The Myth of Big-Time Gun Trafficking

[quade 4]

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It certainly is if the only "facts" he chooses to write about are pro-gun.

If the only thing some climate researchers write about is global warming, does that automatically mean that they are biased?

If scientists are actually doing science, they will report the good with the bad. For instance, you can go to NASA's climate research web page and see they very plainly lay out the ups and downs of data points. The data speaks for itself in terms of an overall downward trend.

Kleck doesn't do that. He picks and chooses to write about other people's work that only supports the position he made 20 years ago.

There is a huge difference.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wsd 0]

So are you anti gun or pro gun?

Make up your mind and please let the rest of us know so you won't be misleading anyone.

[wsd 0]

Legally purchased M16's are not coming from here either as they would cost in the range of 20k if they were not sold to a law enforcement agency.

If they were sold to a private person that would have occurred before 1986. There would have been a tax stamp and federal background investigation.

How do you know those were M16's? Can you tell from a picture, I cannot and I know what they look like and how to tell the difference both inside and out.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If scientists are actually doing science, they will report the good with the bad. For instance, you can go to NASA's climate research web page and see they very plainly lay out the ups and downs of data points. The data speaks for itself in terms of an overall downward trend.

are you laughing when you write this bullshit, or do you really believe it?

It was only about a year and a half ago that the British server got hacked and a lot of embarrassing email was pulled out, showing exactly how open the warming scientists are about contrary data or viewpoints.

As for you - you're as openminded on the gun debate as Kellerman. That man was a hoot - never saw a suicide he couldn't misattribute as a gun death.

[quade 4]

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It was only about a year and a half ago that the British server got hacked and a lot of embarrassing email was pulled out, showing exactly how open the warming scientists are about contrary data or viewpoints.

You do realize those claims were later found to be bogus and there was no proof of any impropriety; right?

Maybe not. It's possible the sources of news you listen to don't report both sides of a story; only the side that supports their world view.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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It's a biased article, by a biased author in a biased publication.

I'm not reframing anything. I'm making a statement of fact.

No, you're saying your OPINION and thinking it's fact. Kleck started out as an anti, until he started researching the issue. He won the Hindelacher Award from the American Society of Criminology in 1993 for his book Point Blank.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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It's a biased article, by a biased author in a biased publication.
I'm not reframing anything. I'm making a statement of fact.

No, you're saying your OPINION and thinking it's fact. Kleck started out as an anti, until he started researching the issue. He won the Hindelacher Award from the American Society of Criminology in 1993 for his book Point Blank.

And has only written pro-gun material for a long time now. That's a fact.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

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It's a biased article, by a biased author in a biased publication.
I'm not reframing anything. I'm making a statement of fact.

No, you're saying your OPINION and thinking it's fact. Kleck started out as an anti, until he started researching the issue. He won the Hindelacher Award from the American Society of Criminology in 1993 for his book Point Blank.

And has only written pro-gun material for a long time now. That's a fact.

So prove him wrong.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[skybill 22]

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Wall Street Journal:

The Myth of Big-Time Gun Trafficking

In recent decades, advocates of gun control have taken their cause to court, bringing lawsuits that charge the gun industry with negligence because of how it distributes firearms. Large-scale traffickers, these suits claim, purchase guns in big batches from corrupt or irresponsible dealers, especially those operating in states with weak gun control laws. These guns are then moved to places with stricter laws, where they are sold, supposedly at high markups, to criminal buyers.

Advocates argue that gun manufacturers and distributors are aware of these illegal practices and could stop them, if they chose to, by refusing to supply guns to the problematic dealers.

This theory has been embraced by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and even some scholars. They argue that disrupting trafficking operations can have a substantial impact on rates of criminal gun possession and gun violence.

Unfortunately, there is little evidence to support this set of interconnected claims...

Full story: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704904604576333443343499926.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Hi JR,
If ya' havn't already, go check out Mike Vanderboeghs' http://www.sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com and Dave Codreas' http://www.waronguns.blogspot.com> and read about Operation Gunwalker!! Trouble is the MSM wont touch it because they're n bed with bama. He (bama) sure as he2xl endorsed it and the only diference between this and H2Ogate from Tricky Dick Daze is nobody got killed in H2Ogate!! Not so this time!! Latte' lippin' lefties need not respond.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[kallend 2,026]

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So are you anti gun or pro gun?

.

Are you an anonymous troll?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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You're talking about the past.
"Point Blank. Guns and Violence in America" was written in 1991.
Dr. Marvin E. Wolfgang died in 1998
Tell me what Kleck has been doing for the last 10 years?
Can you cite a single recent article by Kleck that isn't pro-gun?

Here you go. All I had to do was type in "Gary Kleck" in Google, and it popped up as the very first entry:
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/faculty-gary-kleck.php

Notice that his list of publications includes many things unrelated to guns. His specialty is criminology, which includes much more than just guns. And since many of his research articles are not about guns, they are therefore not pro-gun.

You have been proven wrong.

Quade, you usually know when to walk away from a bad argument that you've made. I'm surprised that you keep hanging in there on this one...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Ok
Then what was in the article that was factully incorrect?

Or
Where is the flawed reaoning based on the facts or information presented

It is impossible to establish any fact from the article. He is quoting his own supposed research, but without the research presented you can't really establish fact.

There is some precedent of this type of behaviour in big business. At least one tobacco company has been fined for actively supporting the trafficking of their product.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Notice that his list of publications includes many things unrelated to guns. His specialty is criminology, which includes much more than just guns. And since many of his research articles are not about guns, they are therefore not pro-gun.

I'm pretty sure the argument relates to published articles related to guns.

[rushmc 23]

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If scientists are actually doing science, they will report the good with the bad. For instance, you can go to NASA's climate research web page and see they very plainly lay out the ups and downs of data points. The data speaks for itself in terms of an overall downward trend.

are you laughing when you write this bullshit, or do you really believe it?

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I am laughing

He needs to put down the shovel (or a back hoe in this case) and back away from the hole

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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So are you anti gun or pro gun?

.

Are you an anonymous troll?

as opposed to a non anonyomous one???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Ok
Then what was in the article that was factully incorrect?

Or
Where is the flawed reaoning based on the facts or information presented

It is impossible to establish any fact from the article. He is quoting his own supposed research, but without the research presented you can't really establish fact.

There is some precedent of this type of behaviour in big business. At least one tobacco company has been fined for actively supporting the trafficking of their product.

and now you are going to walk into the hole quade has dug already?

Better take some water with you. Your going to be in this deep one a while

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Tell me what Kleck has been doing for the last 10 years?
Can you cite a single recent article by Kleck that isn't pro-gun?

Here you go. All I had to do was type in "Gary Kleck" in Google, and it popped up as the very first entry:
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/p/faculty-gary-kleck.php

Notice that his list of publications includes many things unrelated to guns. His specialty is criminology, which includes much more than just guns. And since many of his research articles are not about guns, they are therefore not pro-gun.

You have been proven wrong.

Quade, you usually know when to walk away from a bad argument that you've made. I'm surprised that you keep hanging in there on this one...

ouch - this will be a hard one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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It was only about a year and a half ago that the British server got hacked and a lot of embarrassing email was pulled out, showing exactly how open the warming scientists are about contrary data or viewpoints.

You do realize those claims were later found to be bogus and there was no proof of any impropriety; right?

Maybe not. It's possible the sources of news you listen to don't report both sides of a story; only the side that supports their world view.

I've seen claims that the stuff isn't as damning as some would claim. I haven't seen anything to show that the emails were faked. Feel free to provide such evidence. (But after you address John's proof that Kleck writes about more than just guns)

I'm confident in knowing that hordes of scientists are prone to ignoring inconvenient facts that don't support their cause. You can try to write them off as "non scientists," but the reality of man is less convenient.

[grimmie 186]

No one could run 'em like Ollie North.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Ok
Then what was in the article that was factully incorrect?

Or
Where is the flawed reaoning based on the facts or information presented

It is impossible to establish any fact from the article. He is quoting his own supposed research, but without the research presented you can't really establish fact.

There is some precedent of this type of behaviour in big business. At least one tobacco company has been fined for actively supporting the trafficking of their product.

and now you are going to walk into the hole quade has dug already?

Better take some water with you. Your going to be in this deep one a while

Cant post to the content, AGAIN, can you!

[Bertt 0]

You're right. They could have been Bushmasters or any other M-16 clone, but the grenade launcher is pretty distinctive, even in a picture. We're talking about drug gangs that make many millions of dollars every year selling drugs and spend millions on transportation, weapons, personnel, etc. They get guns from a variety of sources. Trying to stop them by cracking down on sales from a gun shop is like trying to prevent tetanus by outlawing rusty nails.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

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Ok
Then what was in the article that was factully incorrect?

Or
Where is the flawed reaoning based on the facts or information presented

It is impossible to establish any fact from the article. He is quoting his own supposed research, but without the research presented you can't really establish fact.

There is some precedent of this type of behaviour in big business. At least one tobacco company has been fined for actively supporting the trafficking of their product.

and now you are going to walk into the hole quade has dug already?

Better take some water with you. Your going to be in this deep one a while

Cant post to the content, AGAIN, can you!

If yours had any you would be correct

But since it is void of any

You are incorrect

One thing I will give you

At least YOU posted that you believe that the article has no fact because he is refering to his research. But then you GENERALIZE that this is what big business does.

Nice buzz word

Please define it, (big business) for us so we can understand where you are coming from or what you really mean please

This is not big tobacco and linking one business to another is a slimy tactic anyway

Hope you took along some refreshment

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I didn't generalize, I stated there was a precedent.

There are a number of parallels between tobacco and arms industry. I really don't feel a need to spell that all out for you. If you cannot understand that on even such a basic level, the rest of the conversation will go nowhere.

[rushmc 23]

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I didn't generalize, I stated there was a precedent.

There are a number of parallels between tobacco and arms industry. I really don't feel a need to spell that all out for you. If you cannot understand that on even such a basic level, the rest of the conversation will go nowhere.

No specifics
And I understand
You do to

You got nothing

Link or swim

You are going swimming

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

you are not making sense.

You want a link to the tobacco precedent, or you want a link to a definition of big business.

I know your spelling is shit, and I know you have some kind of excuse for that, but it makes your posts impossible to understand at times.

I am assuming you have heard of google?