kallend 2,026 #51 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote His words: "My point is that while no one might like what GS did, it might not be a crime." . So logically he's also implying that it might well be a crime. OK is this your fastest backpedal ever? Just following the logical train of thought you laid out. If there **might** not be a crime, there's a pretty good chance that there is a crime. Fraud comes to mind (and seems to have come to the minds of the Senate committee members too)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #52 May 17, 2011 So it's not a crime to put together a security you know is going to fail, and then convince less sophisticated investors to buy it, all the while betting with your own money that the security will fail? I think the crime is fraud. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #53 May 17, 2011 Quote I'm done. tried to bring some industry experience into this discussion to help people understand its not so cut and dry.. What's understandable is that you would defend your own industry's unethical practices.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #54 May 17, 2011 QuoteSo it's not a crime to put together a security you know is going to fail, and then convince less sophisticated investors to buy it, all the while betting with your own money that the security will fail? I think the crime is fraud. And don't forget that the ratings agencies are paid by the very companies whose securities they are rating. The whole financial services industry is corrupt from top to bottom and has bought the very regulators who are meant to curb its excesses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #55 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuote Isn't it remarkable that you can always find someone to defend the actions of those who made fortunes by bilking people out of their homes and life savings. It remarkable that you still insist im defending people. you are angry that no one is charged and im trying to explain to you why. thats it. WSJ reports today that BAC, MS and GS are all being investigated by the NY Attorney Gen. Perhaps, they will now. I'm sure if they can find evidence of a crime they will bring charges. My point all along has been that it might not have been a crime according to the laws and rules of the business. It not a crime to short a security against your firms buy rating. Never was and still isnt. you dont like it but its a fact. sorry. I'm done. tried to bring some industry experience into this discussion to help people understand its not so cut and dry. I though maybe i could shed some light as to why regulators have not charged anyone yet. People mention violence, guns and revenge. good bye. For the millions who lost so much..... NO JUSTICE.. NO PEACE for those crooks and thugs who stole from them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #56 May 17, 2011 Thats why the bad folks have lobbyists so they can influence the law of the land so the bad folks can hide behind the loop holes they snuck in. At a minimum it give them and their lawyers the ability to use plausable deniability. I think it time for a 4th populer lie.4)Trust me the goverment wouldn't allow us to committe fraud. Anyone want to come up with #5, 6, 7,.......... One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #57 May 17, 2011 QuoteSo it's not a crime to put together a security you know is going to fail, and then convince less sophisticated investors to buy it, all the while betting with your own money that the security will fail? I think the crime is fraud. the "less sophisticated" hedge fund manager. Please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #58 May 17, 2011 Quote I'm done. tried to bring some industry experience into this discussion to help people understand its not so cut and dry. I though maybe i could shed some light as to why regulators have not charged anyone yet. People mention violence, guns and revenge. good bye. well, you tried. But the people here don't want to be troubled with silly notions of specifics. Just more populist nashing of teeth, coupled with ignorance of the industry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #59 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuote I'm done. tried to bring some industry experience into this discussion to help people understand its not so cut and dry. I though maybe i could shed some light as to why regulators have not charged anyone yet. People mention violence, guns and revenge. good bye. well, you tried. But the people here don't want to be troubled with silly notions of specifics. Just more populist nashing of teeth, coupled with ignorance of the industry. The bipartisan Senate committee lists specifics. It is JUST possible that no crimes were committed. But I doubt it. I also doubt that anyone will be prosecuted given that the crooks have clearly bought and paid for the regulators.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #60 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm done. tried to bring some industry experience into this discussion to help people understand its not so cut and dry. I though maybe i could shed some light as to why regulators have not charged anyone yet. People mention violence, guns and revenge. good bye. well, you tried. But the people here don't want to be troubled with silly notions of specifics. Just more populist nashing of teeth, coupled with ignorance of the industry. The bipartisan Senate committee lists specifics. It is JUST possible that no crimes were committed. But I doubt it. I also doubt that anyone will be prosecuted given that the crooks have clearly bought and paid for the regulators. Hey that is ok.. that is just the way business is done according to our local pillars of the financial community we have advising all of us rubes here in SC. Let zem eat cake mon ami. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #61 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuoteno they will never be prosecuted. Bill Maher summed it up best. If you put just 6 of them in a federal prison and let them get a good ass-fucking, we would never have this problem again. we've been jailing Enron types for years, and yet execs continue to cook their books. Greed doesn't go away. But as as weekender is unsuccessfully trying to point out, few crimes were committed here. Gaming the system is not illegal, nor is fucking up or participating in a bubble. And one division of a large firm may act differently than another one...the better ones will coordinate as much as possible to save on transaction costs, but it's not a given. As you and weekender keep saying that few crimes were commited I'd be interested in each of your opinions of this article http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php Proffesor, Krip , I 'd like you guys to read it and give your opinions also. Sorry I don't know how to make it a direct link. For this thread you can probably skip the preliminaries and start reading at point 15. Fraud is a crime and if many of these mortgage backed securities were packages where more than one package or MBS contained the same mortgage , definately some people should be going to jail (IMO). Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #62 May 17, 2011 Quote As you and weekender keep saying that few crimes were commited I'd be interested in each of your opinions of this article http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php I stopped with the picture of naked bankers. Like the Rolling Stone "article," it's hard to take it seriously, and there's no reason it can be written in a serious manner, free of emotion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #63 May 17, 2011 Quote The bipartisan Senate committee lists specifics. It is JUST possible that no crimes were committed. But I doubt it. I also doubt that anyone will be prosecuted given that the crooks have clearly bought and paid for the regulators. So the bought and paid for Senate can be trusted with regards to this report, but not to enact any legislation? Can we say "dog and pony show?" The few specifics in your RS citation were lame. One big money manager beat another. Trading (not to be mistaken with investing) is a zero sum game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbrown 0 #64 May 17, 2011 QuoteQuote As you and weekender keep saying that few crimes were commited I'd be interested in each of your opinions of this article http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php I stopped with the picture of naked bankers. Like the Rolling Stone "article," it's hard to take it seriously, and there's no reason it can be written in a serious manner, free of emotion. LOL! I did say skip the preliminaries and start reading at point 15. I would be intrested in your opinion of the rest of the article. Peace, Jim B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
