wmw999 2,439
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Andy9o8 2
QuoteWhat to do about irresponsible people?
Take away their parachutes.
DaVinci 0
QuoteThe thing is to determine what consequences we're willing to suffer in order to make sure that irresponsible people suffer theirs.
Lazy people should be hungry.
People who are unable to work should be taken care of.
There should be more focus on the cases to decide where that line is.
Right now we have programs that are abused by the lazy and impossible for the needy to get. That is just wrong.
The solution is NOT to enlarge the programs without removing the lazy.
rushmc 23
QuoteIf people die and are left on the streets, I believe we would all suffer those consequences.
If people are starving, then the US as a country would suffer PR consequences.
If there are tent cities in our towns, then whoever is in the towns suffer the consequences.
We can't isolate consequences to the irresponsible. The thing is to determine what consequences we're willing to suffer in order to make sure that irresponsible people suffer theirs.
Of course, not every poor person is irresponsible. Some are unlucky in birth or circumstances. And the more we make damn good and sure that irresponsible people suffer, the larger that number of people who are born into difficult-to-escape irresponsible families.
Wendy P.
It is a doubled edged sword Wendy
Providing the programs you support creates more irresponsible people too
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
wmw999 2,439
I agree. I've gone on the record before as saying that welfare recipients, by and large, should be required to work in public jobs, with childcare for the workers being one of the public jobs. Things like painting the halls in tenements, public area maintenance, other low-skill jobs that we currently pay people to do.QuoteProviding the programs you support creates more irresponsible people too
If you're on welfare, you can't afford day care; it has to be provided (or it only applies to mothers of school-age children, but I really don't want a lot of incentives to keep having children so there's always one under 5).
But the day care providers are also welfare recipients, as are the other recipients who are doing other things. Yeah, it'll be a pain in the ass in the beginning, because many come from families with no history of work, and they have no idea of how to do it (i.e. showing up consistently, dressing appropriately, etc).
Not everyone CAN work. If you or your child is disabled enough, it's not reasonable; that has to be evaluated.
The value for service rendered is not huge. But the fact that it's something you have to work for might make it less attractive in the future.
I don't think too many people want to do away entirely with welfare; there really are people who can't work. But the bar needs to be raised.
I'm also in favor of a mandatory year of service for kids as they turn 18 or exit high school, before they go to college (if college is in their future). With virtually no exceptions -- disbled kids who can contribute should be able to participate. Ones who are destructively violent, or who are unable to contribute, obviously no. Again, for some kids the cost exceeds the benefit. But not all, and we get a lot of work out of energetic young people.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
rushmc 23
QuoteI agree. I've gone on the record before as saying that welfare recipients, by and large, should be required to work in public jobs, with childcare for the workers being one of the public jobs. Things like painting the halls in tenements, public area maintenance, other low-skill jobs that we currently pay people to do.QuoteProviding the programs you support creates more irresponsible people too
If you're on welfare, you can't afford day care; it has to be provided (or it only applies to mothers of school-age children, but I really don't want a lot of incentives to keep having children so there's always one under 5).
But the day care providers are also welfare recipients, as are the other recipients who are doing other things. Yeah, it'll be a pain in the ass in the beginning, because many come from families with no history of work, and they have no idea of how to do it (i.e. showing up consistently, dressing appropriately, etc).
Not everyone CAN work. If you or your child is disabled enough, it's not reasonable; that has to be evaluated.
The value for service rendered is not huge. But the fact that it's something you have to work for might make it less attractive in the future.
I don't think too many people want to do away entirely with welfare; there really are people who can't work. But the bar needs to be raised.
I'm also in favor of a mandatory year of service for kids as they turn 18 or exit high school, before they go to college (if college is in their future). With virtually no exceptions -- disbled kids who can contribute should be able to participate. Ones who are destructively violent, or who are unable to contribute, obviously no. Again, for some kids the cost exceeds the benefit. But not all, and we get a lot of work out of energetic young people.
Wendy P.
Wendy
You will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
Safey net?
Fine
But votes are being purchased through todays programs structures
The report just came out in the news today
50% of household pay no income tax
I know there are varing reasons but this is crazy
And kallend wants to pay for more and bigger gov by taking more from those who are productive and give it way to many who are bums
Cause it makes him feel good
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
pirana 0
QuoteYou will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
Heartily agree. If the abuse were to end, our situation would probably be very different. The looseness of our welfare system did little damage when we were, as a whole, living high on the hog. Like most individuals, groups tend to live into their income. Then when things get tight - the adjustments are painful.
Now that we have tougher competition on all fronts, our extravagant (unbridled or out-of-control might be better words) programs are a considerable source of economic pain.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
DaVinci 0
QuoteI've gone on the record before as saying that welfare recipients, by and large, should be required to work in public jobs, with childcare for the workers being one of the public jobs.
Agree
QuoteNot everyone CAN work. If you or your child is disabled enough, it's not reasonable; that has to be evaluated.
Agree
QuoteBut the fact that it's something you have to work for might make it less attractive in the future.
YES. The guy from SC (?) that mentioned if you feed feral cats they multiply and lose the ability to care for themselves is correct even though he was vilified in the press.
People will do nothing if you let them. Some will live like crap, just so they do not have to do anything. These people should not just be given things.
QuoteI'm also in favor of a mandatory year of service for kids as they turn 18
I'm not in favor of this. This is socialistic in nature. A person should be free to pick their own path.... But that path cannot be violent or as a leach.
funjumper101 15
Quote
Wendy
You will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
Safey net?
Fine
But votes are being purchased through todays programs structures
The report just came out in the news today
50% of household pay no income tax
I know there are varing reasons but this is crazy
And kallend wants to pay for more and bigger gov by taking more from those who are productive and give it way to many who are bums
Cause it makes him feel good
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
What a load of crap. No shock there, when your "information" sources are Faux news, Newmax, Breitbart, et al.
It seems that the terrible economy and the ever downward spiral of wages and benefits has never pentrated the conciousness of some RWCs. Did it ever occur to you that the average wage, in real dollars, has been going DOWN, really fast, when measured in inflation adjusted terms? Increased deductions and decreased wages = less or no taxes paid.
You must be really bummed out that there are less and less people who can cover the excessive tax cuts granted to the extremely wealthy, thus causing the "budget crisis" the Rescums are all worked up about. How come you useless RWCs don't take into account that ShrubCo fooled you all by keeping the Iraq invasion and occupation, and the Afghanistan war OFF THE BOOKS for budgeting purposes. Obama did the FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE thing by putting them BACK ON BUDGET.
Taxes need to be RAISED on the same folks that got huge TEMPORARY tax breaks during a time of war, and thus helped ruin the economy. Economics 101, to anyone with even a glimmering of understanding of fiscal policy.
You assholes talk about love of country and fiscal responsibility, but you have zero clue as to what that really means. When it actually starts to happen, you can't recognize it.
The Shrub tax cuts WERE NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Iraq Invasion/occupation WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Afghanistan war WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
Are you all really idiots, or does it just seem that way? If you start choose to go to war, it has to be paid for. Fooling nitwits by keeping the true costs hidden, while DECREASING revenue, has put us where we are today. It isn't Obama's fault the budget is FUCKED!! It is the fault of the politicians who made it happen, and the RWCs that support them, no matter how bad their policies are for the country.
It is time to suck it up and start supporting the end of the ShrubCo tax cuts. It is time to start taxing corporations fairly and equitably. No more giveaways to the Oil companies and the factory farms. Revenue MUST go up, as well as major cuts in DEFENSE Spending. That is the right way to go. Not slashing large slices from a very tiny part of the pie, therby punishing the elderly and the poor, to the benfit of the wealthy.
The money is there. The Rescums and the Dems are owned, lock stock and barrel, by the folks with the money. And they are fucking us over completely, aided and abetted by the dumb ass, easily led RWCs. The real patriots in the USA need to rise up and take this country back, for real. We need to get the Fairness doctrine back in place to even out the playing field. Ownership of media outlets must be spread out among many companies, not concentrated in the hands of a few.
Go read the book "Amusing ourselves TO DEATH" by Neil Postman. Called the future perfectly.
Then move on to "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnston. A cogent explanation of the tax code.
Challenging reading for RWCs. The concepts aren't complicated. Your beliefs WILL be challenged.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
Wendy
You will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
Safey net?
Fine
But votes are being purchased through todays programs structures
The report just came out in the news today
50% of household pay no income tax
I know there are varing reasons but this is crazy
And kallend wants to pay for more and bigger gov by taking more from those who are productive and give it way to many who are bums
Cause it makes him feel good
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
What a load of crap. No shock there, when your "information" sources are Faux news, Newmax, Breitbart, et al.
It seems that the terrible economy and the ever downward spiral of wages and benefits has never pentrated the conciousness of some RWCs. Did it ever occur to you that the average wage, in real dollars, has been going DOWN, really fast, when measured in inflation adjusted terms? Increased deductions and decreased wages = less or no taxes paid.
You must be really bummed out that there are less and less people who can cover the excessive tax cuts granted to the extremely wealthy, thus causing the "budget crisis" the Rescums are all worked up about. How come you useless RWCs don't take into account that ShrubCo fooled you all by keeping the Iraq invasion and occupation, and the Afghanistan war OFF THE BOOKS for budgeting purposes. Obama did the FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE thing by putting them BACK ON BUDGET.
Taxes need to be RAISED on the same folks that got huge TEMPORARY tax breaks during a time of war, and thus helped ruin the economy. Economics 101, to anyone with even a glimmering of understanding of fiscal policy.
You assholes talk about love of country and fiscal responsibility, but you have zero clue as to what that really means. When it actually starts to happen, you can't recognize it.
The Shrub tax cuts WERE NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Iraq Invasion/occupation WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Afghanistan war WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
Are you all really idiots, or does it just seem that way? If you start choose to go to war, it has to be paid for. Fooling nitwits by keeping the true costs hidden, while DECREASING revenue, has put us where we are today. It isn't Obama's fault the budget is FUCKED!! It is the fault of the politicians who made it happen, and the RWCs that support them, no matter how bad their policies are for the country.
It is time to suck it up and start supporting the end of the ShrubCo tax cuts. It is time to start taxing corporations fairly and equitably. No more giveaways to the Oil companies and the factory farms. Revenue MUST go up, as well as major cuts in DEFENSE Spending. That is the right way to go. Not slashing large slices from a very tiny part of the pie, therby punishing the elderly and the poor, to the benfit of the wealthy.
The money is there. The Rescums and the Dems are owned, lock stock and barrel, by the folks with the money. And they are fucking us over completely, aided and abetted by the dumb ass, easily led RWCs. The real patriots in the USA need to rise up and take this country back, for real. We need to get the Fairness doctrine back in place to even out the playing field. Ownership of media outlets must be spread out among many companies, not concentrated in the hands of a few.
Go read the book "Amusing ourselves TO DEATH" by Neil Postman. Called the future perfectly.
Then move on to "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnston. A cogent explanation of the tax code.
Challenging reading for RWCs. The concepts aren't complicated. Your beliefs WILL be challenged.
You are one funny sob
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,026
QuoteQuoteQuote
Wendy
You will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
Safey net?
Fine
But votes are being purchased through todays programs structures
The report just came out in the news today
50% of household pay no income tax
I know there are varing reasons but this is crazy
And kallend wants to pay for more and bigger gov by taking more from those who are productive and give it way to many who are bums
Cause it makes him feel good
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
What a load of crap. No shock there, when your "information" sources are Faux news, Newmax, Breitbart, et al.
It seems that the terrible economy and the ever downward spiral of wages and benefits has never pentrated the conciousness of some RWCs. Did it ever occur to you that the average wage, in real dollars, has been going DOWN, really fast, when measured in inflation adjusted terms? Increased deductions and decreased wages = less or no taxes paid.
You must be really bummed out that there are less and less people who can cover the excessive tax cuts granted to the extremely wealthy, thus causing the "budget crisis" the Rescums are all worked up about. How come you useless RWCs don't take into account that ShrubCo fooled you all by keeping the Iraq invasion and occupation, and the Afghanistan war OFF THE BOOKS for budgeting purposes. Obama did the FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE thing by putting them BACK ON BUDGET.
Taxes need to be RAISED on the same folks that got huge TEMPORARY tax breaks during a time of war, and thus helped ruin the economy. Economics 101, to anyone with even a glimmering of understanding of fiscal policy.
You assholes talk about love of country and fiscal responsibility, but you have zero clue as to what that really means. When it actually starts to happen, you can't recognize it.
The Shrub tax cuts WERE NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Iraq Invasion/occupation WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Afghanistan war WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
Are you all really idiots, or does it just seem that way? If you start choose to go to war, it has to be paid for. Fooling nitwits by keeping the true costs hidden, while DECREASING revenue, has put us where we are today. It isn't Obama's fault the budget is FUCKED!! It is the fault of the politicians who made it happen, and the RWCs that support them, no matter how bad their policies are for the country.
It is time to suck it up and start supporting the end of the ShrubCo tax cuts. It is time to start taxing corporations fairly and equitably. No more giveaways to the Oil companies and the factory farms. Revenue MUST go up, as well as major cuts in DEFENSE Spending. That is the right way to go. Not slashing large slices from a very tiny part of the pie, therby punishing the elderly and the poor, to the benfit of the wealthy.
The money is there. The Rescums and the Dems are owned, lock stock and barrel, by the folks with the money. And they are fucking us over completely, aided and abetted by the dumb ass, easily led RWCs. The real patriots in the USA need to rise up and take this country back, for real. We need to get the Fairness doctrine back in place to even out the playing field. Ownership of media outlets must be spread out among many companies, not concentrated in the hands of a few.
Go read the book "Amusing ourselves TO DEATH" by Neil Postman. Called the future perfectly.
Then move on to "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnston. A cogent explanation of the tax code.
Challenging reading for RWCs. The concepts aren't complicated. Your beliefs WILL be challenged.
You are one funny sob
Yes, he is. However, he's correct, and you're not.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Wendy
You will have to point out someone who wants to get rid (completly) of these types of programs
I do not know of anyone here who would support that
Certinly I do not
But the programs we have today are not what was intended
We have created a class of people who will tell you they are entitled to the tax dollars they get
Safey net?
Fine
But votes are being purchased through todays programs structures
The report just came out in the news today
50% of household pay no income tax
I know there are varing reasons but this is crazy
And kallend wants to pay for more and bigger gov by taking more from those who are productive and give it way to many who are bums
Cause it makes him feel good
And we wonder why we are in the mess we are in
This progressivism is killing this country
What a load of crap. No shock there, when your "information" sources are Faux news, Newmax, Breitbart, et al.
It seems that the terrible economy and the ever downward spiral of wages and benefits has never pentrated the conciousness of some RWCs. Did it ever occur to you that the average wage, in real dollars, has been going DOWN, really fast, when measured in inflation adjusted terms? Increased deductions and decreased wages = less or no taxes paid.
You must be really bummed out that there are less and less people who can cover the excessive tax cuts granted to the extremely wealthy, thus causing the "budget crisis" the Rescums are all worked up about. How come you useless RWCs don't take into account that ShrubCo fooled you all by keeping the Iraq invasion and occupation, and the Afghanistan war OFF THE BOOKS for budgeting purposes. Obama did the FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE thing by putting them BACK ON BUDGET.
Taxes need to be RAISED on the same folks that got huge TEMPORARY tax breaks during a time of war, and thus helped ruin the economy. Economics 101, to anyone with even a glimmering of understanding of fiscal policy.
You assholes talk about love of country and fiscal responsibility, but you have zero clue as to what that really means. When it actually starts to happen, you can't recognize it.
The Shrub tax cuts WERE NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Iraq Invasion/occupation WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
The Afghanistan war WAS NOT PAID FOR!!!
Are you all really idiots, or does it just seem that way? If you start choose to go to war, it has to be paid for. Fooling nitwits by keeping the true costs hidden, while DECREASING revenue, has put us where we are today. It isn't Obama's fault the budget is FUCKED!! It is the fault of the politicians who made it happen, and the RWCs that support them, no matter how bad their policies are for the country.
It is time to suck it up and start supporting the end of the ShrubCo tax cuts. It is time to start taxing corporations fairly and equitably. No more giveaways to the Oil companies and the factory farms. Revenue MUST go up, as well as major cuts in DEFENSE Spending. That is the right way to go. Not slashing large slices from a very tiny part of the pie, therby punishing the elderly and the poor, to the benfit of the wealthy.
The money is there. The Rescums and the Dems are owned, lock stock and barrel, by the folks with the money. And they are fucking us over completely, aided and abetted by the dumb ass, easily led RWCs. The real patriots in the USA need to rise up and take this country back, for real. We need to get the Fairness doctrine back in place to even out the playing field. Ownership of media outlets must be spread out among many companies, not concentrated in the hands of a few.
Go read the book "Amusing ourselves TO DEATH" by Neil Postman. Called the future perfectly.
Then move on to "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnston. A cogent explanation of the tax code.
Challenging reading for RWCs. The concepts aren't complicated. Your beliefs WILL be challenged.
You are one funny sob
Yes, he is. However, he's correct, and you're not.
Not surprised you would post this as you and Obama avoid all the taxes you can by taking all available deductions
Hypocrisy in action
Funny though
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
If people are starving, then the US as a country would suffer PR consequences.
If there are tent cities in our towns, then whoever is in the towns suffer the consequences.
We can't isolate consequences to the irresponsible. The thing is to determine what consequences we're willing to suffer in order to make sure that irresponsible people suffer theirs.
Of course, not every poor person is irresponsible. Some are unlucky in birth or circumstances. And the more we make damn good and sure that irresponsible people suffer, the larger that number of people who are born into difficult-to-escape irresponsible families.
Wendy P.
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