jimbrown 0 #1 May 15, 2011 So I'm readin' the other day about suicide rates amongst the US armed forces. Seems they are at record highs!!!!!! Why is that do ya' think? Is it because this crop of soldiers has been molly coddled their entire life and *self-esteemed* all through their school years where everyone is a "winner" even the kid who crossed the finish line last? Or could it be that these kids who joined with the highest ideals and who thought they were doing the right thing have come to realize that in Iraq and Afghanistan they weren't doing the right thing" That the US , themselves , and their fellow soldiers were all doing the wrong thing? I don't know but there must be some reason for the skyrocketing number of soldier suicides. Does anyone have an idea? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 May 15, 2011 QuoteIs it because this crop of soldiers has been molly coddled their entire life and *self-esteemed* all through their school years where everyone is a "winner" even the kid who crossed the finish line last? Oh, I'm sure it's because they're not as macho as you.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #3 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteIs it because this crop of soldiers has been molly coddled their entire life and *self-esteemed* all through their school years where everyone is a "winner" even the kid who crossed the finish line last? Oh, I'm sure it's because they're not as macho as you. I don't know if I would be considered "Macho"( i perform as a cross dresser three nights a week at Jakes' Hometown Bar in Salem SC www.jakesbar.com) but the fact is that I have not commited suicide while record numbers of US Iraq and Afghanistan vets have. So what is the reason for this epidemic of military suicides? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 May 15, 2011 QuoteSo what is the reason for this epidemic of military suicides? There are lots of reasons and I doubt any one can be singled out as "the" reason.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #5 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteSo what is the reason for this epidemic of military suicides? There are lots of reasons and I doubt any one can be singled out as "the" reason. Well? Care to discuss or expand ? What do you believe to be the reasons for this spike? Why is it so much higher than in past wars? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bqmassey 0 #6 May 15, 2011 For me, the most difficult part of the deployment (emotionally) was after I got back. I didn't have any major at-home issues so I was fine, but a lot of people aren't that lucky. You spend a year or more over there fantasizing about how great things are at home, how you just can't wait to get back, and how awesome it's going to be. You get home and for a week or two everyone's happy to see you, things are great, there's no rockets or bullets and family friends are all being nicer than usual. Then, all of the typical civilian stress hits. Financial issues, family and relationship issues, children that don't know you anymore or have gotten used to you being gone, etc. For those with wives or children, a years worth of problems get dumped on you. You realize that for a year you were gone, and things AREN'T like they were when you left. Your friends and family have gone on with their lives, they weren't on pause. Me and some buddies stopped to eat at fast food joint. This was within a week or two of getting back. I was watching some guys my age, maybe a couple of years younger, play some fantasy card game at another table. The more I watched them, the more infuriated I got. They were so wrapped up in some fantasy world, getting mad at each other for having their card beat (or something like that, I don't really know how it works). They got all up in arms about some fucking playing cards. I got very, very angry. I kept my mouth shut, but I'm sure I was red in the face. I couldn't believe how different these kids' problems were from what ours were so recently. They're bad day is when they lose a playing card, while people their age were on the other side of the world... THEIR bad day.... I didn't say anything. We left, and I spent some time evaluating myself. I don't get upset like that anymore, it was just shocking to come back to such an entirely different perspective on life. Now, on top of that, add financial issues, relationship issues, parenting issues, and a whole bunch of other things... and you can see why people might be a little bit overwhelmed by it. I don't know how different things are today from the other wars. Maybe daily life in the civilian world is just more stressful, in general. Maybe the economy and financial issues have something to do with it. I do think, though, that the suicides are probably reported much more consistently these days, that shit is probably tracked a lot better now. I don't really know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #7 May 15, 2011 QuoteFor me, the most difficult part of the deployment (emotionally) was after I got back. I didn't have any major at-home issues so I was fine, but a lot of people aren't that lucky. You spend a year or more over there fantasizing about how great things are at home, how you just can't wait to get back, and how awesome it's going to be. You get home and for a week or two everyone's happy to see you, things are great, there's no rockets or bullets and family friends are all being nicer than usual. Then, all of the typical civilian stress hits. Financial issues, family and relationship issues, children that don't know you anymore or have gotten used to you being gone, etc. For those with wives or children, a years worth of problems get dumped on you. You realize that for a year you were gone, and things AREN'T like they were when you left. Your friends and family have gone on with their lives, they weren't on pause. Me and some buddies stopped to eat at fast food joint. This was within a week or two of getting back. I was watching some guys my age, maybe a couple of years younger, play some fantasy card game at another table. The more I watched them, the more infuriated I got. They were so wrapped up in some fantasy world, getting mad at each other for having their card beat (or something like that, I don't really know how it works). They got all up in arms about some fucking playing cards. I got very, very angry. I kept my mouth shut, but I'm sure I was red in the face. I couldn't believe how different these kids' problems were from what ours were so recently. They're bad day is when they lose a playing card, while people their age were on the other side of the world... THEIR bad day.... I didn't say anything. We left, and I spent some time evaluating myself. I don't get upset like that anymore, it was just shocking to come back to such an entirely different perspective on life. Now, on top of that, add financial issues, relationship issues, parenting issues, and a whole bunch of other things... and you can see why people might be a little bit overwhelmed by it. I don't know how different things are today from the other wars. Maybe daily life in the civilian world is just more stressful, in general. Maybe the economy and financial issues have something to do with it. I do think, though, that the suicides are probably reported much more consistently these days, that shit is probably tracked a lot better now. I don't really know. Well thanks for that 1st hand account, bqmassey. You mentioned financial issues. What financial issues are these GIs likely facing upon their return? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerseyShawn 0 #8 May 15, 2011 Soldiers are conditioned/programmed to live and deal with living in a wartime environment. They arent reconditioned/reprogrammed for normal society when they get back home. I think if they were to be trained to be regular civilians again the suicide rate would be lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #9 May 15, 2011 QuoteSoldiers are conditioned/programmed to live and deal with living in a wartime environment. They arent reconditioned/reprogrammed for normal society when they get back home. I think if they were to be trained to be regular civilians again the suicide rate would be lower. Youmay be correct , Jersey Shawn, but that is the way it has always been. Why is there such a spike in soldier suicides in these wars??? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #10 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteIs it because this crop of soldiers has been molly coddled their entire life and *self-esteemed* all through their school years where everyone is a "winner" even the kid who crossed the finish line last? Oh, I'm sure it's because they're not as macho as you. LOL. quade, I get the sense from your posts over the last week or so that you have a lot of anger in you man.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteIs it because this crop of soldiers has been molly coddled their entire life and *self-esteemed* all through their school years where everyone is a "winner" even the kid who crossed the finish line last? Oh, I'm sure it's because they're not as macho as you. LOL. quade, I get the sense from your posts over the last week or so that you have a lot of anger in you man. Because I have little sympathy for somebody that denigrates the honor and heroics of our men and women in uniform? Interesting analysis on your part. Let's be clear here, what JB, a person hiding behind a vail of anonymity, said was classless.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #12 May 15, 2011 [replyBecause I have little sympathy for somebody that denigrates the honor and heroics of our men and women in uniform?Quote I don't want or need your sympathy , Mr. Quade. As far as the honor of our men in uniform I'll give them that! They are certainly performing honorably as best they know. Thing is .., they have been subjected to the same propaganda as the rest of the country and fell for it just as hard. Maybe harder. The Fact is that the invasion of IRAQ is criminal. Any one involved in that action is a War Criminal!!! What say you? Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wsd 0 #13 May 15, 2011 I say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government. The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #14 May 15, 2011 QuoteI say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government.Quote First off, show me the US declaration of war against Iraq or Afghanistan. Congress never declared it (spineless worthless parasites). Wasn't there a recent case where a german soldier was tried as a war criminal for his participation in a war declared by Germany? Here is a question for you ,wsd, should soldiers of any army be held for trial when they are involved in crimes against human rights and humanitty while following "orders". Do soldiers have a moral obligation to disobey illegal orders or do they get a pass, a get out of jail free card when they follow them? What say you? Peace, Jim B The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 2 #15 May 15, 2011 I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the trollOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #16 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #17 May 15, 2011 QuoteI say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government. The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. But the substance of his point isn't about "the rules of war". He's suggesting, I think, that at some point you should have the better judgement to decide when you are being used as a tool.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #18 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #19 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #20 May 15, 2011 QuoteSoldiers are conditioned/programmed to live and deal with living in a wartime environment. They arent reconditioned/reprogrammed for normal society when they get back home. I think if they were to be trained to be regular civilians again the suicide rate would be lower. There is some level of truth to this but honestly from my experience over the last 11 years one of the biggest problems is that our military is no longer trained the way they should be. As people have been mentioning for years our military has become soft. Drill Sergeants are no longer allowed to intentionally induce stress in basic trainees, everybody has to feel special(black beret, CAB, etc.), nobody is toughened up anymore. I joined in '99 and even then I personally felt let down by the challenges that were presented to me in my initial training, I felt it should have been far more difficult. It is even worse now, and I see the results of our softer training every day when I walk around the post and see the way soldiers carry themselves. We need to quit trying to change the way we approach our young soldiers, quit coddling the younger generation and force them to either toughen up or move on. I have heard some of the senior leaders in the Army's Training and Doctrine Command(which oversees basic training) mention that recruits nowadays will quit if they are yelled at or stressed, so the training has been softened accordingly to accommodate their needs. I say toughen up or get the fuck out of my military. Every time I watch a unit rotate into theatre there is a rash of suicides in the first month. Soldiers so afraid of the big bad world that they pull the trigger on themselves within days of leaving home, and the only people to blame for it is the leaders in the military. There is so much desperation to keep recruiting numbers up that we have stopped looking for the most qualified, and lowered the standards. We as a society have become weak and the military is a direct reflection of that.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #21 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) Ryoder, two things - How is he wrong. I don't understand because: 1) "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion" and 2) Please note that he said "if" meaning that he was trying to be definitive. AS far as the OP... I think he raises a good question. So far only 1 has offered any real response to his question. While I don't have answers, other than what a couple of others contributed, that are related to recent "military action", I can recall from my Viet Nam era experience that many of the issues that Brandon indicated also applied to many of the GIs returning then, too. On top of that, we didn't enjoy the support of the populace that recent warriors do. IMHO, that was probably the biggest contributing factor for suicides by Viet Nam vets.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #22 May 15, 2011 QuoteYou spend a year or more over there fantasizing about how great things are at home, how you just can't wait to get back, and how awesome it's going to be. Even though my time over there was nowhere near what you guys had to put up with, I can understand your frustration. As I've stated before, my time was on a LPH off of Iran. We spent over 100 days sitting there waiting for the shit to hit. Near everyday was 24 hours at general quarters. Each day we were harassed by Iranian gunboats. It was stressful. Couldn't wait to get back to San Diego and my girlfriend. There were 3 suicides on the ship while there. One marine shot himself after a dear john letter. One cobra pilot took an overdose after one of the cobras crashed on the flight deck. We had to push the the helicopter over the side as it was burning with the two pilots still in it. And, one sailor slit his wrist and bled out after a dear john letter. My girlfriend decided she couldn't wait for me. Got a dear john from her. I was depressed about it, but didn't get so depressed that suicide looked good. I had a stack of bills to pay, thanks to her, but was happy to pay them just to be done with them. There was no fanfare when we returned. I had no girlfriend or family waiting on the pier for me. Spent several days just getting drunk. I turned 21 years old while over there. No party on my birthday. No one really seemed to even give a shit about what we did over there. There is no real record of our sacrifices. Life in the U.S. just went on without the many military men who were sitting off of a distant country waiting for war. No one seemed to even know we were there. But we knew and we were proud to have served. Thanks to a Facebook page for my old ship, a lot of us have been able to connect again. One of my old Navy buddies asked if anyone remembers the cobra we lost. No one as of yet has said anything. The thought that those pilots may had still been alive when we pushed it into the drink is still on my mind. That is one memory I wish I could forget. I really do understand your frustration. I felt the same way and often just wanted to beat the crap out of some civilian kid who was my age, but living a carefree life while others his age was protecting his freedom. I got over it. You will too, in time."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #23 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) I'm sorry, but you're the one who is wrong per that very definition that you linked. But even so, you did not read what I wrote closely.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fossg 0 #24 May 15, 2011 Well, heres my take on the subject. It is said the military is a reflection of the society it supports. In my civillian job I work as a probation officer with juveniles. In the last 10 years or so I have seen a dramatic spike in minors who have a suicidal ideation. It was so pronounced that we have had to take additional training in how to recognize these kids and refer help for them. On the military side of the house, on my last deployment we had to have ''suicide watch" on three seperate ocasions. This was done as a saftey measure before we could get the soldiers evacuated to Germany for proper treatment. There was no common thread with the cases. One had a wife who was leaving him, another was financial problems, the third I can't even begin to describe. The kid had more problems than bayer has asprin. This is a problem that we did not have to deal with in the past. ( I have been involved with the military since 75 in either active or reserve status) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 2 #25 May 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Hi JB Didn't ask for your peace, and don't really need it. "It don't mean nothing" Are you a Vet? Do you know what a REMF is? Why are you concerned about the number of military suicides? Are you aware that 18 vets are commiting suicide every day?One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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wsd 0 #13 May 15, 2011 I say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government. The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #14 May 15, 2011 QuoteI say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government.Quote First off, show me the US declaration of war against Iraq or Afghanistan. Congress never declared it (spineless worthless parasites). Wasn't there a recent case where a german soldier was tried as a war criminal for his participation in a war declared by Germany? Here is a question for you ,wsd, should soldiers of any army be held for trial when they are involved in crimes against human rights and humanitty while following "orders". Do soldiers have a moral obligation to disobey illegal orders or do they get a pass, a get out of jail free card when they follow them? What say you? Peace, Jim B The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 2 #15 May 15, 2011 I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the trollOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbrown 0 #16 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #17 May 15, 2011 QuoteI say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government. The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. But the substance of his point isn't about "the rules of war". He's suggesting, I think, that at some point you should have the better judgement to decide when you are being used as a tool.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #18 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #19 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #20 May 15, 2011 QuoteSoldiers are conditioned/programmed to live and deal with living in a wartime environment. They arent reconditioned/reprogrammed for normal society when they get back home. I think if they were to be trained to be regular civilians again the suicide rate would be lower. There is some level of truth to this but honestly from my experience over the last 11 years one of the biggest problems is that our military is no longer trained the way they should be. As people have been mentioning for years our military has become soft. Drill Sergeants are no longer allowed to intentionally induce stress in basic trainees, everybody has to feel special(black beret, CAB, etc.), nobody is toughened up anymore. I joined in '99 and even then I personally felt let down by the challenges that were presented to me in my initial training, I felt it should have been far more difficult. It is even worse now, and I see the results of our softer training every day when I walk around the post and see the way soldiers carry themselves. We need to quit trying to change the way we approach our young soldiers, quit coddling the younger generation and force them to either toughen up or move on. I have heard some of the senior leaders in the Army's Training and Doctrine Command(which oversees basic training) mention that recruits nowadays will quit if they are yelled at or stressed, so the training has been softened accordingly to accommodate their needs. I say toughen up or get the fuck out of my military. Every time I watch a unit rotate into theatre there is a rash of suicides in the first month. Soldiers so afraid of the big bad world that they pull the trigger on themselves within days of leaving home, and the only people to blame for it is the leaders in the military. There is so much desperation to keep recruiting numbers up that we have stopped looking for the most qualified, and lowered the standards. We as a society have become weak and the military is a direct reflection of that.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #21 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) Ryoder, two things - How is he wrong. I don't understand because: 1) "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion" and 2) Please note that he said "if" meaning that he was trying to be definitive. AS far as the OP... I think he raises a good question. So far only 1 has offered any real response to his question. While I don't have answers, other than what a couple of others contributed, that are related to recent "military action", I can recall from my Viet Nam era experience that many of the issues that Brandon indicated also applied to many of the GIs returning then, too. On top of that, we didn't enjoy the support of the populace that recent warriors do. IMHO, that was probably the biggest contributing factor for suicides by Viet Nam vets.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #22 May 15, 2011 QuoteYou spend a year or more over there fantasizing about how great things are at home, how you just can't wait to get back, and how awesome it's going to be. Even though my time over there was nowhere near what you guys had to put up with, I can understand your frustration. As I've stated before, my time was on a LPH off of Iran. We spent over 100 days sitting there waiting for the shit to hit. Near everyday was 24 hours at general quarters. Each day we were harassed by Iranian gunboats. It was stressful. Couldn't wait to get back to San Diego and my girlfriend. There were 3 suicides on the ship while there. One marine shot himself after a dear john letter. One cobra pilot took an overdose after one of the cobras crashed on the flight deck. We had to push the the helicopter over the side as it was burning with the two pilots still in it. And, one sailor slit his wrist and bled out after a dear john letter. My girlfriend decided she couldn't wait for me. Got a dear john from her. I was depressed about it, but didn't get so depressed that suicide looked good. I had a stack of bills to pay, thanks to her, but was happy to pay them just to be done with them. There was no fanfare when we returned. I had no girlfriend or family waiting on the pier for me. Spent several days just getting drunk. I turned 21 years old while over there. No party on my birthday. No one really seemed to even give a shit about what we did over there. There is no real record of our sacrifices. Life in the U.S. just went on without the many military men who were sitting off of a distant country waiting for war. No one seemed to even know we were there. But we knew and we were proud to have served. Thanks to a Facebook page for my old ship, a lot of us have been able to connect again. One of my old Navy buddies asked if anyone remembers the cobra we lost. No one as of yet has said anything. The thought that those pilots may had still been alive when we pushed it into the drink is still on my mind. That is one memory I wish I could forget. I really do understand your frustration. I felt the same way and often just wanted to beat the crap out of some civilian kid who was my age, but living a carefree life while others his age was protecting his freedom. I got over it. You will too, in time."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KidWicked 0 #23 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) I'm sorry, but you're the one who is wrong per that very definition that you linked. But even so, you did not read what I wrote closely.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fossg 0 #24 May 15, 2011 Well, heres my take on the subject. It is said the military is a reflection of the society it supports. In my civillian job I work as a probation officer with juveniles. In the last 10 years or so I have seen a dramatic spike in minors who have a suicidal ideation. It was so pronounced that we have had to take additional training in how to recognize these kids and refer help for them. On the military side of the house, on my last deployment we had to have ''suicide watch" on three seperate ocasions. This was done as a saftey measure before we could get the soldiers evacuated to Germany for proper treatment. There was no common thread with the cases. One had a wife who was leaving him, another was financial problems, the third I can't even begin to describe. The kid had more problems than bayer has asprin. This is a problem that we did not have to deal with in the past. ( I have been involved with the military since 75 in either active or reserve status) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Krip 2 #25 May 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Hi JB Didn't ask for your peace, and don't really need it. "It don't mean nothing" Are you a Vet? Do you know what a REMF is? Why are you concerned about the number of military suicides? Are you aware that 18 vets are commiting suicide every day?One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Krip 2 #15 May 15, 2011 I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the trollOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #16 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #17 May 15, 2011 QuoteI say you have no idea of the rules of war nor that Individual soldiers cannot be held as war criminals for being in a war that was declared by the US Government. The UK does not do this nor does any NATO ally, nor any other nation I know of. So read and learn, quite subscribing to websites as your sole source of information. Furthermore your words are falling upon deaf ears, people see through your veiled praise. But the substance of his point isn't about "the rules of war". He's suggesting, I think, that at some point you should have the better judgement to decide when you are being used as a tool.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #18 May 15, 2011 QuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #19 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #20 May 15, 2011 QuoteSoldiers are conditioned/programmed to live and deal with living in a wartime environment. They arent reconditioned/reprogrammed for normal society when they get back home. I think if they were to be trained to be regular civilians again the suicide rate would be lower. There is some level of truth to this but honestly from my experience over the last 11 years one of the biggest problems is that our military is no longer trained the way they should be. As people have been mentioning for years our military has become soft. Drill Sergeants are no longer allowed to intentionally induce stress in basic trainees, everybody has to feel special(black beret, CAB, etc.), nobody is toughened up anymore. I joined in '99 and even then I personally felt let down by the challenges that were presented to me in my initial training, I felt it should have been far more difficult. It is even worse now, and I see the results of our softer training every day when I walk around the post and see the way soldiers carry themselves. We need to quit trying to change the way we approach our young soldiers, quit coddling the younger generation and force them to either toughen up or move on. I have heard some of the senior leaders in the Army's Training and Doctrine Command(which oversees basic training) mention that recruits nowadays will quit if they are yelled at or stressed, so the training has been softened accordingly to accommodate their needs. I say toughen up or get the fuck out of my military. Every time I watch a unit rotate into theatre there is a rash of suicides in the first month. Soldiers so afraid of the big bad world that they pull the trigger on themselves within days of leaving home, and the only people to blame for it is the leaders in the military. There is so much desperation to keep recruiting numbers up that we have stopped looking for the most qualified, and lowered the standards. We as a society have become weak and the military is a direct reflection of that.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #21 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) Ryoder, two things - How is he wrong. I don't understand because: 1) "a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion" and 2) Please note that he said "if" meaning that he was trying to be definitive. AS far as the OP... I think he raises a good question. So far only 1 has offered any real response to his question. While I don't have answers, other than what a couple of others contributed, that are related to recent "military action", I can recall from my Viet Nam era experience that many of the issues that Brandon indicated also applied to many of the GIs returning then, too. On top of that, we didn't enjoy the support of the populace that recent warriors do. IMHO, that was probably the biggest contributing factor for suicides by Viet Nam vets.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #22 May 15, 2011 QuoteYou spend a year or more over there fantasizing about how great things are at home, how you just can't wait to get back, and how awesome it's going to be. Even though my time over there was nowhere near what you guys had to put up with, I can understand your frustration. As I've stated before, my time was on a LPH off of Iran. We spent over 100 days sitting there waiting for the shit to hit. Near everyday was 24 hours at general quarters. Each day we were harassed by Iranian gunboats. It was stressful. Couldn't wait to get back to San Diego and my girlfriend. There were 3 suicides on the ship while there. One marine shot himself after a dear john letter. One cobra pilot took an overdose after one of the cobras crashed on the flight deck. We had to push the the helicopter over the side as it was burning with the two pilots still in it. And, one sailor slit his wrist and bled out after a dear john letter. My girlfriend decided she couldn't wait for me. Got a dear john from her. I was depressed about it, but didn't get so depressed that suicide looked good. I had a stack of bills to pay, thanks to her, but was happy to pay them just to be done with them. There was no fanfare when we returned. I had no girlfriend or family waiting on the pier for me. Spent several days just getting drunk. I turned 21 years old while over there. No party on my birthday. No one really seemed to even give a shit about what we did over there. There is no real record of our sacrifices. Life in the U.S. just went on without the many military men who were sitting off of a distant country waiting for war. No one seemed to even know we were there. But we knew and we were proud to have served. Thanks to a Facebook page for my old ship, a lot of us have been able to connect again. One of my old Navy buddies asked if anyone remembers the cobra we lost. No one as of yet has said anything. The thought that those pilots may had still been alive when we pushed it into the drink is still on my mind. That is one memory I wish I could forget. I really do understand your frustration. I felt the same way and often just wanted to beat the crap out of some civilian kid who was my age, but living a carefree life while others his age was protecting his freedom. I got over it. You will too, in time."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #23 May 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll Amusingly, if the definition of a troll is one who contributes nothing to the discussion, then you are the troll. I think perhaps that you are unaware of it. Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) I'm sorry, but you're the one who is wrong per that very definition that you linked. But even so, you did not read what I wrote closely.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fossg 0 #24 May 15, 2011 Well, heres my take on the subject. It is said the military is a reflection of the society it supports. In my civillian job I work as a probation officer with juveniles. In the last 10 years or so I have seen a dramatic spike in minors who have a suicidal ideation. It was so pronounced that we have had to take additional training in how to recognize these kids and refer help for them. On the military side of the house, on my last deployment we had to have ''suicide watch" on three seperate ocasions. This was done as a saftey measure before we could get the soldiers evacuated to Germany for proper treatment. There was no common thread with the cases. One had a wife who was leaving him, another was financial problems, the third I can't even begin to describe. The kid had more problems than bayer has asprin. This is a problem that we did not have to deal with in the past. ( I have been involved with the military since 75 in either active or reserve status) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #25 May 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteI will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll I will not feed the troll LOL , Good for you! Do you have any worthwhile input to this conversation about suicide death rates among members of the military or did you respond to this thread soley to declare to the world that you won't feed imaginary charachters ? Well.., I wish you Peace and my Peace I give you. Jim B Hi JB Didn't ask for your peace, and don't really need it. "It don't mean nothing" Are you a Vet? Do you know what a REMF is? Why are you concerned about the number of military suicides? Are you aware that 18 vets are commiting suicide every day?One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
