david3 0 #426 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteForget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the exact same reason it is OK to shoot a criminal in the middle of an arrest if he fights back, but it is not OK to hook a car battery up to his balls once back at the station. I'd opt for the battery if he had actionable info that would save the lives of my guys. And if he had no information but made something up so you would stop torturing him? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #427 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteForget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the exact same reason it is OK to shoot a criminal in the middle of an arrest if he fights back, but it is not OK to hook a car battery up to his balls once back at the station. I'd opt for the battery if he had actionable info that would save the lives of my guys. And if he had no information but made something up so you would stop torturing him? . Why would anyone care? He's a dead man anyway? Wouldn't it be more productive to try and get intel from him? What about his Constitutional Rights? Why wasn't he read his rights and then sent to Gitmo or brought to NY to stand trial? Isn't that what Obama proposed to do with KSM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #428 May 4, 2011 Quote Along those lines I wonder what the talking points would be today had it been Bush (this week), that went into another country, with out that countries knowledge or permission, with out a UN resolution ,or the support or knowledge of congress, and performed a military operation killing people in that country? Ya just gotta wonder The Bush administration would be held up on a pedestal. No one would be asking if he followed any laws by killing him. Bush should have done this years ago. I can't stand the man, but would have cheered him loudly if he had done this. I listen to Rush Limbaugh most days that I can. His opening yesterday was sickening. Wondering why Obama endangered innocent people in the compound, blah, blah, blah. Repulsive, when you think of the hundreds of thousands of innocent people GWB was responsible for getting killed. It's time for Republicans and Democrats to an extent, to realize we can't kill our way to peace. There will always be bad guys. Always. This shows that good police work can get the bad guy. Not invading a nation for no good reason. I don't always agree with things Obama does, but I am proud as hell of him for what he accomplished. And he laid his political future on the table to do this. If it went wrong, if we killed way too many innocent Pakistani's, got into a battle with their military or Osama Bin Laden wasn't there, it would have been open season on the president. I can only hope he has a schedule of bad guys to get now, and starts picking them off one by one. We have wasted trillions of war dollars for no results. It's time to rebuild America. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #429 May 4, 2011 QuoteWouldn't it be more productive to try and get intel from him? Exactly. Torture is a shitty way of getting intel out of people. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #430 May 4, 2011 Quote Dropping a bomb on a compound in a friendly country without 100% proof of OBL being there would be an act of war. News flash: we drop bombs on compounds in Pakistan regularly. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #431 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteBush lacked the will to get Bin Laden and focused on an easy target. Oh geeze..... The fact is that it was 2005 or so that OBL was able to settle down and stay in one place. If you think for one second that Bush would have done nothing if he had intel of OBL's position... Well you are smoking something. Giving credit to Obama... He did very well. But please, cut your Bush bashing to something a bit more realistic. .I agree with this one. I believe Bush would have aggressively gone after OBL if he could. When he said that thing about how finding Osama is not a top prority, he was probably just trying to put a brave face on the fact that at that time they didn't have any hot leads. I'm kind of disappointed with how some people are trying to use this event for partisan sniping. Fortunately most of the cooler heads on the left and the right agree that this was a good thing & support the President's decision. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #432 May 4, 2011 QuoteWhat if the criminal is NOT fighting back? I would have personally preferred him being captured. BUT that also opens up a gigantic can of worms (giving him a venue to spout his rhetoric, attacks in his name over and over again.. Etc). Still, I would have preferred him captured and interrogated. After a trial, he could have been executed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #433 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou aren't very good with definitions, are you? Better than you. QuoteUnfortunately you aren't entitled to invent your own definitions of words so you can win debates. That is a tactic out of YOUR playbook BTW. Feeble. I'm quite happy to use the FAA definition of aircraft. You used your own. Now you're trying the same tactic in this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #434 May 4, 2011 QuoteNews flash: we drop bombs on compounds in Pakistan regularly. WITH permission of the Govt there. They didn't know about this mission (since there was a HIGH likely hood that OBL would have been tipped off). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #435 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteForget about bin Laden for a minute. Why is it OK to put a bullet in a terrorists brain but not OK to waterboard him? For the exact same reason it is OK to shoot a criminal in the middle of an arrest if he fights back, but it is not OK to hook a car battery up to his balls once back at the station. I'd opt for the battery if he had actionable info that would save the lives of my guys. And if he had no information but made something up so you would stop torturing him? . Why would anyone care? He's a dead man anyway? Wouldn't it be more productive to try and get intel from him? What about his Constitutional Rights? Why wasn't he read his rights and then sent to Gitmo or brought to NY to stand trial? Isn't that what Obama proposed to do with KSM? I do not believe it was a kill only mission. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #436 May 4, 2011 QuoteI'm quite happy to use the FAA definition of aircraft. You used your own. Now you're trying the same tactic in this thread. Still waiting for you to try and dodge out of the SC definitions..... And still waiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #437 May 4, 2011 QuoteIf you think for one second that Bush would have done nothing if he had intel of OBL's position... Tora Bora. Mission turned over to warlords so full attention can be focused on Saddam. QuoteWhy did Obama send in a team instead of blasting the compound? Simple, we were not SURE he was there AND it was in a 'friendly' country. Dropping a bomb on a compound in a friendly country without 100% proof of OBL being there would be an act of war. Bombs would had been a Bush plan. You know, "shock and awe" them into submission. Kind of like what he did in Iraq. Yeah, that worked out just grand! 100,000 dead people would surely disagree. Truth, there were those who wanted to bomb the compound. Had Bush and Cheney been in charge, they would had dropped bombs. Glad that we have a President who can actually think and make decisions that are beneficial to stopping terrorist. Face the fact that Bush knee jerked his way through eight years and accomplished nothing more than prolonging the search for Bin Laden. QuoteDropping a bomb on a compound in a friendly country without 100% proof of OBL being there would be an act of war. I'd hardly call Pakistan a "friendly country", but that's besides the fact. The intel was good, but like any info there is always a shade of doubt. The question now is what to do about Pakistan? Bin Laden was living across the street from a military base. How could they not question who was in the biggest, most fortified home on the street? Are these people just brain dead or were they sheltering Bin Laden? Most likely they were sheltering him as they constantly refused to allow the U.S. to search for him there. Pakistan is a safe haven for Al Qaeda. We need to pull all funding out of there dirty, bloody hands and keep a very close eye on them. Pakistani government is just as guilty as the Taliban. You should really consider putting down your crack pipe."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #438 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteWouldn't it be more productive to try and get intel from him? Exactly. Torture is a shitty way of getting intel out of people. Right, but because of the "shoot to kill" order, we will never have that opportunity. We could have also brought him to NY for trial as was suggested to do with KSM. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-killing-us-story-change http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/05/04/147782.html So what has happened to the arguement that terrorists have the same rights as Americans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #439 May 4, 2011 QuoteTora Bora. Mission turned over to warlords so full attention can be focused on Saddam. Yes, we *thought* OBL was in a mountainous REGION. Fact is only you really seem to KNOW he was there: "The New York Times, Gen. Tommy Franks wrote, “We don’t know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001. Some intelligence sources said he was; others indicated he was in Pakistan at the time…Tora Bora was teeming with Taliban and Qaeda operatives … but Mr. bin Laden was never within our grasp.” So the difference was a mountain region vs a single house. A place pretty much on the border of two County's, vs a single house. QuoteBombs would had been a Bush plan. Really!!! you work for Bush back then? Bush didn't use bombs on Saddam, so your claims have zero data to back them up. QuoteYou should really consider putting down your crack pipe. You have admitted to using drugs.... So maybe you should stop smoking first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #440 May 4, 2011 QuoteYes, we *thought* OBL was in a mountainous REGION. And by turning the operation over to the warlords, we will never know. QuoteBush didn't use bombs on Saddam, so your claims have zero data to back them up. Is your brain as dead as Saddam's and Bin Laden's? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3563.htm Just Google it. QuoteYou have admitted to using drugs.... So maybe you should stop smoking first. Haven't smoked pot in near 2 years."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #441 May 4, 2011 Continuing to repeat the same claims about a "shoot to kill" order does not constitute additional evidence. No one has ever claimed terrorists have the same rights as Americans when they are in the middle of a battle. Once they're in custody, yes, but not while bullets are flying. Try reading up on the Law of Land Warfare. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #442 May 4, 2011 QuoteContinuing to repeat the same claims about a "shoot to kill" order does not constitute additional evidence. No one has ever claimed terrorists have the same rights as Americans when they are in the middle of a battle. Once they're in custody, yes, but not while bullets are flying. Try reading up on the Law of Land Warfare. READ????? On a subject not approved and vetted by FAUX News????? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #443 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuote Dropping a bomb on a compound in a friendly country without 100% proof of OBL being there would be an act of war. News flash: we drop bombs on compounds in Pakistan regularly. Ya And aspirin factories in assorted countries"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #444 May 4, 2011 New photo released about how Obama REALLY got OBL: (edited to add: from B3TA.com) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #445 May 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteCould it be that she was addressing exactly that documented and reported glob of people celebrating and not the misdirection of might-have-beens you listed? She also said, "If I had to use deadly force, I would not be cheerful/celebrating after doing so..." So unless the DEVGRU has females, or she works in the WH.... The general application applies. You asked me if I would rejoice if someone who hurt me or people I love got killed (paraphrasing, but I believe that was the general idea). The answer is still no. Yes, I know I am not one of the people who went out and killed him, but I know myself well enough to know that killing another person would not bring me joy. I know that in the same way I know I would not like peanut-butter-and-sardine-flavoured ice-cream, even though I've never tasted it."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #446 May 4, 2011 Quote I know that in the same way I know I would not like peanut-butter-and-sardine-flavoured ice-cream, even though I've never tasted it. Are you kidding? It's absolutely delicious!!!! It reminds me of goat tongue dipped in cod liver oil.... yummy!"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #447 May 4, 2011 Quote New photo released about how Obama REALLY got OBL: (edited to add: from B3TA.com) LMAO That was a good one Lighten things up a bit Thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #448 May 4, 2011 QuoteContinuing to repeat the same claims about a "shoot to kill" order does not constitute additional evidence. No one has ever claimed terrorists have the same rights as Americans when they are in the middle of a battle. Once they're in custody, yes, but not while bullets are flying. Try reading up on the Law of Land Warfare. Continuing to deny that he was captured alive and then ordered to be shot will not make the growing possibility that happened go away. Even the WH admits he wasn't armed but later "resisted". How does an unarmed person resist to the point that the only option is to shoot them in the head and chest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #449 May 4, 2011 So that's how the one helicopter got its self all banged up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #450 May 4, 2011 Quote Quote Continuing to repeat the same claims about a "shoot to kill" order does not constitute additional evidence. No one has ever claimed terrorists have the same rights as Americans when they are in the middle of a battle. Once they're in custody, yes, but not while bullets are flying. Try reading up on the Law of Land Warfare. Continuing to deny that he was captured alive and then ordered to be shot will not make the growing possibility that happened go away. Even the WH admits he wasn't armed but later "resisted". How does an unarmed person resist to the point that the only option is to shoot them in the head and chest? I think I will wait until next week to pay any more attention to this story. Maybe we can get down to one version for more than an hour by then"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
