Wow the Democrats are spineless!

[shah269 0]

Wow the Democrats are spineless!
I'm a Democrat due to my views on social issues and the economy. But by god are these guys and gals the most spineless bunch of people you have ever seen or what! It's amazing the level of ass kicking these spineless dorks are taking from the Republicans.
They have no spine and no vision nor any will.

Sure the Republicans have become the party of the NO vote but it's amazing how stupidly spineless and gutless the Democrats have become.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[muff528 3]

Quote

Wow the Democrats are spineless!
I'm a Democrat due to my views on social issues and the economy. But by god are these guys and gals the most spineless bunch of people you have ever seen or what! It's amazing the level of ass kicking these spineless dorks are taking from the Republicans.
They have no spine and no vision nor any will.

Sure the Republicans have become the party of the NO vote but it's amazing how stupidly spineless and gutless the Democrats have become.

What are you doing over here in SC?!?. Get back to the Bonfire ...where you belong!
(

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Wow the Democrats are spineless!
I'm a Democrat due to my views on social issues and the economy. But by god are these guys and gals the most spineless bunch of people you have ever seen or what! It's amazing the level of ass kicking these spineless dorks are taking from the Republicans.
They have no spine and no vision nor any will.

Sure the Republicans have become the party of the NO vote but it's amazing how stupidly spineless and gutless the Democrats have become.

Hmmm

Just tricksters IMO

They offered no budget for how long now?

Why?

So they have something to blame the R's for

They have a vision alright. A very focused vision. And this is do what ever it takes to get re-elected. No time for the hard stuff. Might get you voted out of office

But now I need to figure out if the R's do anything different

Hmmm

Not really

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Great idea, let's raise taxes on those who create jobs so they will have les money to expand their companies. I had planned on hiring at least 2 more people this year but I'm waiting to see how much my taxes are going up. No just business taxes but also Capital Gains taxes. So in the meantime, those 2 people can just sit on unemployment and those who are working can continue to pay for them. I don't HAVE to expand my business, we are doing fine. Of course I would like to but not until more of my customers are working and can afford our products. This economy is never going to recover until more people are working and paying taxes.

[shah269 0]

Well let's be honest with ourselves for one second.
How much taxes did GE pay this year?
How much did big oil pay?

Business tax is very similar to personal taxes. In an odd bit of logic, the more you make the less % you pay due to various tools that become avaliable to you at a given price point.


The system is broken but it's simply amazing how wimpy the Dems have gotten and how affraid of the Tea Party the Republicans have become.

One one side the Dems will bend over backwards, on the other the Republicans are worried about a group of under educated nuts.

It's nuts!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Gravitymaster 0]

The problem is the Democrats and the press are selling you this tax hike by using the evil faceless corporations as a boogyman to stir your emotions. The reality is that those most affected are going to be the small business people who are the ones that create most of the jobs in this country.

[shah269 0]

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The reality is that those most affected are going to be the small business people who are the ones that create most of the jobs in this country.

I agree. And I feel that all businesses should be taxed at the same rate. Why whould GE pay nothing and you pay taxes?
Maybe a flat coorperate tax?

But that wold be too easy right? Not enough BS to get the people to vote?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[mnealtx 0]

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Why whould GE pay nothing and you pay taxes?

Speak of the misinformation boogeyman and there he is.

GE *did* pay taxes in 2010. Not as much as they ordinarily would have, due to the losses at GE Capitol, but they *did* pay taxes.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

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How much taxes did GE pay this year?

I don't know. But they apparently paid about $3.2 billion in excess taxes. There was a big to-do over GE getting a big tax refund meaning they paid no taxes. This is just like a person who gets a tax refund for paying too much.

"I got $3,000 back in my taxes last year! YAY!" '
"So you paid no taxes and got $3,000? You should give it all back!"

That makes no sense, now does it? Unless, of course, it's being spun and further information isn't given. And let's also not look at the rules regarding Net Operating Loss that allows a company to prorate those losses into the future. GE lost billions in the financial crash, didn't it?

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How much did big oil pay?

Unsure. But loads. In fact, Big Oil is the tax man for everybody out there. You know for every gallon of gasoline sold in California, $.65 is taken out in taxes to federal, state and county governments? If I buy 10 gallons of gasoline, Big Oil collect $6.50 and distributes it to the governments.

The funny thing is that the tax laws are set up in such a confusing way. The more specific a law is, the more loopholes it creates. If I want to make a tax law that directs a 60% income tax rate on all lawyers living in fresno with greater than 1000 posts on dropzone.com, then I may skirt it by movin five miles to Clovis. And the people would shout "UNFAIR! HE SHOULD PAY MORE IN TAXES!" And I'll say, "Up yours. I am breaking no law."


I know very little about tax law, but I know that the whole Exxon and overseas taxes are managed by "transfer pricing." For a brief primer, take a look at this IRS publication.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-apa/482_regs.pdf

By "brief primer" I mean, "Set aside a month and read this." It provides examples and guidance for how international movement of these things is accomplished. Key point? If one wants Big Oil to pay more in US taxes, open up the oil industry to drilling in the US.

Another point? Ever notice how much money companies put in places with low taxes? The Bahamas? Turks and Caicos? Yep. Companies tend to go where taxe are lower. I reckon under the present arguments, Bahamas got more tax money from Exxon than did the United States.

"But lawrocket. Bahamas dont' tax hardly at all and the US taxes heavily." Yep. That's how it actually works.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jclalor 12]

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Great idea, let's raise taxes on those who create jobs so they will have les money to expand their companies. I had planned on hiring at least 2 more people this year but I'm waiting to see how much my taxes are going up. No just business taxes but also Capital Gains taxes. So in the meantime, those 2 people can just sit on unemployment and those who are working can continue to pay for them. I don't HAVE to expand my business, we are doing fine. Of course I would like to but not until more of my customers are working and can afford our products. This economy is never going to recover until more people are working and paying taxes.

The personal tax rate is now the lowest it has been in in 60 years. when you hear the corporate tax rate is one of highest in the world, it's bullshit. After all the loopholes and write offs, our corporations are some of the lowest taxed in the world.

Personal income tax for 98% of us is lower under Obama than it was for Bush, but you would never know it listening to the right.

The overwhelming majority of Americans ( left and right)are in favor of taxing the top 2% of Americans more, but once again, the right will never tell you this.

Look at what the tax rates were under Clinton and then under Bush, then look at what the economy was doing.

[mnealtx 0]

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Look at what the tax rates were under Clinton and then under Bush, then look at what the economy was doing.

You mean like the economy roaring back when the capital gains tax was reduced in 1997, or the way that the tech bubble bursting and the aftereffects of 9/11 are never factored in when comparing Bush to Clinton?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Well let's be honest with ourselves for one second.
How much taxes did GE pay this year?
How much did big oil pay?

Business tax is very similar to personal taxes. In an odd bit of logic, the more you make the less % you pay due to various tools that become avaliable to you at a given price point.


The system is broken but it's simply amazing how wimpy the Dems have gotten and how affraid of the Tea Party the Republicans have become.

One one side the Dems will bend over backwards, on the other the Republicans are worried about a group of under educated nuts.

It's nuts!

GE is Obama's buddy. What did you expect?

Big oil payed big time. They are not an Obama buddy

And you might want to conside this

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/07/11/obama_dems_skirt_the_issue_on_tax_hikes/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

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Great idea, let's raise taxes on those who create jobs so they will have les money to expand their companies. I had planned on hiring at least 2 more people this year but I'm waiting to see how much my taxes are going up. No just business taxes but also Capital Gains taxes. So in the meantime, those 2 people can just sit on unemployment and those who are working can continue to pay for them. I don't HAVE to expand my business, we are doing fine. Of course I would like to but not until more of my customers are working and can afford our products. This economy is never going to recover until more people are working and paying taxes.

The personal tax rate is now the lowest it has been in in 60 years. when you hear the corporate tax rate is one of highest in the world, it's bullshit. After all the loopholes and write offs, our corporations are some of the lowest taxed in the world.

Personal income tax for 98% of us is lower under Obama than it was for Bush, but you would never know it listening to the right.

The overwhelming majority of Americans ( left and right)are in favor of taxing the top 2% of Americans more, but once again, the right will never tell you this.

Look at what the tax rates were under Clinton and then under Bush, then look at what the economy was doing.

the tax rates are not lower, the income is lower causing a reduction in tax revenue. Last I heard congress extended the bush tax cuts, they didn't lower them.

As far as people that want to raise taxes on the rich, what percentage of them even paid taxes? why would they want to not tax the rich and pay some themselves? to many are getting a free ride now and that needs to end. I don't mind paying some tax but I think NOBODY should pay no taxes. to many freeloaders in this country now.

[Gravitymaster 0]

What you fail to comprehend is that in this economy our profit margins are at an all time low. People aren't spending money as readily. Now you want to hit us with even more taxes?

[normiss 801]

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for every gallon of gasoline sold in California, $.65 is taken out paid by the consumer in taxes to federal

FIFY

[Bolas 5]

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Why whould GE pay nothing and you pay taxes?

Speak of the misinformation boogeyman and there he is.

GE *did* pay taxes in 2010. Not as much as they ordinarily would have, due to the losses at GE Capitol, but they *did* pay taxes.

They probably offset some additional taxes by making charitable donations, like most companies.

Those bastards. How dare they give money direct to programs helping people without running it through the gov't first.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

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for every gallon of gasoline sold in California, $.65 is taken out paid by the consumer in taxes to federal

FIFY

Exactly. Businesses don't pay taxes: their customers pay them.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[mirage62 0]

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when you hear the corporate tax rate is one of highest in the world, it's bullshit. After all the loopholes and write offs, our corporations are some of the lowest taxed in the world.

Ok for all you people that are so smart please be specific here. I am a sub chapter S. Please be real clear what "loopholes and write off" are you talking about??

And please don't throw out that we are all a bunch of thefts that just lie on our taxes.

Any one?

Waiting for my great big loophole

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[lawrocket 3]

One of my BIGGEST problems is that there was a fiscal commission appointed by the President to offer ideas on solutions to the present debt problems and LOOMING debt crisis. This commission released it's report and recommendation on December 1, 2010 - the "REPORT OF THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND REFORM."

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf

This was a bi-partisan effort. And it was to the point. And did not hold punches. Incidentally there were some things stated to the public.

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We believe neither party can fix this problem on its own, and both parties have a responsibility to do their part. The American people are a long way ahead of the political system in recognizing that now is the time to act. We believe that far from penalizing their leaders for making the tough choices, Americans will punish politicians for backing down – and well they should.
In the weeks and months to come, countless advocacy groups and special interests will try mightily through expensive, dramatic, and heart-wrenching media assaults to exempt themselves from shared sacrifice and common purpose.

p 7-8.

They explained their two-part mission: to bring the budget into primary balance (balance excluding interest costs) in 2015, and to meaningfully improve the long-run fiscal outlook. (p. 12).

The continued with a plan:

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plan has six major components:
1) Discretionary Spending Cuts: Enact tough discretionary spending caps to force budget discipline in Congress. Include enforcement mechanisms to give the limits real teeth. Make significant cuts in both security and non-security spending by cutting low-priority programs and streamlining government operations. Offer over $50 billion in immediate cuts to lead by example, and provide $200 billion in illustrative 2015 savings.
2) Comprehensive Tax Reform: Sharply reduce rates, broaden the base, simplify the tax code, and reduce the deficit by reducing the many “tax expenditures”—another name for spending through the tax code. Reform corporate taxes to make America more competitive, and cap revenue to avoid excessive taxation.
3) Health Care Cost Containment: Replace the phantom savings from scheduled Medicare reimbursement cuts that will never materialize and from a new long-term care program that is unsustainable with real, common-sense reforms to physician payments, cost-sharing, malpractice law, prescription drug costs, government-subsidized medical education, and other sources. Institute additional long-term measures to bring down spending growth.
4) Mandatory Savings: Cut agriculture subsidies and modernize military and civil service retirement systems, while reforming student loan programs and putting the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation on a sustainable path.
5) Social Security Reforms to Ensure Long-Term Solvency and Reduce Poverty: Ensure sustainable solvency for the next 75 years while reducing poverty among seniors. Reform Social Security for its own sake, and not for deficit reduction.
6) Process Changes: Reform the budget process to ensure the debt remains on a stable path, spending stays under control, inflation is measured accurately, and taxpayer dollars go where they belong

Now - this is the President's OWN commission. Incidentally, there are things that it suggested including capping discretionary spending, capping revenues (not a chance in HELL that the government would EVER cap revenues).

Part of it involves things like "FULLY FUND THE TRANSPORTATION TRUST FUND INSTEAD OF RELYING ON DEFICIT SPENDING." The commission calls for an end to raiding the transportation fund (set up for roads) to spend for other matters and even calls to increase fuel taxes to pay for roads and infrastructure - and ONLY for roads and infrastructure. It also calls for reducing the federal workforce through attrition and eliminating ALL earmarks.

It also calls for tax reform.

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In the quarter century since the last comprehensive tax reform, Washington has riddled the system with countless tax expenditures, which are simply spending by another name. These tax earmarks – amounting to $1.1 trillion a year of spending in the tax code – not only increase the deficit, but cause tax rates to be too high. Instead of promoting economic growth and competitiveness, our current code drives up health care costs and provides special treatment to special interests. The code presents individuals and businesses with perverse economic incentives instead of a level playing field.

- p. 29

Regarding corporate taxes:

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The corporate income tax, meanwhile, hurts America’s ability to compete. On the one hand, statutory rates in the U.S. are significantly higher than the average for industrialized countries (even as revenue collection is low), and our method of taxing foreign income is outside the norm. The U.S. is one of the only industrialized countries with a hybrid system of taxing active foreign-source income. The current system puts U.S. corporations at a competitive disadvantage against their foreign competitors. A territorial tax system should be adopted to help put the U.S. system in line with other countries, leveling the playing field.

- p. 29

They propose that the tax rate should be lowered for all, but spending in the tax code stopped and loopholes closed. (What are the Democrats suggesting? INCREASING the tax rate on corporations, which the President's own commission said causes LONG TERM HARM).

But - it seeks to maintain a progressive tax system while lowering the total tax burden to make th eUS a good place to start a business.

It includes MASSIVE reform of Medicare. (Which the Democrats have insisted is unacceptable). (It even discusses how those who get in early on these government programs get low cost, large benefits. They didn't call it a Ponzi scheme but they certainly alluded to it)

The commission abhors the current policy of reckless massive spending and tax increases and calls for tax reductions to spur growth. (Democrats have said tax cuts are bad bad bad).

Pensions? The commission said that federal pensions are out of line with the private sector and need reform. (Democrats and unions say hell no). It also wants to reduce Ag spending (something that the GOP resists).

Social Security? The Social Security fudn will be exhausted by 2037. They propose indexing Social security, making people work longer, etc. AND - GET EMPLOYEES TO START SAVING ON THEIR OWN FOR RETIREMENT. IN other words, tell people that they have to take care of themselves.


The report is loaded and should be read. I mean, this is the President's OWN commission that is makin these recommendations. The problem is that these recommendations have meant political suicide in the past. Fortunately, there is a new backlash and a growing group of voters that WANT this sort of austerity and lowered tax rate to be created.

My problem is that I don't see the Democratic Party looking to do ANYTHING to follow the implementations (though I see the President actually cracking a bit).

Meanwhile, we have all these people saying "corporations and wealthy should pay more" when the President's commission says that such is self-defeating and that they should be paying LESS in order to stimulate gorwth and employment. Heck, the last couple of years suggests that the policy's of taxing and spending DO NOT WORK.

I'll bet that fewer than 1 in a thousand Americans have even scanned the report. WHat I like about the report is that it says that it doesn't care about politics and that special interests will do their best to be exempt from austerity. The report says they should go fuck themselves.

Everyone. I like it. And what it says it uncomfortable and spreads pain to everybody. No more corporate welfare but lower tax rates and keep the Code simple. No more seeking to increase revenues - keep revenues high enough but not so high they sop up American prouctivity. And for goodness sakes slash spending slowly and incrementally but keep on going.

None of these are ideas that Keynesians like. Keynes has failed.

And your initial post indicates a lack of understanding that is absent when bipartisans take political winners and losers out of it.

According to the report, yes, Democrats are spineless.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[labrys 0]

Note to self.... Seems to be popular to pretend to be gay before being homophobic. Pretend to be a racial minority before being a racist. Pretend to be generous before acting selfish.

Pretend to be sensitive while you treat people who actually have feelings like dolls in your self centered diarama?

Meh.

Kinda can't lose, huh?

Even a protest smells like self serving bullshit.

Owned by Remi #?

[mirage62 0]

NOBODY??? come on you chicken shit motherfuckers TELL ME HOW I GET TO FUCK THE SYSTEM I want to - in fact I will....as long as it is legal. I've got it made so help me out. Tell me how legally I get to screw the little guy?

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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NOBODY??? come on you chicken shit motherfuckers TELL ME HOW I GET TO FUCK THE SYSTEM I want to - in fact I will....as long as it is legal. I've got it made so help me out. Tell me how legally I get to screw the little guy?

First you donate a shitload of money to both parties and all the candidates that have a chance of winning.

Then you spend another shitload of money on lobbyists to tell the congresscritters that you own what to pass as laws.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jclalor 12]

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the tax rates are not lower, the income is lower causing a reduction in tax revenue. Last I heard congress extended the bush tax cuts, they didn't lower them.

You heard wrong, Obama lowered the payroll tax by 2% for 2010, saving the average family a thousand dollars a year. The tax bill for Americans is lower under Obama than it was under Bush. Obama is trying to extend this tax cut for 2011.

Keep hearing what you only want to hear.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/01/obama-team-touts-payroll-tax-cuts/1

[mnealtx 0]

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the tax rates are not lower, the income is lower causing a reduction in tax revenue. Last I heard congress extended the bush tax cuts, they didn't lower them.

You heard wrong, Obama lowered the payroll tax by 2% for 2010, saving the average family a thousand dollars a year. The tax bill for Americans is lower under Obama than it was under Bush. Obama is trying to extend this tax cut for 2011.

Keep hearing what you only want to hear.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/01/obama-team-touts-payroll-tax-cuts/1

Speaking of hearing only what you want to hear, you *do* realize that the Bush tax cuts were regarding INCOME tax and not Social Security tax, and that it's not *supposed* to be counted as general revenue, right?

Regardless, your info is wrong. The Social Security Tax rate was lowered for 2011, not 2010 - I haven't heard anything about an extension for 2012.

Great job shooting down Shah's argument, though.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jclalor 12]

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the tax rates are not lower, the income is lower causing a reduction in tax revenue. Last I heard congress extended the bush tax cuts, they didn't lower them.

You heard wrong, Obama lowered the payroll tax by 2% for 2010, saving the average family a thousand dollars a year. The tax bill for Americans is lower under Obama than it was under Bush. Obama is trying to extend this tax cut for 2011.

Keep hearing what you only want to hear.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/01/obama-team-touts-payroll-tax-cuts/1

Quote

Speaking of hearing only what you want to hear, you *do* realize that the Bush tax cuts were regarding INCOME tax and not Social Security tax, right?

Regardless, your info is wrong. The Social Security Tax rate was lowered for 2011, not 2010 - I haven't heard anything about an extension for 2012.

Great job shooting down Shah's argument, though.

Your right, It was for 2011 and he is trying to extend it. Social security is a tax, we now pay less then we did under Bush and so we pay lower taxes under Obama. We did get an 800 dollar per per couple personal income tax credit in 2009 and 2010, once again, lower taxes under Obama.

I agree with Shaw, the Dems are fucking spineless. Obama is a great disappointment on many levels and he needs to grow a pair.

The Republicans however have exactly zero incentive to see the economy get better. That cunt Bachmann just said that a higher unemployment rate would really help her become the next President.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/08/992474/-Michele-Bachmann:-I-hope-higher-unemployment-helps-my-campaign

What he did do in 2009 and 2010 was this:


$116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[28]
$70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[28]
$15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
$14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
$6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[40]
$4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
$4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
$4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
$1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.