rushmc 23 #1 May 26, 2011 They hate getting caught in their lies Go firgure http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/25/freedom-information-laws-harass-scientists"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 May 26, 2011 QuoteThey hate getting caught in their lies Go firgure http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/25/freedom-information-laws-harass-scientists So let me get this right.... the deniers wish to bury the researchers in paperwork... to slow down the researchersw from finding the data that will prove the deniers have their heads firmly implanted up the asses of the likes of the Koch Brothers and YOU think this is a good thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #3 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteThey hate getting caught in their lies Go firgure http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/25/freedom-information-laws-harass-scientists So let me get this right.... the deniers wish to bury the researchers in paperwork... to slow down the researchersw from finding the data that will prove the deniers have their heads firmly implanted up the asses of the likes of the Koch Brothers and YOU think this is a good thing? Yeah, okay.... Remind me again how the Koch brothers have outspent the BILLIONS from fed.gov for climate research.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #4 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey hate getting caught in their lies Go firgure http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/25/freedom-information-laws-harass-scientists So let me get this right.... the deniers wish to bury the researchers in paperwork... to slow down the researchersw from finding the data that will prove the deniers have their heads firmly implanted up the asses of the likes of the Koch Brothers and YOU think this is a good thing? Yeah, okay.... Remind me again how the Koch brothers have outspent the BILLIONS from fed.gov for climate research. Yeah, okay.... Remind me again how the Koch brothers have outspent the BILLIONS from fed.gov for climate research. for the extra large size butt plugs for their slavish followers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 May 26, 2011 So it's the norm, then? No proof, just accusations. Good to know. Regarding the FOI requests, I leave you with the words of Phil Jones of Climategate fame (emphasis mine): "At 09:41 AM 2/2/2005, Phil Jones wrote: Mike, I presume congratulations are in order - so congrats etc ! Just sent loads of station data to Scott. Make sure he documents everything better this time ! And don’t leave stuff lying around on ftp sites - you never know who is trawling them. The two MMs have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I’ll delete the file rather than send to anyone. Does your similar act in the US force you to respond to enquiries within 20 days? - our does ! The UK works on precedents, so the first request will test it.We also have a data protection act, which I will hide behind. Tom Wigley has sent me a worried email when he heard about it - thought people could ask him for his model code. He has retired officially from UEA so he can hide behind that. IPR should be relevant here, but I can see me getting into an argument with someone at UEA who’ll say we must adhere to it ! " Poor baby, having to actually show his work - well, what remains after the data mysteriously disappeared, that is.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsd 0 #6 May 26, 2011 Simply put, if you are going to publish a study you better be prepared to furnish your data and notes in order to substantiate your claims. It is what is required of any of us so why should these scientists get a free pass? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #7 May 26, 2011 QuoteIt is what is required of any of us so why should these scientists get a free pass? Is it? Did you read the article linked in the OP? Perhaps you can tell us where you work and how often you are required to respond to such requests?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KidWicked 0 #8 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt is what is required of any of us so why should these scientists get a free pass? Is it? Did you read the article linked in the OP? Perhaps you can tell us where you work and how often you are required to respond to such requests? Don't hold your breath. wsd is all about making claims and then subsequently not substantiating them.Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #9 May 26, 2011 QuoteSimply put, if you are going to publish a study you better be prepared to furnish your data and notes in order to substantiate your claims. It is what is required of any of us so why should these scientists get a free pass? To state the obvious in an already-dumb thread: the claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. That being said, I'm moving on. The simpleton-esque way the article linked in the OP is being spun in this thread is just painful. Advance response to Marc and Mike: Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 May 26, 2011 Quotethe claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. So all the scientists have to do is post all their papers on a web site, which anyone can access online, without them having to respond to each and every individual request. Simple, open, impossible to criticize. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #11 May 26, 2011 QuoteSo all the scientists have to do is post all their papers on a web site, which anyone can access online, without them having to respond to each and every individual request. Simple, open, impossible to criticize. Wrong.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #12 May 26, 2011 Quote Quote Simply put, if you are going to publish a study you better be prepared to furnish your data and notes in order to substantiate your claims. It is what is required of any of us so why should these scientists get a free pass? To state the obvious in an already-dumb thread: the claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. That being said, I'm moving on. The simpleton-esque way the article linked in the OP is being spun in this thread is just painful. Advance response to Marc and Mike: Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. They can whine about this all they want They are under the same laws as the rest. They dont like it ? Tough Live with it. They can CLAIM anything they like Fact is, they do not seem to want their data looked at. They just want all to be blind followers Like AGW advocates As for you? You get more childish every day when you disagree with people Funny actually"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuotethe claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. So all the scientists have to do is post all their papers on a web site, which anyone can access online, without them having to respond to each and every individual request. Simple, open, impossible to criticize. Uh, no. That's the disingenuous spin of it. As I just said. You see - and stop me if you've heard this before - the claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #14 May 26, 2011 Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #15 May 26, 2011 QuoteOh, yeah? Well, same to you. See!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #16 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotethe claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. So all the scientists have to do is post all their papers on a web site, which anyone can access online, without them having to respond to each and every individual request. Simple, open, impossible to criticize. Uh, no. That's the disingenuous spin of it. As I just said. You see - and stop me if you've heard this before - the claim is not that scientists need not substantiate their claims or that they want a free pass. It is that people are deliberately inundating scientists with FOI requests less for the purpose of actually getting the information, and more as a targeted tactic to harass the researchers and bog down their time and resources. You got it right It is a claim Nothing more They have the leave me along attitude and just listen to what I say is true And they dont like it the way it is Poor babies fits them perfectly If they have a case. Sue for harrasment Otherwise STFU and follow the law"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #17 May 26, 2011 Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #18 May 26, 2011 Quote Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #19 May 26, 2011 Quote Oh, yeah? Well, same to you. Oh,. and thanks for telling me I am right!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #20 May 26, 2011 QuoteThey are under the same laws as the rest. The rest of the select group of people that the FOI laws apply to. QuoteThey dont like it ? Tough Live with it. Did you even read the article you linked to? Sir Paul Nurse (note, not a climate scientist, but a biologist), President of the Royal Society, the body which exists to represent the scientific community to the government, is asking for a review of the current Act because it may leave researchers in contraversial fields (note, not just climate science) needing to waste a considerable portion of their time responding to request after frivolous request. What exactly is it that you think Dr Nurse is doing wrong?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #21 May 26, 2011 QuoteIf they have a case. Sue for harrasment Otherwise STFU and follow the law The issue is that the current law may be opening a legal gateway for requests that are actually nothing more than deliberate harrasment and timewasting. Is it your considered opinion that imperfect laws should never be questioned?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #22 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf they have a case. Sue for harrasment Otherwise STFU and follow the law The issue is that the current law may be opening a legal gateway for requests that are actually nothing more than deliberate harrasment and timewasting. Is it your considered opinion that imperfect laws should never be questioned? Nope I did not say that at all But if they got a case then show it All this article said what they think they are being harrased Until then they can stop their crying"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #23 May 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteThey are under the same laws as the rest. The rest of the select group of people that the FOI laws apply to. QuoteThey dont like it ? Tough Live with it. Did you even read the article you linked to? Sir Paul Nurse (note, not a climate scientist, but a biologist), President of the Royal Society, the body which exists to represent the scientific community to the government, is asking for a review of the current Act because it may leave researchers in contraversial fields (note, not just climate science) needing to waste a considerable portion of their time responding to request after frivolous request. What exactly is it that you think Dr Nurse is doing wrong? He is whining His opinion is that the requests are frivolous. A review is good Ask for that As I said before the rest is just whining There are harrasment laws too, correct? If so, those could be used, could they not?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #24 May 26, 2011 A) "Nurse's comments follow the launch of a major Royal Society study into how scientists' work can be made more open and better used to inform policy in society. The review – expected to be published next year – will examine ways of improving access to scientific data and research papers and how "digital media offer a powerful means for the public to interrogate, question and re-analyse scientific priorities, evidence and conclusions"." B) What exactly does "Don't like it (the law)? Tough Live with it." and "STFU and follow the law" mean if it doesn't mean don't question the law?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 May 26, 2011 QuoteA) "Nurse's comments follow the launch of a major Royal Society study into how scientists' work can be made more open and better used to inform policy in society. The review – expected to be published next year – will examine ways of improving access to scientific data and research papers and how "digital media offer a powerful means for the public to interrogate, question and re-analyse scientific priorities, evidence and conclusions"."This is a good thing but this does not mean the process is flawed today. He thinks it is B) What exactly does "Don't like it (the law)? Tough Live with it." and "STFU and follow the law" mean if it doesn't mean don't question the law? Is he or other people above the law? Do you think people should get to pick who needs to follow the law and who does not ? Or should all be treated fairly under the law?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
