kelpdiver 2 #26 April 23, 2011 Quotewonder what the corporate mouthpieces here have to say... would have been nice if this committee included an economist or an accountant, rather than those who specialize in labor. No possible bias there, eh? I see a lot of potential for logical misleaps due to their use of averages (and unfortunately, averages from a 2004 study). Most notably - they assert the average customer spends 1,187 a year at Walmart. For those who buy their groceries, and I believe that's grown to a pretty large number over the past decade, that number is clearly low, and the impact of the estimated 1.1% increase will be higher. But more laughable is the notion that they can just take everyone under $12 (mean is 11.75) and bump them to $12, regardless of experience or title. Flattening the wage scale will destroy worker motivation. The lowest may feel better, but the more experienced will say fuck it and go elsewhere. Or Walmart will have to pay them more than 12, so the actual cost of this goes up dramatically. And while it included FICA employer taxes, didn't appear to consider any other payroll taxes or benefit costs. And worse, the idea that instead of price increases, they could make up for it with lower profits (the shareholders raise their hands here) or higher efficiency (Walmart is among the most efficiently run ever. Consider them like Nazis of retail) A substantial amount of this rather short paper focuses on percentages above/below 200% of the federal poverty line. This is used to justify the policy, but it means even less is spent on the actual claim being made. This entire brief is 18 pages and would require a lot more data collection to determine how much of their claims were true, outright false, or somewhere in between. It closes with "This research was funded in part through a contribution from American Rights at Work." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #27 April 23, 2011 My wife and I shop at Walmart all the time. I don't think their workers are worth $12/hr. Nice people and all but, not worth that kind of money.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #28 April 24, 2011 I believe Walmart's percentage share of the grocery market is now in the low to mid-20's." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #29 April 24, 2011 QuoteQuoteWalmart really doesn't care about most of the stuff mentioned. Their #1 goal (pretty much their only goal) is to provide the lowest priced merchandise as they can to the masses. If they could pay $1 per hour and still attract the labor they need, they'd would. If that meant their employees lived in 3rd world style tarpaper shacks - their rhetoric would be similar to their current speil. They would simply point out that they are responding to the market and that their goal is not to buy people homes and cars and health care, but simply to do right for their customers by providing the lowest possible prices. As long as people keep shopping there - that will not change. Of course Walmart has done their fair share to disembowel US labor (as much or more so than the unions they piss and moan about all the time) by carrying an inventory that is probably at least 90% made in Asia. I wonder if it was an unexpected benefit of their extreme philosophy on low prices, or if they had models that indicated purchasing all of their inventory from overseas would create a class that could not afford to shop anywhere else. Either way, their customer base is really locked in. Since products made overseas rival American made goods in quality and can be sold far cheaper for greater profit, there will always be stores importing and selling the stuff. Why should I pay $59.95 for an American made toaster that may last five years when I can buy a Chinese made toaster for $24.95 that will last 10 years? The days of "Made in the USA" meaning "Highest Quality" are gone. If all else were equal i would pay a small, maybe 10%, premium to buy Amaerican...but I, as most people, will not pay 25%-50%-100% more for something that may or may not be as good. Chances are it isn't. My experience, and what I've read from so-called experts, is that their quality is improving, but still overall lacking. There isn't really anything there, other than groceries, that I would buy. They tend to stock the cheapest possible version of just about everything they carry - but then again - that is their mission. At least these days you can usually get thru the instructions without much trouble." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #30 April 24, 2011 QuoteDisagree. Their #1 goal is to show profits to the shareholders. I stand corrected. Their goal is to pay shareholders as much as possible. Their chosen strategy to hit that goal is to market low quality merchandise as cheaply as possible." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 843 #31 April 24, 2011 Agreed. Also the main reason I try my best to not give them my money. Besides, their groceries suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #32 April 24, 2011 Quote Agreed. Also the main reason I try my best to not give them my money. Besides, their groceries suck! Comments like tht give sucking a bad name. When I buy groceries there, which is rare, I stick to the name brand stuff. The store brands can gag a goat.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #33 April 24, 2011 QuoteDisagree. Their #1 goal is to show profits to the shareholders. Followed closely by "Keep Rhys out of the storeYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #34 April 24, 2011 Quote Quote Disagree. Their #1 goal is to show profits to the shareholders. Followed closely by "Keep Rhys out of the store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35 April 24, 2011 Quote Quote Nope.. Try again Talking out of your ass again? http://www.financialpost.com/markets/currencies/index.html I will defer to you superior ability that you seem to be far far better at that trick... when I checked earlier.. when I actually made that post... it was at Par... I know its hard for you to fathom the fact that currencies fluctuate daily and even hourly... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #36 April 24, 2011 They fluctuate by fractions of a penny, not by $0.05 in a single day. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #37 April 25, 2011 What was your source? They don't always all use the same measure. But the canuck has a point. http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/CAD/USD/T Quote4/15/2011 Friday .95925 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/15/2011 4/16/2011 Saturday .96012 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/16/2011 4/17/2011 Sunday .95935 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/17/2011 4/18/2011 Monday .96440 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/18/2011 4/19/2011 Tuesday .95640 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/19/2011 4/20/2011 Wednesday .95260 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/20/2011 4/21/2011 Thursday .95275 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/21/2011 4/22/2011 Friday .95450 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/22/2011 4/23/2011 Saturday .95450 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/23/2011 4/24/2011 Sunday .95330 CAD USD CAD rate for 4/24/2011 US dollars have been worth less than Canadian dollars since new years, except for four days in late January.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamx 0 #38 April 25, 2011 I usually pay far less (shelf price) for the same item in the US vs Canada. So your slight edge means nothing when you pay $600 and I pay $495 Or $225 vs $160 PLUS your 13% sales tax (7% here) And isn't your income taxed at almost 30%? (20~ here) Do the math and cad$12/hr ends up being close to US minimum wage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #39 April 25, 2011 Quote PLUS your 13% sales tax (7% here) I only pay 5% sales tax. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamx 0 #40 April 25, 2011 Quote Quote PLUS your 13% sales tax (7% here) I only pay 5% sales tax. Well considering you can't even walk from your igloo to your snowmobile without slipping on frozen polar bear shit, I think you deserve the break I kid, I kid. I love Canada, but you can't really compare wages is what I'm sayin. You'd probably make more money joining the family dogsled operation, since you'd get paid in maple syrup and the exchange is highly favorable right now.. But this advice I'm givin ya, see, it's worth good money, so I'm gonna stop myself right here! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #41 April 25, 2011 Quote>If Wal-Mart raised everyone to that wage, would everyone shut the hell up about them? Nope. Because all those Wal-Mart workers would now have more purchasing power. They'd be willing to pay more for rent, for used cars, for food etc. As a result prices would rise - and the new number would be $14. Dreamdancer himself would probably attack Wal-Mart for paying only $12 an hour instead of a living wage. whereas billvon would prefer it if all those workers would work for $1 an hour and had no purchasing power at all - that way the corporation makes much more profit yippeee!stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #42 April 25, 2011 QuoteQuote>If Wal-Mart raised everyone to that wage, would everyone shut the hell up about them? Nope. Because all those Wal-Mart workers would now have more purchasing power. They'd be willing to pay more for rent, for used cars, for food etc. As a result prices would rise - and the new number would be $14. Dreamdancer himself would probably attack Wal-Mart for paying only $12 an hour instead of a living wage. whereas billvon would prefer it if all those workers would work for $1 an hour and had no purchasing power at all - that way the corporation makes much more profit yippeee! In contrast to yourself who would like to see everyone earning the exact same wage as everyone else and coporations would operate on a zero profit.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #43 April 25, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote>If Wal-Mart raised everyone to that wage, would everyone shut the hell up about them? Nope. Because all those Wal-Mart workers would now have more purchasing power. They'd be willing to pay more for rent, for used cars, for food etc. As a result prices would rise - and the new number would be $14. Dreamdancer himself would probably attack Wal-Mart for paying only $12 an hour instead of a living wage. whereas billvon would prefer it if all those workers would work for $1 an hour and had no purchasing power at all - that way the corporation makes much more profit yippeee! In contrast to yourself who would like to see everyone earning the exact same wage as everyone else and coporations would operate on a zero profit. surely that's billvon's viewpoint - a perfect corporate world where everyone gets absolutely nothing in earnings...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #44 April 25, 2011 >a perfect corporate world where everyone gets absolutely nothing in earnings... And the beatings - you forgot the daily beatings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #45 April 25, 2011 Quote >a perfect corporate world where everyone gets absolutely nothing in earnings... And the beatings - you forgot the daily beatings. which you'd want the workers to pay for stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #46 April 25, 2011 QuoteYou'd probably make more money joining the family dogsled operation, since you'd get paid in maple syrup and the exchange is highly favorable right now.. But this advice I'm givin ya, see, it's worth good money I am well aware of the differences between our two tax systems and well aware of where Canada and the US are different from each other and where we are similar. Currently it is actually cheaper for me to live in Alberta since I own a house here and it's paid off. But I had a great time when I called Colorado home and CO has some of the best weather anywhere. I don't know it all in life, I only know what I have been exposed to. But I honestly don't think I need you giving me advice on what life is like in these two countries. I have lived and worked in both countries? Have you? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #47 April 25, 2011 >which you'd want the workers to pay for Well, I'm sure the unions would step up to the plate and threaten to strike unless the beatings were free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #48 April 25, 2011 QuoteQuote>If Wal-Mart raised everyone to that wage, would everyone shut the hell up about them? Nope. Because all those Wal-Mart workers would now have more purchasing power. They'd be willing to pay more for rent, for used cars, for food etc. As a result prices would rise - and the new number would be $14. Dreamdancer himself would probably attack Wal-Mart for paying only $12 an hour instead of a living wage. whereas billvon would prefer it if all those workers would work for $1 an hour and had no purchasing power at all - that way the corporation makes much more profit yippeee! hmm...DD is steering clear of my post, it seems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #49 April 25, 2011 I'm just relieved to know that the rest of the retail world out there is paying their low-level employees more than $12/hr, that way all of Wal-mart's slaves have a much better place to go if they're ever able to escape. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #50 April 25, 2011 Quote>which you'd want the workers to pay for Well, I'm sure the unions would step up to the plate and threaten to strike unless the beatings were free. Of course if the beatings cost the workers $10 the Union could get them for free and would only increase dues by $20 and call it "just compensation for services rendered".HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites