rushmc 23
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DanG 1
QuoteThe problem you, and other non-believers, have is that you cannot grasp the subtleties of faith, beliefs and actions.
And the problem that you, and other pseudo-believers, have is that you want to pick and choose the teachings that fit your worldview. The Golden Rule is inconvenient, so you ignore it. Love thy neighbor is repulsive when your neighbor is gay or a Muslim, so you ignore it. Walk the walk, or stop talking the talk. There's nothing subtle about that at all.
- Dan G
rushmc 23
Quote[reply
QuoteCan we assume you're taking the "Waterboarding is not torture" stance ?
You dont have to assume, I will verify that
Unless you think we torture all of our SEALS I find it kind of hard to argue about
Foolishness. The SEALs KNOW they aren't going to be killed and that medical professionals are standing by to revive them should things get out of hand. Real subjects of water boarding have no such assurances.
The SEALs are training to deal with the physical aspects and pieces of the mental aspect. Not to mention they generally have excellent resistance to the feeling of drowning anyway as a result of their extensive water training.
This entire line of reasoning of yours is simply nonsense.
Your double standard is pissing on your shoe
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
DanG 1
QuoteYou just happen to be wrong
Well reasoned reply, as always.
Can you explain why I am wrong?
- Dan G
rushmc 23
QuoteHuh? I may wish to learn how what is used -- waterboarding? And if the purpose isn't to gain information, then WTF is it for?QuoteYou may wish to learn a bit more about how this is used
There is no attempt to gain info during this process. It is not the point
Wendy P.
As I said
you have no idea what you are talking about
We do not even attempt to get info during a waterboarding session.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
wmw999 2,446
Then why do you waterboard?
And how do you know so much?
Wendy P.
And how do you know so much?
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteYou just happen to be wrong
Well reasoned reply, as always.
Can you explain why I am wrong?
It is very black and white
Either it is torture, or it is not
The situation can not change that
But you are like John Kerry I guess
You will vote for something before you will vote against it
PS. I do not believe we would torture our own during a training
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteAnd if the purpose isn't to gain information, then WTF is it for?
Wendy P.
the purpose isn't to get information but to get the person you are torturing to confess to what you are telling them to confess to...
(i'm not a witch - yes you are. stop burning me - when you confess you are a witch)
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
DanG 1
So a boxer punching another boxer in the face during a bout is assault and battery?
If the situation can't change the nature of an action, I guess you'll have to agree that it is.
- Dan G
If the situation can't change the nature of an action, I guess you'll have to agree that it is.
- Dan G
rushmc 23
QuoteThen why do you waterboard?
And how do you know so much?
Wendy P.
Actually there was a very interesting interview I listened to who explained that those who do the questioning know that actionable info will really never be gained during the process. The questions asked are those the interrogators know the answer too
What they are after is cooperation.
He went on to explain that different cultures view being broken differently culture to culture.
In this case they are asked to hold out as long as they can, but once they give in, they are forgiven. Since they (in this case Muslims) know this, once they give in, they talk much more freely. He stated we are still getting new info today
He stated they need to learn the cultures of those they deal with to know how to bet use enhanced interrogation techs.
I am waiting for a book on this
Should be very interesting
In any event
I don’t think we really know what we think we know
This guy threw a whole new perspective on the tactic
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, you are saying there times when it is torture and there are times it is not?
Although this has been explained countless time, I'll put it down one more time for the record.
Waterboarding is torture not only because of the pain it causes, but because the victim really believes that they are about to drown. It's not torture in SERE school because the soldiers know that they are safe from lasting bodily harm.
I fully realize that you are incapable of understanding that very simple distinction, but I write in down again because reasonable people may be reading this.
I understand very well thank you
You just happen to be wrong
I could agree with you, and then we'd both be wrong.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteSo a boxer punching another boxer in the face during a bout is assault and battery?
If the situation can't change the nature of an action, I guess you'll have to agree that it is.
I can do this too
If we put bamboo under an enemies finger nails it is torture, but if it is in training it is not?
You see, your example does not work because the premise you debate from is false
Waterboarding, while very unpleasant, is not torture. If it was, we would not do it to our own
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo, you are saying there times when it is torture and there are times it is not?
Although this has been explained countless time, I'll put it down one more time for the record.
Waterboarding is torture not only because of the pain it causes, but because the victim really believes that they are about to drown. It's not torture in SERE school because the soldiers know that they are safe from lasting bodily harm.
I fully realize that you are incapable of understanding that very simple distinction, but I write in down again because reasonable people may be reading this.
I understand very well thank you
You just happen to be wrong
I could agree with you, and then we'd both be wrong.
In either case however, YOU would still be the professional
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteMcCain is just as invested in having none of the information having come from torture, as Cheney is invested in having it come from torture.
And given how old any torture-generated information is, it'd be a little bit like trying to figure out which person a particular molecule of pee in the swimming pool came from.
Wendy P.
Nail on head!
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
Quotethose who do the questioning know that actionable info will really never be gained during the process. The questions asked are those the interrogators know the answer too
What they are after is cooperation.
like, we know you're a witch - now cooperate and confess...
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
DanG 1
QuoteIf we put bamboo under an enemies finger nails it is torture, but if it is in training it is not?
Um no, it's not. It's training. If the soldier signed up for it and knows that he can quit at any time, it is not torture.
My analogy stands. You have no reply because you know that the context of an action matters. To claim otherwise is completely ridiculous.
- Dan G
rushmc 23
QuoteQuotethose who do the questioning know that actionable info will really never be gained during the process. The questions asked are those the interrogators know the answer too
What they are after is cooperation.
like, we know you're a witch - now cooperate and confess...
Is this what alternet told you?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteIf we put bamboo under an enemies finger nails it is torture, but if it is in training it is not?
Um no, it's not. It's training. If the soldier signed up for it and knows that he can quit at any time, it is not torture.
My analogy stands. You have no reply because you know that the context of an action matters. To claim otherwise is completely ridiculous.
No, your analogy is a pile of monkey shit
I replied very well thank you
You just cant handle the answer given to you
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteQuoteQuotethose who do the questioning know that actionable info will really never be gained during the process. The questions asked are those the interrogators know the answer too
What they are after is cooperation.
like, we know you're a witch - now cooperate and confess...
Is this what alternet told you?
even the most stupid can work out waterboarding is torture...
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
I understand very well thank you
You just happen to be wrong
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
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