The problem isn't so much the tax code...

[airdvr 210]

...as it is a matter of enforcement.

This month a small businessman came to me and wanted to build a home. The bank says not enough income. IN my conversations with this businessman I know he makes alot more than he shows on his tax return. It's a common endeavor amongst small businesses. I used to offer credit lines to small businesses. Same scenario. If you've ever run a small business you know how to work the tax code to your advantage. You'd be amazed at how many personal purchases get paid out of the company coffers.

I think enforcement of the current tax code would go along way towards solving the debt problem.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wayneflorida 0]

I guess we need to waterboard every business owner at least once every five years.

[marks2065 0]

Quote

...as it is a matter of enforcement.

This month a small businessman came to me and wanted to build a home. The bank says not enough income. IN my conversations with this businessman I know he makes alot more than he shows on his tax return. It's a common endeavor amongst small businesses. I used to offer credit lines to small businesses. Same scenario. If you've ever run a small business you know how to work the tax code to your advantage. You'd be amazed at how many personal purchases get paid out of the company coffers.

I think enforcement of the current tax code would go along way towards solving the debt problem.

how about we make ALL americans pay at least a little and nobody gets money from the gov.

[GQ_jumper 4]

how about we make ALL americans pay at least a little and nobody gets money from the gov. ***

Second that one.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[diverborg 0]

Any opinions on the "Fair Tax". I think the numbers they've crunched would be a 23% sales tax across the board, and no income tax.

Seems it would solve a lot of problems on people whining about certain people carrying all the tax burden.

Only drawbacks I see, is I wonder how much a tax like that will curb consumer spending and in effect the 23% wouldn't be an accurate number. Then I would be afraid if it was raised to compensate, then you can create a snowball affect in locking up the economy. Perhaps that would be an illegitmate fear seeing that everyone will have a whole bunch more $$ in their pockets to spend when their is no income tax.

And of course states and cities will need to find other tax revenues unless they want to add an additional 7% to that 23%. But then a little higher state income tax rate instead would be no big deal if you're not paying any federal income tax.

Thoughts?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Any opinions on the "Fair Tax". I think the numbers they've crunched would be a 23% sales tax across the board, and no income tax.

Seems it would solve a lot of problems on people whining about certain people carrying all the tax burden.

Only drawbacks I see, is I wonder how much a tax like that will curb consumer spending and in effect the 23% wouldn't be an accurate number. Then I would be afraid if it was raised to compensate, then you can create a snowball affect in locking up the economy. Perhaps that would be an illegitmate fear seeing that everyone will have a whole bunch more $$ in their pockets to spend when their is no income tax.

And of course states and cities will need to find other tax revenues unless they want to add an additional 7% to that 23%. But then a little higher state income tax rate instead would be no big deal if you're not paying any federal income tax.

Thoughts?

Pretty regressive.

The percentages paid (of net worth or income) would be worse than they are now. Poor would pay huge percentages and rich would pay small.

Rich people don't buy that much more clothes or food or cars. Yes, more and yes, more expensive, but I doubt that the Gates household buys several million times the stuff that the "Smith" family does.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,991]

>how about we make ALL americans pay at least a little and nobody gets
>money from the gov.

OK, provided you pay for the prisons.

[diverborg 0]

Quote

Quote

Any opinions on the "Fair Tax". I think the numbers they've crunched would be a 23% sales tax across the board, and no income tax.

Seems it would solve a lot of problems on people whining about certain people carrying all the tax burden.

Only drawbacks I see, is I wonder how much a tax like that will curb consumer spending and in effect the 23% wouldn't be an accurate number. Then I would be afraid if it was raised to compensate, then you can create a snowball affect in locking up the economy. Perhaps that would be an illegitmate fear seeing that everyone will have a whole bunch more $$ in their pockets to spend when their is no income tax.

And of course states and cities will need to find other tax revenues unless they want to add an additional 7% to that 23%. But then a little higher state income tax rate instead would be no big deal if you're not paying any federal income tax.

Thoughts?

Pretty regressive.

The percentages paid (of net worth or income) would be worse than they are now. Poor would pay huge percentages and rich would pay small.

Rich people don't buy that much more clothes or food or cars. Yes, more and yes, more expensive, but I doubt that the Gates household buys several million times the stuff that the "Smith" family does.

In my experience, most people spend relative to their income. Keep in mind sales tax isn't just "stuff". Its services as well which include everything rich people use as well to even create business. Its not like they can write off their expenses as "business" related like they can now and work the system to their advantage and dodge taxes. Everything they pay including expanding their business or empire is taxed.

Also the term "regressive" is a bit up to interpretation. Do you think a family with 3 kids in the public school system and a combined income of 40,000 should have to pay any taxes? There's a good chance now they wouldn't be. I'm of the opinion that EVERYBODY needs to pay at least something in taxes. Whether the fair tax is the way to do that, I don't really know. But as of now there's a huge portion of our population that doesn't pay taxes.

And again its all relative to what they spend, so I don't necessarily see it as regressive or favoring the wealthy. In fact as a middle class guy that doesn't buy tons of junk, I kinda like the sound of it. I just don't know how realistic of a collection method it would really be. Could turn out fantastically, or could really hurt tax collection if everybody sees it as a reason to quit spending.

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Pretty regressive.

The percentages paid (of net worth or income) would be worse than they are now. Poor would pay huge percentages and rich would pay small.

Rich people don't buy that much more clothes or food or cars. Yes, more and yes, more expensive, but I doubt that the Gates household buys several million times the stuff that the "Smith" family does.

the economists that thought up the fair tax mitigated the regresiveness by what they call the prebate. The prebate is an amount of money paid to a family each month to pay them for the estimated tax they will pay for necessary items for their family.

This does 2 things. It eliminates the regresiveness, and at the same time increases the cost of admistrating the tax program. They should just not tax necessary items (no tax on non-prepared foods, and a few tax-free weekends a year for clothing and home electronics).

The problem with implementing FT is that it would never be done all at once. It would be done as a VAT. Increase the VAT, decrease the income tax. But unless the income tax was decreased ahead of the pace of the increase of the VAT, then it would suppress spending and stunt economic growth.

--
Rob

[wsd 0]

Quote

how about we make ALL americans pay at least a little and nobody gets money from the gov. ***

Second that one.

I would say no government money except the VA compensation paid for injuries incurred during service to our country. Either in training or combat.

Schooling to help those who have become disabled due to these injuries is also off limits, it is not welfare but a contractual obligation

[wmw999 2,446]

So what do we do under that system about people with no family and severe non-service disabilities? They exist.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

So what do we do under that system about people with no family and severe non-service disabilities? They exist.

Wendy P.

Details details... Don't bother the anonymous trolls with details.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.