Glad you agree. Finally, we're getting somewhere. There is hope for you, yet!

Why do you seem so angry?

[freethefly 6]

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The truth is awesome, is it not! Hallelujah! Praise be! Glad you agree. Finally, we're getting somewhere. There is hope for you, yet!

Why do you seem so angry?

I'm not angry.
Why do you ignore the fact that the bible is nothing more than fables?
Why do you ignore the fact that Christianity has borrowed from books written before the bible? The message from the sermon on the mound can be found in the Tao.
Why do Christians always use the comeback " The bible is not to be taken literally. You have to interpret it to find the true meaning." What????? If the bible says to kill people who work on the sabbath, then that is exactly what it means. Your god is instructing people to commit murder. Plain and simple. His command to kill the innocent goes directly against one of his commandments, which says not to kill. Seems that god fella is a major flip-flopper.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[jaybird18c 24]

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Why do you ignore the fact that the bible is nothing more than fables?
Why do you ignore the fact that Christianity has borrowed from books written before the bible?

Even the Smithsonian Institute regards the Bible as historically accurate. Of course, they deny a global flood and discredit the earlier chapters in Genesis which don't fit into their presuppositions. But everything else...right on. I think that's inconsistent, but...at least they (and not you) agree that it is probably the most reliable work in antiquity.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/us/newsletters/0403lead.asp

Added: " … On the other hand, much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories. "These Biblical records can be and are used as are other ancient documents in archeological work. For the most part, historical events described took place and the peoples cited really existed. This is not to say … that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated." - Smithsonian Institute

[jakee 1,489]

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But everything else...right on.

"This is not to say … that every event as reported in the historical books happened exactly as stated"

Oh yeah, we should really be taking your word on how to interpret ancient literature - you can't even interpret a simple paragraph "As accurate as any that we have" does not mean accurate.

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Of course, they deny a global flood and discredit the earlier chapters in Genesis which don't fit into their presuppositions.

No, the global flood and Genesis creation accounts don't fit any single shred of physical evidence ever found. The only presupposition involved is that we can learn about the world around us by looking at the world around us, instead of in a very old book written by people who knew as much of geology as my pet dog.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jaybird18c 24]

Well then. Guess we're all just crazier than your pet dog. No convincing you then.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Thirdly, the Bible is not a science book. That was never its design or purpose. However, wheverever statments are made in it that touch on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate. Now, with regard to your question, we have to determine whether the bible even hints at the idea of heliocentricity. The answer is no. The Church (of which the Roman Catholic Church is a major culprit) throughout history has misused, distorted, and undermined the authority of scripture. Taken from it ideas which are not there and applied them to its purposes. Long story short, the Bible is neither geocentric or heliocentric regardless of what the Roman Catholic tradition has done with it.

So now we're back to the very convenient dodge that the Bible/God are fine and true, but the Church is the abomination. Yet when the literal translation is bonkers, you go back to wanting open interpretations. For most Christians, those interpretations come from their church - the Pope for the Catholics, and whatever for the other sects.

I doubt that Galileo cared about the distinction when he had to recant the truth in order to save his neck.

[kallend 2,027]

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(How many during the Inquisition? So kind of your loving god to invent those exquisite tortures)

God invented the Inquisition? Really? Are you serious? Is that really what you're thinking? I don't even know how to respond to something like that.

You could start by being ethical and not selectively snipping to eliminate the context.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,489]

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Well then. Guess we're all just crazier than your pet dog. No convincing you then.

No, as knowledgeble as.

Don't you find it interesting that while on the one hand you extoll the virtues of exegesis (which you describe as looking at the evidence and then coming to a conclusion), on the other you quote an article by Ken Ham that admits that he thinks that the literal biblical creation story is vital for the survival of christianity in society? Does it maybe cross your mind that with such a powerful ulterior motive for showing the creation story to be true, the arguments and 'evidence' he presents in favour of it could be a little less than reliable?

No, probably not - you guys have always been the masters of doublethink.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

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But enough of this, we should catch up on other things: how's your imaginary wife?

Americans fantasize about girlfriends when they masturbate. Only a Brit would fantasize a wife. So bloody practical, eh ol' chap.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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Paul was a tentmaker by trade. He understood that you need to make straight cuts in order to do what he did. A cut may start out straight but, unless you're careful, it can get "way out there" the further along you get. I'm sure that's what he had in mind with 2 Tim 2:15 when he said "Study (be dilligent) to show yourself approved of God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." With interpretation, we should use the inductive method of exegesis (examining data to make a conclusion and then an application). We should not use the deductive method of eisegesis (making a conclusion and then finding evidence to support that conclusion or belief). With exegesis, one is attempting to find out "literally" what the person intended to convey in his message (authorial intent). Gotta know the grammar and historical setting before you can interpret and apply (if we can...because the text may not have been written for us and maybe it was only intended for them at that time).

I never heard that verse explained that way before, excellent.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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Why do you seem so angry?

I'm not angry.
Why do you ignore the fact that the bible is nothing more than fables?
Why do you ignore the fact that Christianity has borrowed from books written before the bible? The message from the sermon on the mound can be found in the Tao.
Why do Christians always use the comeback " The bible is not to be taken literally. You have to interpret it to find the true meaning." What????? If the bible says to kill people who work on the sabbath, then that is exactly what it means. Your god is instructing people to commit murder. Plain and simple. His command to kill the innocent goes directly against one of his commandments, which says not to kill. Seems that god fella is a major flip-flopper.

I'll bet you and your cohorts don't find much value in art or poetry either. Did you ever have a vicarious experience?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,489]

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But enough of this, we should catch up on other things: how's your imaginary wife?

Americans fantasize about girlfriends when they masturbate. Only a Brit would fantasize a wife. So bloody practical, eh ol' chap.

As usual, you're 100% backwards, it's the American I was talking to that had the fantasy. In a wonderful exhibition of 'lying for Jesus' Coreece tried to convince me that there must have been a divine hand involved in the string of coincidences that led him to meet his wife in hospital, only to later admit that the entire story was fictional.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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Why do you seem so angry?

I'm not angry.
Why do you ignore the fact that the bible is nothing more than fables?
Why do you ignore the fact that Christianity has borrowed from books written before the bible? The message from the sermon on the mound can be found in the Tao.
Why do Christians always use the comeback " The bible is not to be taken literally. You have to interpret it to find the true meaning." What????? If the bible says to kill people who work on the sabbath, then that is exactly what it means. Your god is instructing people to commit murder. Plain and simple. His command to kill the innocent goes directly against one of his commandments, which says not to kill. Seems that god fella is a major flip-flopper.

I'll bet you and your cohorts don't find much value in art or poetry either.

You lose. Care to go double or quits?

(You know you really need to drop this black and white view you have of the 'scientific' types, all cold, mechanical and distant, and the 'caring' types, the religious, the artists, those able to connect with people in need. Ironically, in labeling people like this, you're actually demonstrating your own lack of ability to empathise or understand anyone with an opposing opinion to your own.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

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(You know you really need to drop this black and white view you have of the 'scientific' types, all cold, mechanical and distant, and the 'caring' types, the religious, the artists, those able to connect with people in need. Ironically, in labeling people like this, you're actually demonstrating your own lack of ability to empathise or understand anyone with an opposing opinion to your own.)

You know you are right. It is just the way you come across in your posts. I am very empathic 1:1. Empathy is a requirement in my profession.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[freethefly 6]

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I'll bet you and your cohorts don't find much value in art or poetry either.

I cannot speak for others, but I love art and poetry. When working in other cities, I always made time to visit the art museums. The Smithsonian in D.C. is my favorite and the art museum in Chicago second. The Museum of Natural History in NYC is another amazing place. You should see my Edward S. Curtis Lithos "The North American Indian" Folio One Southwest Images. They are awesome. I guess those Indians went to hell, seeing that they were not good old Imaginary Friend fearing Christians. (My mother's side of the family is Cherokee. Did all of my ancestors go to Hell also?) By the way, how do you explain those dinosaur bones they have on display? They are much older than your Book of Contradiction claims the planet to be. No back peddling needed. Simple answers will do just fine.

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Did you ever have a vicarious experience?

I believe, even animals feel the pain or pleasure of another, to some degree, through observation.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young