Homosexuality

[pajarito 0]

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Easy there is no god. So when I die nothing will happen I will simply be dead. There isn't any evidence of life after death.

My conscience is just fine.

Have you told lies? Did you know it was wrong when you told them? Did you do it anyway? It's unbelievable how hard it is to get people to answer simple questions of the conscience. Especially, when they supposedly don't believe any of it anyway. On the other hand, I suspect that you are like the rest of us and know right from wrong. In that case, you are aware of the consequences for your actions, right? I just think it's good to at least face death aware and not be surprised.

[okalb 104]

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Have you told lies? Did you know it was wrong when you told them? Did you do it anyway? It's unbelievable how hard it is to get people to answer simple questions of the conscience. Especially, when they supposedly don't believe any of it anyway. On the other hand, I suspect that you are like the rest of us and know right from wrong. In that case, you are aware of the consequences for your actions, right? I just think it's good to at least face death aware and not be surprised.

I have told lies, sometimes it was right sometimes it was wrong. In what way does the fact that it is right or wrong have to do with god or what happens when I die? I understand what you are getting at but it makes no sense. Are you trying to say in a silly roundabout way that without belief in god there are no morals or no right/wrong?

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[beowulf 1]

Are you asking for my confession?!

Right and wrong is determined by the society you live in and so are the consequences. It's different from place to place and also changes over time.

Where is your evidence of any consequence after death? Where is your evidence of life after death?

[pajarito 0]

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You may think your conscience is only be activated by self-interest, but for some of us feeling of guilt or altruism can be triggered for non-selfish reasons.

Actually, I don't think your conscience is activated by self-interest. I think it first must be "activated" by God. Then we either act on it or not. It can be a very valuable tool which might eventually save your life, if you listen to it. God places the knowledge of right and wrong within us all. However, that doesn't necessarily lead to a changed person/nature or that person making the right decisions. Your conscience is kind of like a smoke detector. Some people have suppressed the truth for so long that they have become desensitized and things trouble them less and less. They become more tolerant of deviant behavior, enjoy it, and participate in it more and more. Their battery is getting weaker and weaker as time goes on. Others either have a dead battery or they have removed it altogether and their conscience no longer informs them of danger. They just wallow in their immorality throughout their lives and die (thinking there are no consequences for their thoughts/actions). On the other hand, the smoke detector/conscience should inform you of danger (right/wrong) but you still must have the will to listen to it and take action. Get out of the burning house. Don’t just sit in it and die.

[pajarito 0]

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I have told lies, sometimes it was right sometimes it was wrong. In what way does the fact that it is right or wrong have to do with god or what happens when I die? I understand what you are getting at but it makes no sense. Are you trying to say in a silly roundabout way that without belief in god there are no morals or no right/wrong?

No. Your belief or disbelief in God has nothing to do with the reality of the existence of God and His standard of right and wrong. I know you don't believe there are consequences for your actions but I am just making you aware of what God says. Scripture says that "All liars will have their part in the lake of fire" and "lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."

[pajarito 0]

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Are you asking for my confession?!

Right and wrong is determined by the society you live in and so are the consequences. It's different from place to place and also changes over time.

So is that a yes with regard to my question?

[beowulf 1]

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God places the knowledge of right and wrong within us all.

Right and wrong is very subjective. It depends on how you were raised, society you were raised in and the time period.

By looking at history, even the history of Christianity, there is no consistent right and wrong.

[jakee 1,489]

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Actually, I don't think your conscience is activated by self-interest...

Oh really?

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They just wallow in their immorality throughout their lives and die (thinking there are no consequences for their thoughts/actions). On the other hand, the smoke detector/conscience should inform you of danger (right/wrong) but you still must have the will to listen to it and take action. Get out of the burning house. Don’t just sit in it and die.

See. Self interest. You appear to believe that the only value of conscience is to move you away from doing things that will have a negative impact on your quality of death.

Good for the sake of good, or genuine concern for others don't even enter into your arguments. The only concern you mention are the consequences your actions will have for you.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

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Are you asking for my confession?!

Right and wrong is determined by the society you live in and so are the consequences. It's different from place to place and also changes over time.

So is that a yes with regard to my question?

I am under no obligation to confess anything to you.

Where is your evidence of any deity? Where is your evidence of life after death? Where is your evidence of the consequences you talk about?

[devildog 0]

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Where is your evidence of life after death?

D'souza has a good book on the subject, actually.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[pajarito 0]

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God places the knowledge of right and wrong within us all.

Right and wrong is very subjective. It depends on how you were raised, society you were raised in and the time period.

By looking at history, even the history of Christianity, there is no consistent right and wrong.

God's standard of right/wrong does not change. It is based on his perfect nature. Man's standards, on the other hand, constantly do. You will not be judged based on the standards of men, however. You will be judged by God's standard.

[beowulf 1]

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God places the knowledge of right and wrong within us all.

Right and wrong is very subjective. It depends on how you were raised, society you were raised in and the time period.

By looking at history, even the history of Christianity, there is no consistent right and wrong.

God's standard of right/wrong does not change. It is based on his perfect nature. Man's standards, on the other hand, constantly do. You will not be judged based on the standards of men, however. You will be judged by God's standard.

Oh yeah, Prove it.

[pajarito 0]

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Oh yeah, Prove it.

I don't need to defend God. He doesn't require it. I think deep down you know. If not so much now, I think you will the closer you come to the end of this life. The problem is, you have no idea how long that will be. You could die on your next jump. Me too.

[jakee 1,489]

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I think deep down you know.

I think deep down you know Muhammed is waiting for you, and that dude is not happy. I think the older you get, the more worried that's going to make you, even if you can't admit it to yourself.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

Why should I believe, if you can't even defend your belief in the existence of your god?

I don't see any evidence of any consequences of not believing in Christianity or any other religion.

I don't see any reason to believe there are any deitys or any life after death.

You make claims that there is some grand consequence to not believing in Christianity, yet no evidence to support your claims.

[pajarito 0]

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I am under no obligation to confess anything to you.

Where is your evidence of any deity? Where is your evidence of life after death? Where is your evidence of the consequences you talk about?

I agree. You are under no obligation whatsoever to confess anything to me. Only to your God. However, you'd think it would be easy for someone who denies God and believes right/wrong is subjective to just say it. It should be easy to say "I don't believe in God." "I am a liar." "I know it's wrong." "I have done it anyway."

[beowulf 1]

This isn't about me or what I have or haven't done. It's about this mythology that you and millions of people believe in and attempt to push on to others. You are like those snake oil salesmen of years ago peddaling your claims of grand rewards for those who believe and dire consequences for those that don't. Yet you have nothing to back up your claims.

[pajarito 0]

Giant's Causeway of Northern Ireland

[pajarito 0]

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This isn't about me or what I have or haven't done. It's about this mythology that you and millions of people believe in and attempt to push on to others. You are like those snake oil salesmen of years ago peddaling your claims of grand rewards for those who believe and dire consequences for those that don't. Yet you have nothing to back up your claims.

I'm really just appealing to your conscience.

[billvon 2,991]

>God's standard of right/wrong does not change.

Sure it does. There was a time when killing homosexuals was not only OK, it was ordered by the Bible itself. Nowadays Christians abhor such killings. (With the potential exception of the Westboro Baptists, but fortunately even devoted Christians think they're nuts.)

There are dozens of examples like that. As we evolve as a society, our moral standards (slavery, women's rights, the rights of the disabled etc) evolve as well, and religious types then conflate those morals with God's - since no one wants a God who really does want to kill the gays.

[beowulf 1]

The conscience is different from person to person, society to society and varies over time. Many things that were considered morally right in 1800's in the USA are not today.

My sense of right and wrong is probably different then yours.

It is more reasonable to consider the conscience to be something that evolves with society.

[pajarito 0]

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>God's standard of right/wrong does not change.

Sure it does. There was a time when killing homosexuals was not only OK, it was ordered by the Bible itself. Nowadays Christians abhor such killings. (With the potential exception of the Westboro Baptists, but fortunately even devoted Christians think they're nuts.)

There are dozens of examples like that. As we evolve as a society, our moral standards (slavery, women's rights, the rights of the disabled etc) evolve as well, and religious types then conflate those morals with God's - since no one wants a God who really does want to kill the gays.

I think you know that I am referring to the moral standard of God, based on His righteous nature, and not man's.

[pajarito 0]

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It is more reasonable to consider the conscience to be something that evolves with society.

Maybe easier to consider...but not reasonable.

[beowulf 1]

Through out the Bible there are slaves. So God must consider it morally right to have slaves? Right?

[beowulf 1]

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It is more reasonable to consider the conscience to be something that evolves with society.

Maybe easier to consider...but not reasonable.

No I meant reasonable rather then just assuming that your interpretation of the Bible is correct.

I am sure there are many Christians who would argue that your interpretation of what Gods laws are is wrong.

The Bible is often vague and is very much open to interpretation. So much so that there is no real consensus on what it all really means. It's evident in the number of different Christian sects.