Religion Question

[skygypsie 2]

Without reading other replies before responding...

throughout my rearing as a Catholic, the nuns teachings...

"unbaptized babies under the age of 7
( age of reckoning) go to limbo ! "

That is neither heaven, nor hell.

Teaching also the majority of those non-pure, but were somewhat morally righteous, would experience purgatory.

Though that it is done upon the end of man: Judgement Day !

Catholism's evolution to man made critics & critiques within the congregations, tainted my continuing practice.

There was a time I was involved in 'born again' Christianity until I was told by those in a weekly womens bible group...

unless my son; who was 11 at the time, did not announce publically, he received Christ as his Lord & Saviour, & he were to be struck down riding his bike & killed, he would go to hell.

They also informed me, unless I took to my Christmas tree, I was idolizing objects & not God...

I too would experience damnation !

My response: " C'ya "

I no longer refer to myself as religious, but spiritually Christian !

My experience has been, throughout interpretations, translations & teachings of such...

are either all over the place, or too rigid for the average spiritually strong 'human' ( sinner)...
to live without guilt !

Which in my belief, guilt is damning, in itself!

[jaybird18c 24]

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Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father"
He didn't say " My Father"
If we all have the same Father as Jesus and Jesus is God ,it follows that we are all God.
And just like the Christ we are all having a human experience .

The context here is that Jesus was teaching the people not to pray in meaningless repetition, like the Pharisees. He gave them the model for prayer.

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One more thing .., didn't Jesus tell us to forget all that old testament knownsense?

NO. He referred to it (a lot). "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (John 5:46)

[Coreece 190]

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What will happen to God's chosen people ( The Jews ).

Many accepted Christ as the Messiah. However for those that do not, it is believed that thousands of them will actually get to physically see Christ in his glory before they accept him and are saved...lucky S.O.B's

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How about Mary Magnalin, Jesus' wife, will she be there ? Yes, as a Jewish man, Jesus was married.

Early gnostics taught a lot of crap about Jesus so I'm sure there's some reference out there about that...could you please provide it?

If you say The Davinci Code, I'll about piss my pants.

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Mary Magnalin was also a Desciple.

Ya, so what? There were many woman disciples, just as there are today...

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I do have a religious back ground by the way.

Sounds like you may want to forget about your background and conentrate on future studies...just saying.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Channman 2]

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I can't believe I'm posting here (usually just lurk)... but I have a question that I figured some of the religious members on here could answer.

This applies to Christianity / Islam and most of the major versions of those (not so much to Buddhism or Hinduism). Using Christianity just for the sake of this example, as I think it is what most on this forum practice or are most familiar with.

We know that an unbaptized child / or one who hasn't accepted Jesus as lord and savior will go to hell - you must be baptized and accept Jesus etc in order to get into heaven. What about children / people born in Africa or New Guinea? Those who have never even heard of Christianity and therefore never even had a chance to choose whether or not they believe and follow this religion? For all of those people who never even had a chance, how is it acceptable / fair to send them to hell as non-believers? How can a fair and/or loving god be ok with this?

Yes, it is a Christian's job to spread the word etc.... but what about those who didn't ever hear it? I've asked Christian friends this and they can't explain it. Please enlighten me.
*Edited to specify not only baptized, but one who has accepted Christianity.

Well I hope I can answer your question: or at least make an attempt to answer it to your satisfaction.

From the New International Version "Bible"

Luke 23:39 - 43

39: One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
40: But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence?
41: We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42: Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43: Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

So to your point, "this man who was on a cross being crucified with Christ, had no time to get baptized, no time to ask for forgiveness to those who he sinned against, unable to atone for any of his wrong doing. But at some point in this man's pain and agony during crucifixion he moved passed any previous disbelief to humbling himself and making a simple request from his heart.

So this man as Christ promised is in paradise, certainly didn't deserve to be, never did anything to find himself worthy to be there other than through Grace.

Jesus started his Ministry among broken men, and ended it for 3 days before his resurrection surrounded by broken me. One man risked out for forgiveness in the only way he knew how and the other went to his death hurling insults.

[skygypsie 2]

How about Mary Magnalin, Jesus' wife, will she be there ? Yes, as a Jewish man, Jesus was married
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I thought Mary Magdalene was a whore, who wiped Jesus brow, as he carried the cross to the Mount & bowed at his feet...
seeking forgiveness, during his crucification

This is just one example of who's who & who's right in religious teachings & interpretations !

Personally, I've experienced & witnessed many who have approached & gone through the dying process...through Nursing with the terminally ill & in my personal life.

I believe we are somehow in full awareness of eminent death, & through the Grace of God...
we are given enough of a window of opportunity to seek forgiveness & acceptance of an all knowing God & of Our Saviour Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit...

despite the lives we've lived, our good deeds, or misdeeds we've done to ourselves, & others; as well as, failure to live & walk the life with God, throughout !

That God hears our hearts & remorseful cries of forgiveness...

and by his mercy, grants them; as all sins are forgiven upon the repentent through the Holy Spirit...
bringing us into his Kingdom !

[Coreece 190]

Forgive me, but I'm not sure I understand your point.

I'm not the one who said Mary Magdalene married Jesus.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Channman 2]

Well, I guess that experence is somewhat frustrating.

Romans 8:1 through 8 comes to mind.

For any Christ follower, it is important to remember there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And the only reason one maybe asked to profess their faith is to be a witness to others and how through Christ their life has changed.

It also important to remember we are all still sinners, working daily to be more like Christ.

[wmw999 2,439]

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For any Christ follower, it is important to remember there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And the only reason one maybe asked to profess their faith is to be a witness to others and how through Christ their life has changed.

Except, of course, from other followers of Christ, who say they're doing it all wrong

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skygypsie 2]

To Correce:
"Forgive me, but I'm not sure I understand your point.

I'm not the one who said Mary Magdalene married Jesus"


My apologies...I copied & pasted from your reply to "jumpsalot" !
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In reply to Channman:
"It also important to remember we are all still sinners, working daily to be more like Christ"

this thread & those responding, is an indication to me...
many of us are in effort of continuing in that attempt !

[Channman 2]

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For any Christ follower, it is important to remember there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And the only reason one maybe asked to profess their faith is to be a witness to others and how through Christ their life has changed.

Except, of course, from other followers of Christ, who say they're doing it all wrong

Wendy P.

I know that can be a problem...but your response requires me to ask....are you going about it all wrong

[jumpsalot-2 3]

Wow, the mouth on some Christians. "Whore"...I don't think you'll find that, in reference to Mary Magdalene in the Bible. If you can, let me know, but be specific. Here is a reference more near reality. If you have the time to read the entire page, good. If not, you may be just a little closed minded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene I don't think anyone can prove Jesus was married to Mary M., but lots of researchers are interested. Discovery Channel has a few documentories on the subject...example of one...Secrets of Mary Magdalene ( 2006 ) The Dead Sea Scrolls also makes a reference. Again, proving it....impossible.

Life is short ... jump often.

[david3 0]

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I don't think anyone can prove Jesus was married to Mary M., but lots of researchers are interested. Discovery Channel has a few documentories on the subject...example of one...Secrets of Mary Magdalene ( 2006 ) The Dead Sea Scrolls also makes a reference. Again, proving it....impossible.

Ye have little faith.

[skygypsie 2]

I'm confused !

The usage of the word 'whore', rather than prostitute or the statement:

"If you have the time to read the entire page, good. If not, you may be just a little closed minded."

OR, if I don't take the time to read it, makes me closed minded ?

I did read the article you referred to & though I did not read the scriptures I draw reference to here, it is indicative of the teachings I received in my days of Catholic Catechism !

The contrary studies & accounts of this example
( Mary Magdalene), are indicative of the statement I had made earlier, regarding the difference of interpretations, translations, & teachings !

This has been subjected to criticism & ridicule by theological scholars, religious sects, bar patrons, & threads, throughout.

Therefore my decision to vacate any organized religion, & chosing to worship spiritually, in ways that I chose....as a self proclaimed Christian !

If that makes me close minded...then there you have it, so be it !

I have cynically come to realize, not much on tv, including The Weather Channel, The Discovery Channel, The President Speaks to the Nation, nor the nightly news...are believable nor accurate

This article was one of many, I found on the internet.

None however, mentioned marriage between Jesus & her !
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The idea that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute comes from the account given in Luke 7:36-50 of a woman who anointed the feet of Jesus with her tears and ointment. She is described as ‘a woman of the city who was a sinner’, so this woman may have been a prostitute. Jesus told her to ‘Go in peace’. For some reason, people have thought that this woman was Mary Magdalene, although there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that.

The only mention of Mary Magdalene in any of the gospels before the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is in Luke 8:2, where she is described as one ‘from whom seven demons had gone out’.

[kittikat 0]

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So to your point, "this man who was on a cross being crucified with Christ, had no time to get baptized, no time to ask for forgiveness to those who he sinned against, unable to atone for any of his wrong doing. But at some point in this man's pain and agony during crucifixion he moved passed any previous disbelief to humbling himself and making a simple request from his heart.

I think some people are missing the original point or else focusing too much on the baptism idea. I was mostly asking how it is ok for people who have never had a chance to make a decision go to hell for not believing (which is my understanding of how it "works")?

I think RonD1120 answered my original question when he said:

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The Holy Bible clearly states that Christ is the gateway to eternal life. It is a gift from the grace of God. You have to decide to accept it. To not make a decision is making a decision against.

For those of you Christian's, how is this ok? How is this fair? How is your god a loving god?

Re-Andrew:

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Gawd it's time we put the fairy tales away as a society.

[kallend 2,026]

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Jesus taught us to pray "Our Father"
He didn't say " My Father"
If we all have the same Father as Jesus and Jesus is God ,it follows that we are all God.
And just like the Christ we are all having a human experience .

The context here is that Jesus was teaching the people not to pray in meaningless repetition, like the Pharisees. He gave them the model for prayer.

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One more thing .., didn't Jesus tell us to forget all that old testament knownsense?

NO. He referred to it (a lot). "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (John 5:46)

It's funny watching you true believers reinventing the rules of logic and the rules of language in order to avoid the contradictions of your faith.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

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It's funny watching you true believers reinventing the rules of logic and the rules of language in order to avoid the contradictions of your faith.

I'm sure that it is funny. Linear thinkers have goals, logic, methodology and empirical evidence to support their thoughts.

True believers tend to think from different spheres of consciousness, some physical and some spiritual or metaphysical. The English language is simply not adequate to describe their thoughts.

Get two or more true believers together and they can communicate, often without speaking. They share thoughts and experiences on the energy beam of God's love.

Call it mental telepathy if you like but that is not really an adequate term. Pentecostal Christians call it "a witness in the Spirit."

Edit to add:
That is why you can't use science prove something scientific to true believers.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,439]

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That is why you can't use science prove something scientific to true believers.

That's a pity. I'd expect you not to accept scientific rules for theology and the existence of God. Not believing scientific evidence for scientific conduct is silly.

It's what that language is built for. How do you think medicines are developed these days? New medical treatments?

It's not the same world as theology, why would you expect to use the same language?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 62]

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That is why you can't use science prove something scientific to true believers.

That's a pity. I'd expect you not to accept scientific rules for theology and the existence of God. Not believing scientific evidence for scientific conduct is silly.

It's what that language is built for. How do you think medicines are developed these days? New medical treatments?

It's not the same world as theology, why would you expect to use the same language?

Wendy P.

I was building on kallend's reference, "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science."

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney

It is the most meaningful reference I have seen here in SC. It gave me a real "Ah Hah" moment.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[popsjumper 2]

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It's funny watching you true believers reinventing the rules of logic and the rules of language in order to avoid the contradictions of your faith.

It's even more funny watching all the non-believers getting wadded up panties worrying about what others believe.

You guys complain about people pushing "religion" on you and never realize that you are, by far and away, while pushing your anti-religion mantra, the most vocal and the most tiresome group of the two.

"I don't want you to believe in (insert belief system of choice here) so I'm going to hammer you for all I'm worth!"

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Throttlebender 0]

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It's funny watching you true believers reinventing the rules of logic and the rules of language in order to avoid the contradictions of your faith.

It's even more funny watching all the non-believers getting wadded up panties worrying about what others believe.

You guys complain about people pushing "religion" on you and never realize that you are, by far and away, while pushing your anti-religion mantra, the most vocal and the most tiresome group of the two.

"I don't want you to believe in (insert belief system of choice here) so I'm going to hammer you for all I'm worth!"

I think if you really think about it harder, you'll probably retract that statement. The religious push has always far outweighed the other side.
How many times during a normal day do you hear something about a religious group, church, political situation being effected by religion, etc.? More than you hear about agnostics or atheists I'm certain.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[Heatmiser 0]

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It's funny watching you true believers reinventing the rules of logic and the rules of language in order to avoid the contradictions of your faith.

It's even more funny watching all the non-believers getting wadded up panties worrying about what others believe.

You guys complain about people pushing "religion" on you and never realize that you are, by far and away, while pushing your anti-religion mantra, the most vocal and the most tiresome group of the two.

"I don't want you to believe in (insert belief system of choice here) so I'm going to hammer you for all I'm worth!"

I think if you really think about it harder, you'll probably retract that statement. The religious push has always far outweighed the other side.
How many times during a normal day do you hear something about a religious group, church, political situation being effected by religion, etc.? More than you hear about agnostics or atheists I'm certain.

He didn't say who you hear about, he said who you hear FROM.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[jaybird18c 24]

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That is why you can't use science prove something scientific to true believers.

That's a pity. I'd expect you not to accept scientific rules for theology and the existence of God. Not believing scientific evidence for scientific conduct is silly.

It's what that language is built for. How do you think medicines are developed these days? New medical treatments?

It's not the same world as theology, why would you expect to use the same language?

Wendy P.

Wendy....I agree with you. And I'm proud of that. Because, in my old days in here as pajarito and now, that didn't happen very often. I know what he's referring to and I agree with him somewhat. There is a subjective spiritual component to biblical interpretation, however, we should not rely on our feelings primarily. Our faith should be driven by or theology. Paul said "Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:1, NASB, emphasis added)

I'm not discounting feelings but they can change and even be deceiving. Our rock that we lean on should always be the word of God which He has communicated to us through written language.

[wmw999 2,439]

Glad to see you back under whichever name, and I mean it. You've been missed.

That said, I must admit that the study of theology, particularly the more dogmatic studies, always struck me as being somewhat arrogant.

God is beyond our experience, yet there are people who say that they know exactly what the Bible means, and how Heaven and Hell work. Of any subject, this to me would be the one least accepting of dogmatism for that very reason.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[deltron80 0]

I was raised Christian and one of the main things that drove me away from it was that all the nicest and best human beings I knew were not Christian and thus were apparently going to Hell, while all the biggest assholes and selfish pricks I knew were Christian and supposedly going to Heaven. It's all total B.S.

[jaybird18c 24]

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I was raised Christian and one of the main things that drove me away from it was that all the nicest and best human beings I knew were not Christian and thus were apparently going to Hell, while all the biggest assholes and selfish pricks I knew were Christian and supposedly going to Heaven. It's all total B.S.

Christians should display love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Galatians 5:22) if they are growing in their sincere faith, however, they do not have the monopoly on morality. I know many non-Christians who live in many ways better than some I find in church. Of course, this is a self-righteousness with flawed motive but with an outward appearance of morality just the same (Romans 2:14-15). I do not mean to use the term self-righteous in my previous sentence in a negative way. I was just trying to describe it. It has everything to do with what we mean by "good." But back to the point. Christianity shouldn't be judged by the misconduct of its supposed followers. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." (Matthew 7:21) Not everyone sitting in the pews who claim the title of Christian really is one.