High School Student Stands Up Against Prayer at Public School and Is Ostracized, Demeaned and Threatened

[virgin-burner 1]

i think this kid should be burned at the stake - really, i think they should put him on a cross, put some gasoline over him and light the fucker up. how DARE he demand what's constitutional, in a - or so it should be - segragate school system!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[mnealtx 0]

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yep, TK 'said' it therefore it must not be true.

Didn't say that - try again.

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your use of semantics is nothing short of amazing.

Irony score - incalculable

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change the meaning of stuff to suit your narrow belief structure.

Ibid

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Perhaps we could spend some time arguing about the definition of the word 'the' or some other useless legal tripe.

Sounds about your speed, given your confusion between "policy" and "prayer".

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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i think this kid should be burned at the stake - really, i think they should put him on a cross, put some gasoline over him and light the fucker up. how DARE he demand what's constitutional, in a - or so it should be - segragate school system!

*yawn*

He made his (legal) demand the school acted on it (again, legally) by removing the scheduled prayer from the agenda. Issue solved.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DiverMike 5]

Did you see the video? The prayer was not removed. Those in charge let the prayer happen. It was an excellent lesson of civil disobedience to high school graduates.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[stevebabin 0]

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Did you see the video? The prayer was not removed. Those in charge let the prayer happen. It was an excellent lesson of civil disobedience to high school graduates.

Mnealtx's mind is made up. Don't confuse him with facts.
What happened was a simple ploy to circumvent the intent of the law.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[mnealtx 0]

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Did you see the video?

Did you read the article? The issue at hand was the school's scheduling of a prayer as part of the graduation.

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The prayer was not removed.

According to the school and the article, it was.

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Those in charge let the prayer happen.

Not a constitutional issue, sorry - the Supremes have held that students CAN pray.

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It was an excellent lesson of civil disobedience to high school graduates.

Twaddle.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Mnealtx's mind is made up. Don't confuse him with facts.

Find me some, Skippy - all I've seen so far is ZOMG PRAYERS!!!!

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What happened was a simple ploy to circumvent the intent of the law.

Supreme Court says you're wrong.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 2]

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useless legal tripe.

Not so fast. There happens to be a legal standard for tripe:

http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/tripe-with-milk-19611410

[DiverMike 5]

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The prayer was not removed . . .
According to the school and the article, it was.

That makes sense. Why believe your own eyes by watching the video of the event when you have a newspaper article from which to quote. Saying that it is removed but allowing it to happen is not removing it from the event. It is not at all disimiliar to "I'm not going to cum in your mouth"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaD8iQFaw7I

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

The school did remove it from the program. The student took it upon herself to do it anyways. How should the school have handled it at that point?

[DiverMike 5]

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Not so fast. There happens to be a legal standard for tripe: http://cfr.vlex.com/...e-with-milk-19611410

I usually find your posts to be well researched and bullet proof, but this post doesn't address the legal standard for tripe. It just mentions that tripe with milk must contain at least 65% tripe and 10% milk. It doesn't indicate the legal standard for tripe.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[david3 0]

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The school did remove it from the program. The student took it upon herself to do it anyways. How should the school have handled it at that point?

As long as the school then allowed every Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan or whoever else might like to lead a prayer do so, then no problem.

[DiverMike 5]

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The student took it upon herself to do it anyways. How should the school have handled it at that point?

The student starts giving thanks to a god at 1:20 in the video and asked people to bow their heads a 1:58. There was plenty of time to tell her to stop, if they were so inclined. They obviously were not.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

And what if she didn't stop?

[david3 0]

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And what if she didn't stop?

The point is they had no intention of stopping her. That is a stamp of approval. If a student decided to get up and sing his favorite song they would have stopped him. They could use the same method to stop her from leading the prayer, whatever that method may be.

[mnealtx 0]

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The prayer was not removed . . .
According to the school and the article, it was.

That makes sense. Why believe your own eyes by watching the video of the event when you have a newspaper article from which to quote.

Because I can't access video from over here.

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Saying that it is removed but allowing it to happen is not removing it from the event.

If you're going to argue on this stuff at least have the intellectual honesty to read the decisions and try to understand them. Santa Fe rightly struck down the school's *policy* regarding prayers to open the football games, not prayer in and of itself.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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The student took it upon herself to do it anyways. How should the school have handled it at that point?

The student starts giving thanks to a god at 1:20 in the video and asked people to bow their heads a 1:58. There was plenty of time to tell her to stop, if they were so inclined. They obviously were not.

Santa Fe: "The Religion Clauses of the First Amendment prevent the government from making any law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. By no means do these commands impose a prohibition on all religious activity in our public schools."

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The point is they had no intention of stopping her.

Which is an opinion you have made up for this argument. There is absolutely no evidence to support (or deny) that position.

If there was any evidence to support yur opinion, I am relatively confident the same student would have them in court.

[mnealtx 0]

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And what if she didn't stop?

The point is they had no intention of stopping her. That is a stamp of approval. If a student decided to get up and sing his favorite song they would have stopped him. They could use the same method to stop her from leading the prayer, whatever that method may be.

Wrong.

Santa Fe, referencing Rosenberger: "We have held, for example, that an individual's contribution to a government-created forum was not government speech."

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[david3 0]

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The point is they had no intention of stopping her.

Which is an opinion you have made up for this argument. There is absolutely no evidence to support (or deny) that position.

If there was any evidence to support yur opinion, I am relatively confident the same student would have them in court.

I’m not talking about court. I’m talking about you and me. Do you think the school wanted to stop the prayer? Do you think the school would have found a way to stop any other off the program display by a student?

[david3 0]

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And what if she didn't stop?

The point is they had no intention of stopping her. That is a stamp of approval. If a student decided to get up and sing his favorite song they would have stopped him. They could use the same method to stop her from leading the prayer, whatever that method may be.

Wrong.

Santa Fe, referencing Rosenberger: "We have held, for example, that an individual's contribution to a government-created forum was not government speech."

I'm talking about equal treatment of the students. She was allowed by the school to do something I believe the school would have prohibited other students from doing. I don’t believe the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer from another student.

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[mnealtx 0]

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I'm talking about equal treatment of the students. She was allowed by the school to do something I believe the school would have prohibited other students from doing. I don’t believe the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer from another student.

.

You're allowed your own opinion - that doesn't make it fact.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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I don’t believe the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer from another student..

I disagree - school officials aren't sitting there with a censor button just waiting for stuff to come up. Mostly they are people that want whatever event to go smoothly. Mostly they recognize that kids are headstrong and clumsy. Every time some kid takes the podium and spews out idiotic stuff they think is important, based on their narrow world views, most of the audience will hold their nose and take it, and be glad the kid had guts to at least try (or be quietly embarassed for them - depending on the adults, the kid and the topic). Some validictorian wants to spit out some Wiccan chatter, likely she'd do it and a few suburban types will squirm a bit, but most of the sheep will not even know it happened other than to chatter about it the next day.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[david3 0]

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I'm talking about equal treatment of the students. She was allowed by the school to do something I believe the school would have prohibited other students from doing. I don’t believe the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer from another student.

.

You're allowed your own opinion - that doesn't make it fact.

Yes it is an opinion. They get expressed here from time to time, or hadn’t you noticed.

Do you think the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer? I’m just asking your opinion.

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[david3 0]

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I don’t believe the school would have allowed a Wiccan prayer from another student..

I disagree - school officials aren't sitting there with a censor button just waiting for stuff to come up. Mostly they are people that want whatever event to go smoothly. Mostly they recognize that kids are headstrong and clumsy. Every time some kid takes the podium and spews out idiotic stuff they think is important, based on their narrow world views, most of the audience will hold their nose and take it, and be glad the kid had guts to at least try (or be quietly embarassed for them - depending on the adults, the kid and the topic). Some validictorian wants to spit out some Wiccan chatter, likely she'd do it and a few suburban types will squirm a bit, but most of the sheep will not even know it happened other than to chatter about it the next day.

The most recent graduations I have been to were for my nieces. One 7 years ago and the other 4 years ago. I was amazed at the tight reins they kept on the program. Blurting something out is one thing. Taking the time to deliver the prayer in question is another. I think the school turned a blind eye to it.

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