Nataly 38 #101 May 2, 2011 QuoteI love your comments thus far in this thread. Three posts about how this won't help Obama get re-elected, one suggesting it may have been bin Laden's own guys that killed him, and one warning of retaliation. Would it hurt that much to just say "nice job everyone"? This was a nice accomplishment for all involved, I wish it hadn't taken so long, but I'm glad it's done. Blues, Dave Yes. I don't believe it was a good job. Even if I agreed with killing him (and I don't), it took 10 YEARS. How can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? Lots of people knew where he was. It doesn't fill me with confidence that all that US/international intelligence took 10 YEARS to accomplish it's "mission". Sorry."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #102 May 2, 2011 Looks like a house arrest in Pakistan, and of course there will be evidence that the Pakistani intelligence knew, and approved his cover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #103 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteI love your comments thus far in this thread. Three posts about how this won't help Obama get re-elected, one suggesting it may have been bin Laden's own guys that killed him, and one warning of retaliation. Would it hurt that much to just say "nice job everyone"? This was a nice accomplishment for all involved, I wish it hadn't taken so long, but I'm glad it's done. Blues, Dave Yes. I don't believe it was a good job. Even if I agreed with killing him (and I don't), it took 10 YEARS. How can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? Lots of people knew where he was. It doesn't fill me with confidence that all that US/international intelligence took 10 YEARS to accomplish it's "mission". Sorry. You don’t think we should have pursued Osama Bin Laden? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #104 May 2, 2011 QuoteLooks like a house arrest in Pakistan, and of course there will be evidence that the Pakistani intelligence knew, and approved his cover. Don't kid yourself... People from around the entire world knew."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #105 May 2, 2011 QuoteYou don’t think we should have pursued Osama Bin Laden? I think it's ridiculous to villify one person for the acts of many. I think de-stabilising and stopping terrorism will take much more than the removal of one leader. I think praising the killing of a person based on our beliefs but denoucing the killing of someone else based on their beliefs is ridiculous. I think they have legitimate beefs against the West even though we don't approve of their ways of dealing with it - I think this act supports their hatred of the West. I think before we can truly hope to get rid of terrorism/war, The West needs to take a long hard look at its policies and reform from within."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #106 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCan you say four more years? Well, more like 5.5, but yeah. The election is his to lose. Nobody can take it away from him now. That's exactly what people said about George HW Bush after Desert Storm. GHWB lost it, in part, because of the unsatisfying ending of Gulf War 1. The only thing that keeps Obama from winning in 2012 is if the economy goes into a worse recession than the one that hit at the end of GWB's term. Nobody wants that, but even then, who on the Republican side has an actual answer when it comes to the economy? Certainly not the asshats suggesting cuts to Social Security and Medicare. That's certainly not going to get them elected. What about tax cuts for billionaires? That's a winner.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #107 May 2, 2011 QuoteYes. I don't believe it was a good job. Well, everybody who lifted a finger in the fight against him thinks it was a fucking great job. QuoteEven if I agreed with killing him (and I don't), it took 10 YEARS. So what, you think there should be a statute of limitations for thousands of murders both in the US and around the world? Do you think we should pursure any criminals at all. What the fuck? QuoteHow can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? No they haven't, stop making things up. QuoteLots of people knew where he was. It doesn't fill me with confidence that all that US/international intelligence took 10 YEARS to accomplish it's "mission". Sorry. I'm sure you could have done a much better job. You have no idea what you're talking about. To everyone who's up on their bullshit high horse about how people shouldn't celebrate, and we should have gotten him earlier, and you don't believe he's really dead, I have just one thing to say. From the bottom of my heart: FUCK YOU. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #108 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou don’t think we should have pursued Osama Bin Laden? I think it's ridiculous to villify one person for the acts of many. I think de-stabilising and stopping terrorism will take much more than the removal of one leader. I think praising the killing of a person based on our beliefs but denoucing the killing of someone else based on their beliefs is ridiculous. I think they have legitimate beefs against the West even though we don't approve of their ways of dealing with it - I think this act supports their hatred of the West. I think before we can truly hope to get rid of terrorism/war, The West needs to take a long hard look at its policies and reform from within. Okay but do you think we should have tried to capture him? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #109 May 2, 2011 Quote The girl grew up and married her Prince and the bad guy is dead, welcome to the Disney weekend!!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #110 May 2, 2011 Quote QuoteHow can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? No they haven't, stop making things up. Yes, they have. Change your news channel. Could I have done a better job?? That's totally beside the point - "intelligence" implies superior intellect... If the world's "best brains" took 10 years to accomplish this "task" I *do* find that worrying."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #111 May 2, 2011 Quote Yes. I don't believe it was a good job. Even if I agreed with killing him (and I don't), it took 10 YEARS. How can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? Lots of people knew where he was. It doesn't fill me with confidence that all that US/international intelligence took 10 YEARS to accomplish it's "mission". Sorry. .... official told reporters that Obama's administration did not share intelligence gathered beforehand with any other country -- including Pakistan -- for security reasons. The official said that only a small group of people inside the U.S government knew about this operation in advance.... We finally learned something. DON'T tell others what you are about to do! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #112 May 2, 2011 QuoteYes, they have. Change your news channel. I'm open to learning something new. Please share. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #113 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuote QuoteHow can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? No they haven't, stop making things up. Yes, they have. Change your news channel. Could I have done a better job?? That's totally beside the point - "intelligence" implies superior intellect... If the world's "best brains" took 10 years to accomplish this "task" I *do* find that worrying. Call me naïve but I have to believe if Osama was being interviewed (and I don’t mean the tapes he released) it would have been on every news channel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #114 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteYes. I don't believe it was a good job. Well, everybody who lifted a finger in the fight against him thinks it was a fucking great job. QuoteEven if I agreed with killing him (and I don't), it took 10 YEARS. So what, you think there should be a statute of limitations for thousands of murders both in the US and around the world? Do you think we should pursure any criminals at all. What the fuck? QuoteHow can you explain that, given journalists have been interviewing him well beyond 9/11? No they haven't, stop making things up. QuoteLots of people knew where he was. It doesn't fill me with confidence that all that US/international intelligence took 10 YEARS to accomplish it's "mission". Sorry. I'm sure you could have done a much better job. You have no idea what you're talking about. To everyone who's up on their bullshit high horse about how people shouldn't celebrate, and we should have gotten him earlier, and you don't believe he's really dead, I have just one thing to say. From the bottom of my heart: FUCK YOU. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBt-nirXQDEWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #115 May 2, 2011 QuoteOkay but do you think we should have tried to capture him? . Absolutely. Him AND all the terrorists who follow him. But only as one side of the solution. "We" can't simply look at what "they" are doing wrong... The whole notion that we need to blame/villify a single person is a scary concept. There is historical precedent of this (Hitler immediately comes to mind), when in fact the "machine" of destruction was the result of a complex web of systems/structures/hierarchy/psychology. We need to really look at all the many, many, many issues surrounding war/terrorism/poverty/exploitation if we want real progress to be made. Forgive me if I don't think this constitutes "real progress". ETA - I will grant that it does have symbolic significance. But again, this could be good (closure for the victims of 9/11) and bad (martyrdom according to the followers of Al Quaeda)."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #116 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteYes, they have. Change your news channel. Could I have done a better job?? That's totally beside the point - "intelligence" implies superior intellect... If the world's "best brains" took 10 years to accomplish this "task" I *do* find that worrying. Call me naïve but I have to believe if Osama was being interviewed (and I don’t mean the tapes he released) it would have been on every news channel. Ok. Well, I've been watching Al Jazeera and they interviewed a journalist who interviewed Bin Laden 3 times (once, I believe, in 2003 - when was 9/11??)... But I guess that's not a reliable source..."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #117 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteOkay but do you think we should have tried to capture him? . Absolutely. Him AND all the terrorists who follow him. But only as one side of the solution. "We" can't simply look at what "they" are doing wrong... The whole notion that we need to blame/villify a single person is a scary concept. There is historical precedent of this (Hitler immediately comes to mind), when in fact the "machine" of destruction was the result of a complex web of systems/structures/hierarchy/psychology. We need to really look at all the many, many, many issues surrounding war/terrorism/poverty/exploitation if we want real progress to be made. Forgive me if I don't think this constitutes "real progress". ETA - I will grant that it does have symbolic significance. But again, this could be good (closure for the victims of 9/11) and bad (martyrdom according to the followers of Al Quaeda). Not real progress but something that needed to be done. Don’t misunderstand me I don’t think this ends anything either. My point is he was killed in an attempt to bring him in to custody. You called it murder. If they just wanted to kill him they could have done that with a missile strike. They would have preferred to take him alive. He took a “You’ll never take me alive attitude” and was killed resisting (with fire arms) arrest. Should we have just left when he didn’t want to go? As far as closure, I don’t believe you can have such a thing when a loved one dies. I do believe you can stop having the salt rubbed into the wound though. Osama being free was that salt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #118 May 2, 2011 There is a record of an interview by al Jazeera in October, 2001, about one month after 9/11. Nothing since that I can find. Are you willing to enlighten us with actual facts, or will we have to be happy with, "once, I believe, in 2003?" Like I said, stop making things up. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #119 May 2, 2011 Any one think its funny/odd that this supposedly happened 8 days ago and they wait and its made public on the exact day Bush claimed "mission accomplished " ? Not a day earlier,,not a day later.. c'mon. All reports leading up to this that i have read , reference a specific path/mission started over 4 years ago. ( the Pakistan connection ) While Obama has been certainly more eager than Bush, this victory could have easily happened on the next Presidents watch,,or the one after,,, smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #120 May 2, 2011 Quote ETA - I will grant that it does have symbolic significance. But again, this could be good (closure for the victims of 9/11) and bad (martyrdom according to the followers of Al Quaeda). Victims of 9/11 include the population of the United States (and other countries, for that matter), not just the immediate relatives of the people who died. And the whole martyrdom thing is kind of a dead herring, because it's not like bin laden was lacking in motivational ability while alive. In fact, it was probably his strongest ability. Personally, I sometimes also use the null to validate or disprove an opinion. Bin Laden was the man behind 9/11/01. We can a) go after him for whatever "justice" we can effect, or b) let him go due to fears about martyrdom. The flaccidity required by the second is abhorrent to me. Once the team arrived on site to effect his capture, they found themselves engaged in a firefight. They could a) go forward with the kill option on the order or b) run away, clapping coconuts together. In both of these decisions, I think "a" was the better option. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #121 May 2, 2011 QuoteLooks photoshopped I agree, but it came from a good source.... It was also shown on Pakistani TV. QuoteWhy if they had the body did they dump it out at sea before confirming to the world that they got the right man like they did with Al Zawahiri? Muslim burial rights say a body should be buried within 24 hours. They left it at sea to make sure the site didn't become a shrine to him. You may ask why we are treating his body with any level of respect.... So we do not piss off Muslims and are not considered brutish in regard to the faith. Personally, I would have fed him to some hogs on the 9/11 site and then had a BBQ with beer and mostly naked women cooking the hogs. But I am not a politician. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #122 May 2, 2011 QuoteAny one think its funny/odd that this supposedly happened 8 days ago and they wait and its made public on the exact day Bush claimed "mission accomplished " ? Not a day earlier,,not a day later.. c'mon. It happened last night. Are you posting from the future? QuoteAll reports leading up to this that i have read , reference a specific path/mission started over 4 years ago. ( the Pakistan connection ) While Obama has been certainly more eager than Bush, this victory could have easily happened on the next Presidents watch,,or the one after,,, This "path/mission" started about nine years, seven months, and twenty days ago. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #123 May 2, 2011 Quote Any one think its funny/odd that this supposedly happened 8 days ago and they wait and its made public on the exact day Bush claimed "mission accomplished " ? Not a day earlier,,not a day later.. c'mon. All reports leading up to this that i have read , reference a specific path/mission started over 4 years ago. ( the Pakistan connection ) While Obama has been certainly more eager than Bush, this victory could have easily happened on the next Presidents watch,,or the one after,,, ABC radio was commenting on when this all started the AM as well The fact that the currier operation was identified is what got to BL finally The Intel on that currier operation was gained 4 years ago"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #124 May 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteI love your comments thus far in this thread. Three posts about how this won't help Obama get re-elected, one suggesting it may have been bin Laden's own guys that killed him, and one warning of retaliation. Would it hurt that much to just say "nice job everyone"? This was a nice accomplishment for all involved, I wish it hadn't taken so long, but I'm glad it's done. Blues, Dave Oh course the navy Seal team did a fantastic job. Didn't think I needed to say that. Since they probably don't read my comments on this site, who do I need to say that for? My comments so far are for those whose knee-jerk reactions are over the top if they think this is going to matter in the next election. I'm also concerned about any retaliation, aren't you? BTW, I think it's pretty sick that people would go out in the middle of the night, head to the White House or Times Square and rejoice. Reminds me of the people in the ME who were rejoicing when the WTC was hit. People are posting their opinions of the action in this thread, and until this one, your's seeemed pretty negative. As for the people celebrating the kill...meh, I can understand the emotion, but it's not my style. I'm glad the task was carried out successfully. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #125 May 2, 2011 QuoteWhat victory? We did what we said we would do. To many people, OBL was a hero that was untouchable. Him dying sends a message that we can find anyone and that we will not stop. QuoteUnfortunately today changes nothing except the POTUS popularity ratings. It is an emotional win for us and an emotional loss for them. Not the end, but still a victory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
