Gasland........

[JerseyShawn 0]

I saw this documentary a while ago. Today I heard it being talked about on talk radio, it seems they just heard of it. Im surprised more people havent seen it.

Its about Americas natural gas resources and the companies that victimize our citizens and pollute the lands.

http://blip.tv/file/4932995

Theres a part two on the right.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I invested over 90 minutes and watched both segments. That's really shocking. It makes one want to re-think the use of natural gas as an alternative to oil. The question remains, what's the next best choice.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Natural Gas should NOT be thought of as an alternative fuel to power our cars and trucks. But it appears that some politicians did think this way. Natural Gas is however one of the better fuels people who live in northern climates need to heat their homes. It is easy for someone living in a southern climate to sluff off Natural Gas as a heating fuel, but that is because they do not realize what it is like to live in an environment where cold temperatures (sometimes as cold as -30) is a daily occurrence for 4 to 6 months of the year.

Obviously there is a problem here and I don't have an easy answer other than to say Natural Gas should NOT be thought of as an alternate way to power our cars and our trucks. But it is needed to heat our homes.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 2,991]

>Natural Gas should NOT be thought of as an alternative fuel to power our cars and trucks.

?? Why? It's an excellent motor fuel that has been used for decades by cars, trucks, buses and seagoing ships.

>Natural Gas is however one of the better fuels people who live in northern climates
>need to heat their homes.

Also a good option. Ideally as a backup to passive and active solar thermal systems.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Natural Gas burns cleaner than refined oil, so yeah it's a viable option from that point of view.

However when it pollutes the ground water for the people living around the wells, the people living around the wells have some serious problems. If there was an abundant supply of water from our rivers, we wouldn't need to consume ground water. But not everyone has that option. If there is an easy solution to this problem then please tell us. I don't see an easy solution. But I do know that it gets damn cold where I live during the winter months and Natural Gas keeps me from freezing. Shit a few years ago I gutted a bathroom I was renovating exposing myself to my attic and I was amazing at how cold my house got that night (this was in the middle of the summer). I definitely did not procrastinate the next day as I installed some new insulation and vapor barrier before the next frigid night.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 2,991]

>If there is an easy solution to this problem then please tell us.

Biogas. It's methane, just like natural gas.

>I don't see an easy solution. But I do know that it gets damn cold where I live during
>the winter months and Natural Gas keeps me from freezing.

Right - so would passive and active solar. Natural gas is a good backup for sunless days, as are woodstoves, pellet stoves and heat pumps.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Did you watch the documentary?

[wsd 0]

Fracking seems to be the problem, not natrural gas extraction in itself.


There are huge methane deposits that exist as a crystalline form in our oceans, it can be extracted and as a side effect it can also avert a disaster waiting to happen, which is what does and will keep occurring each time these crystals get warmed or disturbed through the movement of tectonic plates and hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Did you watch the documentary?

[wsd 0]

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Did you watch the documentary?

Last Year...

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Fracking seems to be the problem, not natrural gas extraction in itself.


There are huge methane deposits that exist as a crystalline form in our oceans, it can be extracted and as a side effect it can also avert a disaster waiting to happen, which is what does and will keep occurring each time these crystals get warmed or disturbed through the movement of tectonic plates and hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor.

That's like saying the problem isn't the volcano, it's the lava.

[RonD1120 62]

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Right - so would passive and active solar. Natural gas is a good backup for sunless days, as are woodstoves, pellet stoves and heat pumps.

I doubt heat pumps would be of much value in Canada. They start losing efficiency when the outside temperature is in the 30's F. They are useless when the outside temp is in the 20's F.

Homes down here in FL add 5KW to 15KW heat strips for those really cold days, like below 70 F.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Amazon 7]

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Did you watch the documentary?

Yes.. tonight.. UN freaking believable that they got way with gutting all of the environmental rules..in the 2005 RUBBER STAMP rePUBIClown congress... nah.. does not surprise me at all.. now if we could get all of the people that passed that turd.... to drink the water.

Its really fucked up to be able to light the water coming out of your faucets. No wonder a certain segment wants to get rid of the EPA.. even if the EPA and the state EPA's are basically complicit.. in what will be the deaths of thousands of Americans by chemicals put into the groundwater by a handful of companies that have made BILLIONS.

I wonder what their actuaries feel is the cost of lives.... as offset by their corporate greed.

One good thing though... it seems most of the "development" is in RED STATES... who continue to vote for the people who are bought by the people who are killing them..

http://gaslandthemovie.com/

In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the Halliburton Loophole.

[Coreece 190]

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Homes down here in FL add 5KW to 15KW heat strips for those really cold days, like below 70 F.

...sorry, that was unexpected...made me laugh.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 62]

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Homes down here in FL add 5KW to 15KW heat strips for those really cold days, like below 70 F.

...sorry, that was unexpected...made me laugh.

Apparently you were the only one who saw the humor.

I telly ya', people here in FL are total wusses when it comes to a temperature drop. We had a PGR mission yesterday with temps in the low to mid 60's. Some of the guys were wearing multilayers with leather chaps. Sheesh!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[masterblaster72 0]

Just saw this documentary last night. Very, very disturbing that entire communities and peoples' very ability to drink clean water can be destroyed and that the fracking energy companies get away with complete impunity.

The guise is that we can be "energy independent" and "thwart the terrorists" by fracking in our own country. The reality is that the energy companies make quick money with zero accountability for the damage they cause. How "patriotic."

Seriously -- this country is absolutely fucked.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Amazon 7]

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Just saw this documentary last night. Very, very disturbing that entire communities and peoples' very ability to drink clean water can be destroyed and that the fracking energy companies get away with complete impunity.

The guise is that we can be "energy independent" and "thwart the terrorists" by fracking in our own country. The reality is that the energy companies make quick money with zero accountability for the damage they cause. How "patriotic."

Seriously -- this country is absolutely fucked.

Indeed.. the oil boys bringing their cesspool idea of conservation... and clean air, clean water, and clean air .. from the cesspool that is Texas... to the rest of America .
The part about the Administration and the Rubber Stamp Congress that Cheney and his buddiesmanaged getting the NO CULPABILITY for the pollution of any of the big gas companies into the legislation... is EPIC

( I am so glad there is no "producible" amounts of natural gas anywhere near any of my property.)

If you get your water from anywhere DOWN STREAM of any of the red areas or LIVE in the red areas... good luck with that good health thing.

[PiLFy 3]

"Whooo run Bartertown?"

[lurch 0]

"Not shit! Energy! No energy, no town! ME, king, Arab!"

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[jgoose71 0]

There are those of us that believe that nuclear energy should be expanded on. However, people think it will cause godzilla to rise against us or something.

At the onsite storage facilities of all the nuclear plants here in the U.S. there is enough material that if we were to recycle it, it could power every house in the U.S. for the next 12 years.

the problem is, getting the liberals on board to allow us to recycle this material and build new nuclear power plants to allow us to use this material. Not to mention, the transportation and storage of said material.

I think it's time to educate people on the subject. Electricity is easily moved across county, especially on all the high tech grids we have now a days.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318688,00.html

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[PiLFy 3]

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There are those of us that believe that nuclear energy should be expanded on. However, people think it will cause godzilla to rise against us or something.

At the onsite storage facilities of all the nuclear plants here in the U.S. there is enough material that if we were to recycle it, it could power every house in the U.S. for the next 12 years.

the problem is, getting the liberals on board to allow us to recycle this material and build new nuclear power plants to allow us to use this material. Not to mention, the transportation and storage of said material.

I think it's time to educate people on the subject. Electricity is easily moved across county, especially on all the high tech grids we have now a days.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318688,00.html

A question on that, if you're knowledgeable. I know there's a nuke engineer or two on the board. Spent rods are a problem because they take thousands of years to decay enough to be safe. If they're still that radioactive? Can't they be re-refined to, as you said, recycle them? Why isn't that done? I'm sure Iran or North Korea would love to get their hands on all our spent fuel rods.

[Amazon 7]

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There are those of us that believe that nuclear energy should be expanded on. However, people think it will cause godzilla to rise against us or something.

At the onsite storage facilities of all the nuclear plants here in the U.S. there is enough material that if we were to recycle it, it could power every house in the U.S. for the next 12 years.

the problem is, getting the liberals on board to allow us to recycle this material and build new nuclear power plants to allow us to use this material. Not to mention, the transportation and storage of said material.

I think it's time to educate people on the subject. Electricity is easily moved across county, especially on all the high tech grids we have now a days.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318688,00.html

A question on that, if you're knowledgeable. I know there's a nuke engineer or two on the board. Spent rods are a problem because they take thousands of years to decay enough to be safe. If they're still that radioactive? Can't they be re-refined to, as you said, recycle them? Why isn't that done? I'm sure Iran or North Korea would love to get their hands on all our spent fuel rods.

They can... and were( Hanford).. and are{Savannah}... the trouble is there is more than enough "weapons grade" material around. There used to be two HUGE reprocessing facilities at Hanford called PUREX 200 W and 200 E. They basically reprocessed the "spent" rods and took the weapons grade stuff out for weapons production.

One reason they are not done more is fear of nuke proliferation after India got nukes in the 70's

[billvon 2,991]

>Can't they be re-refined to, as you said, recycle them?

Yes. France does this for their nuclear power program. The problems are:

1) Reprocessing spent fuel is a lot more dangerous than enriching uranium to begin with. A lot more dangerous decay products (cesium, strontium etc) have to be dealt with.

2) Once you can reprocess and re-enrich fuel, then you can reprocess that same fuel to obtain weapons-grade uranium and plutonium. This presents a proliferation risk.

One way around these problems is to make MOX - take the spent fuel, mix in some (degraded) weapons grade plutonium and reuse it. That would get one more cycle out of it - and get rid of some otherwise useless plutonium.

[PiLFy 3]

What are they doing? Using up old weapon's grade material from decommissioned warheads? Is that just cheaper to do? Better than producing some troublesome byproducts like you said?

We already have a problem in that we've got more waste now than a place to put it. Granted, I don't know much about it. It seems like a flawed approach, though. We've got spent rods sitting in numerous semi-secure sites. Would they not be better guarded within the facilities? Nuke power is the biggest bang we have. It doesn't seem right to just piss away that resource by burying it in the salt mine.

[billvon 2,991]

>What are they doing? Using up old weapon's grade material from
>decommissioned warheads?

France? No, they're mainly reprocessing old fuel into new fuel. Reactor fuel isn't completely "used up" by modern reactors - it just degrades until the concentration of U235 (the 'active' stuff) is insufficient to support the reaction. Reprocessing effectively 'reconcentrates' this fuel. It also allows separation and concentration of fissionable materials created during the initial reaction, like plutonium. (If you do this it is technically called MOX fuel.)

>Nuke power is the biggest bang we have. It doesn't seem right to just piss
> away that resource by burying it in the salt mine.

For the most part I agree. The good thing about salt mines is that you can go in and get it back if you want. Dry cask storage is a lot cheaper and easier to retrieve if needed.