religious ponderings

[stevebabin 0]

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No. No atheist claims to know everything.

Every Atheist claims to know everything about religion, otherwise they would not be so certain there is no Deity of 'ANY' description.

How else can you come to that conclusion?

As an agnostic I am not entirely certain about anything and don't feel the need to be.

You appear to feel the need to be certain.

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I am sure you do not believe in a flat Earth. Yet you cannot prove by yourself to 100% certainty that the planet is round (although surely you can get good secondhand info that shows it likely is.)

If you claim that the Earth is round, does that mean you claim to have every bit of information on its geology, orbit, mass, atmospheric density etc? If you do NOT have that information, by your reasoning, don't you have to admit that the Earth might be flat?

I believe the earth is spherical due to the images that have been shown to me, there are also a great number of other examples to suggest the earth is a sphere, in a solar system orbiting the sun.

There are also as many unknown possibilities that can change all that.

A fish in water seems larger than it is in air. And a different shape depending on the angle…

What appears is not always tangible; a hologram is a good example of this.

What we don’t know effects what we believe we know, infinitely.

Quantum physics (along with other non mainstream subjects) will throw a spanner in the works of what most people consider 'normal thinking' or what we perceive as reality.


Only a closed minded individual will eliminate the possibility of something unknown to exist...

Atheists fall into that definition.

So you think there is a chance that the earth might be flat. Got it.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[DanJohnson 0]

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No. No atheist claims to know everything.

Every Atheist claims to know everything about religion, otherwise they would not be so certain there is no Deity of 'ANY' description.

How else can you come to that conclusion?

As an agnostic I am not entirely certain about anything and don't feel the need to be.

You appear to feel the need to be certain.

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I am sure you do not believe in a flat Earth. Yet you cannot prove by yourself to 100% certainty that the planet is round (although surely you can get good secondhand info that shows it likely is.)

If you claim that the Earth is round, does that mean you claim to have every bit of information on its geology, orbit, mass, atmospheric density etc? If you do NOT have that information, by your reasoning, don't you have to admit that the Earth might be flat?

I believe the earth is spherical due to the images that have been shown to me, there are also a great number of other examples to suggest the earth is a sphere, in a solar system orbiting the sun.

There are also as many unknown possibilities that can change all that.

A fish in water seems larger than it is in air. And a different shape depending on the angle…

What appears is not always tangible; a hologram is a good example of this.

What we don’t know effects what we believe we know, infinitely.

Quantum physics (along with other non mainstream subjects) will throw a spanner in the works of what most people consider 'normal thinking' or what we perceive as reality.


Only a closed minded individual will eliminate the possibility of something unknown to exist...

Atheists fall into that definition.

So you think there is a chance that the earth might be flat. Got it.

Every photo / video I've seen show the earth only having two dimensions.
Flat Stanley meet Flat Steve. Flat Steve, Flat Stanley.

[devildog 0]

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No. No atheist claims to know everything.

Every Atheist claims to know everything about religion, otherwise they would not be so certain there is no Deity of 'ANY' description.

How else can you come to that conclusion?

As an agnostic I am not entirely certain about anything and don't feel the need to be.

You appear to feel the need to be certain.

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I am sure you do not believe in a flat Earth. Yet you cannot prove by yourself to 100% certainty that the planet is round (although surely you can get good secondhand info that shows it likely is.)

If you claim that the Earth is round, does that mean you claim to have every bit of information on its geology, orbit, mass, atmospheric density etc? If you do NOT have that information, by your reasoning, don't you have to admit that the Earth might be flat?

I believe the earth is spherical due to the images that have been shown to me, there are also a great number of other examples to suggest the earth is a sphere, in a solar system orbiting the sun.

There are also as many unknown possibilities that can change all that.

A fish in water seems larger than it is in air. And a different shape depending on the angle…

What appears is not always tangible; a hologram is a good example of this.

What we don’t know effects what we believe we know, infinitely.

Quantum physics (along with other non mainstream subjects) will throw a spanner in the works of what most people consider 'normal thinking' or what we perceive as reality.


Only a closed minded individual will eliminate the possibility of something unknown to exist...

Atheists fall into that definition.

So you think there is a chance that the earth might be flat. Got it.

Every photo / video I've seen show the earth only having two dimensions.
Flat Stanley meet Flat Steve. Flat Steve, Flat Stanley.

Your vision is flat too, btw :)

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[Frankyspanky 0]

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Atheists know everything? Cool, I didn't know that I know everything. Thanks for letting me know.

Rephrase;

Atheists believe they know everything about any possible deities as there is no other possible way to come to the conclusion that there is not any.

Make sense now...?

How did you come to the conclusion that any possibility of a Deity of any discription is impossible?

You would have to know everything to know that, there is too much that you do not know for you to be that certain.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Frankyspanky 0]

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So you think there is a chance that the earth might be flat. Got it.

Jeeez no.LOL

I believe that we know a lot less than what we don’t know. That is a difficult concept for many to grasp.

For that reason alone we can never be completely certain of anything.

I believe the earth is a sphere as it is the most likely conclusion. I don't rule out the possibility, however minute, that we all could be completely wrong.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[quade 4]

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Rephrase;

Atheists believe they know everything about any possible deities as there is no other possible way to come to the conclusion that there is not any.

I came to conclusions about Santa Claus fairly early in life, but it didn't require me to learn jack squat about the winter solstice celebrations of every culture on the planet.

Once one mythologic demi-god falls, the logical conclusion by any right thinking individual should be that they're all false unless proven otherwise. Since none are proven, there's simply no reason to believe in any of them and in fact the world can actually be explained much better without their mythology. "God" simply isn't necessary.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Frankyspanky 0]

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I came to conclusions about Santa Claus fairly early in life, but it didn't require me to learn jack squat about the winter solstice celebrations of every culture on the planet.

What conclusions?

Sant Clause is just Like jesus in My mind...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas


Like jesus, the chinese whispers over the centuries have skewed the reality of his existance and the result is a false and misleading representation of the person that most likely existed.

Just because you don't beleive in The Wal Mart Santa clause. That does not mean that St nicolas > Sinterklaas > santa clause is not based on the existance of a real human being.

Much the same as Jesus Christ.

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Once one mythologic demi-god falls, the logical conclusion by any right thinking individual should be that they're all false unless proven otherwise. Since none are proven, there's simply no reason to believe in any of them and in fact the world can actually be explained much better without their mythology. "God" simply isn't necessary

When you say; “any of them”, I too do not believe in the deities that have been presented to me either based on my given knowledge or apparent knowledge of how things work.

That is not to say that there isn’t a deity that exists that is not yet discovered by humans. Remember, we know less than what we don’t know.

To say that something needs to prove itself to you before it has a chance of existing is quite nonsensical really.


Humans' most vital mistake from what I have observed is our ability to assume that we are the center of everything.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[jakee 1,562]

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So you think there is a chance that the earth might be flat. Got it.

Jeeez no.LOL

I believe that we know a lot less than what we don’t know. That is a difficult concept for many to grasp.

For that reason alone we can never be completely certain of anything.

I believe the earth is a sphere as it is the most likely conclusion. I don't rule out the possibility, however minute, that we all could be completely wrong.

Interesting. So you don't rule out the minute possibility that everything we think we know is wrong, yet you are confident enough in what you know to a) dismiss and b) laugh at the suggestion that the earth is flat.

That's a very, very good analogy for atheism. Sure you can speculate an omnipotent being that not only created everything we can see, touch or otherwise detect but created it in a way that leaves no trace of its own existence, but functionally, is there a chance that happened? Jeeez no. Lol.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

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I am not in favor of religion and am an atheist

You realise that you just contradicted yourself there...

Atheism is as much a religon as Christianity or Islam...

No I did not contradict myself. No matter how you look at it atheism is not a religion.

And to address some of your other posts. No atheists don't claim to know everything by saying there isn't any deity of any kind. There simply is no evidence of any deity. So to claim there is a deity despite no evidence is just silly. Atheists generally don't claim there is no possibility of a deity existing, it's just so remote and unlikely that it's not really worth considering. Especially since there isn't any evidence to even suggest the possibility of a deity existing.

[maadmax 0]

That's a very, very good analogy for atheism. Sure you can speculate an omnipotent being that not only created everything we can see, touch or otherwise detect but created it in a way that leaves no trace of its own existence, but functionally, is there a chance that happened? Jeeez no. Lol.

[beowulf 1]

So your argument is since lots of people believe and pass it on to their children. It must be true.


So by that logic all religions are right.

So believing in the Hindu gods is just as valid as believing in Christianity.

[DanG 1]

50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.

- Dan G

[jclalor 12]

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The fact that God meets the needs of those who know Him, generation after generation, is proof enough for the necessity and existence of God. How He presents Himself other than through His Word is unimportant. Knowing how He creates & maintains the universe does not negate His presence.

[Frankyspanky 0]

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Atheists generally don't claim there is no possibility of a deity existing, it's just so remote and unlikely that it's not really worth considering.

That is an agnostic position.

It seems many self proclaimed atheists are actually agnostics.

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Especially since there isn't any evidence to even suggest the possibility of a deity existing.

Or everything could be evidence...

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[SpeedRacer 1]

What would happen if the Rapture occurs while I'm taking a dump? I would hope it would at least wait until I finished wiping. I know that Scripture tells us to always be ready, but I mean, come on.

Speed Racer
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[Frankyspanky 0]

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Interesting. So you don't rule out the minute possibility that everything we think we know is wrong, yet you are confident enough in what you know to a) dismiss and b) laugh at the suggestion that the earth is flat.

I was actually laughing at the pun that made reference to Jesus...

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Jeeez no.LOL

I believe the possibility of the world being flat is much, much less likely than the probability of it being spherical.

Spheres are all too common in nature, so it is too easy to come up with that conclusion.

Quantum physics however will throw a spanner in the works of any thing that seems like common sense,

Example;

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ScienceDaily (Feb. 27, 1998) — REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

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That's a very, very good analogy for atheism. Sure you can speculate an omnipotent being that not only created everything we can see, touch or otherwise detect but created it in a way that leaves no trace of its own existence, but functionally, is there a chance that happened? Jeeez no. Lol.

See your thoughts are tainted too much by the drivel if Christianity and other human based religions.

The mere fact that your heart beats and your cells divide are evidence of something quite astounding.

Everything is evidence of something that created it, I just don’t see us humans as being the center of that.

Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t. A closed mind will never know anything other than what they open their minds to.

Maybe we just aren’t supposed to know.

I’m cool with that too.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Frankyspanky 0]

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No matter how you look at it atheism is not a religion.

Atheism requires faith.

Faith that you have considered everything that will rule out every possibility of a chance of any deity existing.

therefore Atheism is faith based, but unlike the other religions, that faith is self centred. Rather than having faith in someone/something else

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[quade 4]

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No matter how you look at it atheism is not a religion.

Atheism requires faith.

Faith that you have considered everything that will rule out every possibility of a chance of any deity existing.

therefore Atheism is faith based, but unlike the other religions, that faith is self centred. Rather than having faith in someone/something else

Yours is a ridiculous premise.

It doesn't mean you have considered everything. It means you simply haven't been shown proof.

Lemme ask you, when you see a somebody pull a rabbit out of a hat, do you assume he's really performing magic or do you assume there is a logical explanation for how the trick works?

Does not knowing how the trick works make it any more "real magic"? No. It can't. Reality exists outside of a person's personal beliefs.

I assume it's a magician's trick rather than "real magic" and I'm fairly certain you do too even if you won't admit it on this forum.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,068]

>Atheism requires faith. Faith that you have considered everything that will rule out
>every possibility of a chance of any deity existing.

Nope. Atheists don't claim to have considered everything. They just don't think God exists.

[Coreece 190]

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no this isn't a serious religious discussion

No shit...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Frankyspanky 0]

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Yours is a ridiculous premise.

It doesn't mean you have considered everything. It means you simply haven't been shown proof.

Lemme ask you, when you see a somebody pull a rabbit out of a hat...

Not having been shown proof but leaving room for the possibility is an Agnostic view, not an Athiest one.

You step up and tell me my premise is ridiculous then try to lure me into some tangent..

Why not explain how my premise is ridiculous.

You can start by explaining how you came to the conclusion that there is no possibility for a deity to exist.

That is the claim of an atheist... isn't it?

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a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

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ag·nos·ti·cism
[ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm]
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief of an agnostic.
2.
an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.

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ag·nos·tic
   [ag-nos-tik]
–noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Frankyspanky 0]

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Nope. Atheists don't claim to have considered everything. They just don't think God exists.

Explain how it is possible to come to that conclusion without including 'everything' in the scope of the topic.

If any room is left for any possibility of a deity to exist at all by somebody they would be by definition an agnostic and not an atheist.

If you can explain how I am incorrect then I will listen, and adjust my position as I am agnostic you see.

Just telling me I am wrong goes no way in substantiating your claims.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Coreece 190]

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Nope. Atheists don't claim to have considered everything. They just don't think God exists.

That's right, because everytime the thought penetrates their thick head (which is a miracle in and of itself,btw.) they supress it...no thinking involved.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Frankyspanky 0]

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That's right, because everytime the thought penetrates their thick head (which is a miracle in and of itself,btw.) they supress it...no thinking involved.

Thats pretty ripe coming from a Christian?

While we are on the subject, what one of the many Gods that come under the umbrella of Christianity do you hold faith in?

Old testies or new one?

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[Coreece 190]

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Thats pretty ripe coming from a Christian?

Maybe it's time to eat it then...

*edit*

Oh ya...since we're on the subject....eat this:
The next big step for human evolution:
Holy Wars:-1:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVC2A20hwKU

Brother will kill brother
Spilling blood across the land
Killing for religion
Something I don't understand

Fools like me, who cross the sea
And come to foreign lands
Ask the sheep, for their beliefs
Do you kill on God's command?

A country that's divided
Surely will not stand
My past erased, no more disgrace
No foolish naive stand

The end is near, it's crystal clear
Part of the master plan
Don't look now to Israel
It might be your homeland

Holy wars

[Solo - Friedman]

Upon my podium, as the
Know it all scholar
Down in my seat of judgement
Gavel's bang, uphold the law
Up on my soapbox, a leader
Out to change the world
Down in my pulpit as the holier
Than-thou-could-be-messenger of God

Wage the war on organized crime
Sneak attacks, repel down the rocks
Behind the lines
Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die. they die

[Solo - Friedman]

They killed my wife and my baby,
With hopes to enslave me
First mistake... last mistake
Paid by the alliance, to slay all the giants
Next mistake... no more mistakes!

[Solo - Friedman]

[Solo - Mustaine]

Fill the cracks in, with judicial granite
Because I don't say it, don't mean I ain't
Thinkin' it.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away
I know what I said, now I must scream of the overdose
And the lack of mercy killings.
mercy killings
mercy killings
killings!!
killings!!
killings!!
next thing you know
they'll take my thoughts away!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...