rushmc 23 #201 September 20, 2011 QuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? In your world you would pay for both meals, add a tip, and I would get a $1.50 from the eatery"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #202 September 20, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Opps! Quote IRS Data Show Most Millionaires Pay Taxes at Higher Rate Than Middle Class http://comsen.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/20/7857952-irs-data-show-most-millionaires-pay-taxes-at-higher-rate-than-middle-class So much for your class envy and the big green monster on your shoulder What does mama say about this? she says pull your pants up and stop making a fool of yourself... Projecting agian? she also says you're a dick... Uh as opposed to being a pussy? of course my mama's got a pussy - duh! (does yours)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #203 September 20, 2011 http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/jointcommitteereport.pdf] QuoteWho else has to pay in President Barack Obama's "shared sacrifice" plan to cut the deficit by $3.6 trillion over ten years? FOX News analyst Jim Farrell found the following: * Increase the "pat down fee": The government currently charges a pat-down fee of $2.50 per enplanement ($5.00 max on a one-way trip). You read that right--you get charged a fee for someone to pat you down. The President proposes to change it to a flat $5.00 for a one-way trip and raise that fee to $7.50 over the next 4 years. It is expected to raise an additional $25 billion in pat-down fees over the next 10 years. * Charge military retirees for a "Medigap" plan: The plan proposes an annual fee of $200 per year to enroll in TRICARE for Life – essentially the military's "Medigap" plan ($6.7 billion over 10 years). * Increase prescription drug co-pays for military: Increase military co-pays for prescription drugs by $20.6 billion over 10 years. * Increase federal employee contributions for retirement: Increase federal employee contributions to retirement by 1.2% ($21 billion over 10 years). * Increase Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac mortgage fees: Increase mortgage fees by Fannie and Freddie by $15 per month on a new $220,000 mortgage – raising fees by $28 billion over 10 years. * $30 billion fee on financial institutions: $30 billion fee over the next 10 years on all financial institutions with assets over $50 billion. * Federal flood insurance: Increase federal flood insurance premiums by $4.2 billion over 10 years. * Increase unemployment insurance premiums: Raise the wage base for unemployment insurance premiums from the first $7,500 to the first $15,000 of wages (starting in 2014). [source: White House, "Living Within Our Means and Investing in the Future: The President’s Plan for Economic Growth and Deficit Reduction," September 19, 2011, http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/09/19/who-else-pays-for-presidents-36-trillion-deficit-cutting-plan/"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #204 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? In your world you would pay for both meals, add a tip, and I would get a $1.50 from the eatery No. This is a serious math question, Rush. How much should each of us tip the waitress to make things fair?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #205 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? In your world you would pay for both meals, add a tip, and I would get a $1.50 from the eatery No. This is a serious math question, Rush. How much should each of us tip the waitress to make things fair? Even thought this does not fit the situation I will go along However, "fair" is a subjective term. Can you be more specific? (and by the way, I WAS serious in my example. It is a good illustration of how the gov works today)"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #206 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? In your world you would pay for both meals, add a tip, and I would get a $1.50 from the eatery No. This is a serious math question, Rush. How much should each of us tip the waitress to make things fair? Even thought this does not fit the situation I will go along However, "fair" is a subjective term. Can you be more specific? THERE we go. Ok, so let's say a "fair" tip for the waitress is 15%. How much should each of us kick in so that it's fair?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #207 September 20, 2011 QuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? You need a little leason here, the problem is not the difference between eating a $20 steak and a $2 salad. Everone is using everything pretty equally ( both eating $20 steaks)but only 1 person is paying, and it is the freeloading moron calling for for the hard working tax paying citizen to pay for both meals. The rich don't mind paying for a larger share of the meal, they are just getting sick and tired of paying for ALL the meals. Make everyone, including those making $2k a year pay something and you will see the voting change to the right in a hurry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #208 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLet's say we go out to lunch, you and me. You're on a diet so you order a $2 salad. Me, I'm a fuckin' pig and I order a $20 steak. When the bill comes, how much should each of us tip the waitress? In your world you would pay for both meals, add a tip, and I would get a $1.50 from the eatery No. This is a serious math question, Rush. How much should each of us tip the waitress to make things fair? Even thought this does not fit the situation I will go along However, "fair" is a subjective term. Can you be more specific? THERE we go. Ok, so let's say a "fair" tip for the waitress is 15%. How much should each of us kick in so that it's fair? Again, I am going forward with this knowing full well where you are headed and you need to know this example has no relationship to taxation and the federal hole we are in. Lets go 20% .40 for me 4.00 for you But meals required the same effort from the person serving the food yet you pay more Why?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #209 September 20, 2011 QuoteYou need a little leason here, the problem is not the difference between eating a $20 steak and a $2 salad. Everone is using everything pretty equally ( both eating $20 steaks) . . . Oh I beg to differ. Everyone is not eating $20 steaks; not even hypothetically.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #210 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou need a little leason here, the problem is not the difference between eating a $20 steak and a $2 salad. Everone is using everything pretty equally ( both eating $20 steaks) . . . Oh I beg to differ. Everyone is not eating $20 steaks; not even hypothetically. how do you figure, did everyone not enjoy the benifits of our national defence? Did everyone not use our interstate highway system? how about our judicial system? were people kept safe in the skies? You are correct that it is not completely equal, the less you make generally the more you take, like welfare and earned income credits ect, but those people are getting the bigger stake and not paying for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #211 September 20, 2011 Quote Quote Opps! Quote IRS Data Show Most Millionaires Pay Taxes at Higher Rate Than Middle Class http://comsen.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/20/7857952-irs-data-show-most-millionaires-pay-taxes-at-higher-rate-than-middle-class So much for your class envy and the big green monster on your shoulder What does mama say about this? she says pull your pants up and stop making a fool of yourself... Oh come on... some of these guys look great getting a stinkface Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #212 September 20, 2011 Obama was elected in 2008 with his "Yes we can" turn America into a socialist society. The questions that remains is why did he wait so long since taking office to start moving towards his grad scheme of wealth redistribution? Is he really serious this time? or is this nothing more than Obama hitting the campaign trail early with the usual promises of socialist bliss. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #213 September 20, 2011 Quotehow do you figure, did everyone not enjoy the benifits of our national defence? Enjoy? Well, you certainly have a strange way of stating things, but no. I, for one, did not enjoy most of the "benifits" of our national defense system. Certainly not to the extent the military industrial complex did. The weapons manufacturers became billionaires, as did the contractors like Black Water and the military supply chain like Exxon. The national defense I enjoyed wasn't located in Afghanistan or Iraq. The national defense system I enjoyed was comprised a tiny fraction of the defense budget. QuoteDid everyone not use our interstate highway system? Again, no and certainly not to the extent commercial operations like the shipping industry does. Me? I barely use the interstate highway system at all compared to say, FedEx. Quotehow about our judicial system? I barely use that either. The only time I've been in a court is to fight a traffic ticket and serve on a jury. There are entire companies however, whose entire business model is based on lawsuits. Them tying up the court system is an enormous drain on society and of absolutely no benefit to me. Quotewere people kept safe in the skies? Yep, but I know people that have never been on a plane in their lives. Meanwhile there are others that make their living there. QuoteYou are correct that it is not completely equal, the less you make generally the more you take, like welfare and earned income credits ect, but those people are getting the bigger stake and not paying for it. I really don't believe you're malicious in your comments, but I do believe you've overlooked corporate welfare by a LARGE margin. It's absolutely not equal, but in ways you've never considered.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #214 September 20, 2011 Give me a specific example of what you think to be corp welfare please."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #215 September 20, 2011 From the unquestionably conservative CATO Institute; http://www.cato.org/corporate-welfare http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8230quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #216 September 20, 2011 QuoteFrom the unquestionably conservative CATO Institute; http://www.cato.org/corporate-welfare http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8230 Ok Not that I know where you are coming from Which should be dropped? All or part? I am all for dropping it for green energy research, wind, ethonal, bio fuels,farms, heck all of it. Stem cell, how far do you want to go?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #217 September 20, 2011 QuoteI am all for dropping it for green energy research, wind, ethonal, bio fuels,farms, heck all of it. I try not to make choices based on my own self interests. I want to see ALL of it go; farm subsidies, tobacco, oil . . . check this one out FILM subsidies . . . like I said, I'm even going against "my own." ALL of that artificial bullshit royally fucks over the economies across the country. Among other things, it encourages businesses to move from historically successful locations to temporarily "better" ones, but at the expense of legacy employees and the tax payers of the new location. As soon as those corporate welfare dollars stop, the companies will simply move to the next sucker town. It's a lose-lose for everyone except the companies. If we're all supposed to be free market capitalists, then it makes absolutely no sense for the government to be propping up businesses that have no business being in business other than to collect subsidies.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #218 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteI am all for dropping it for green energy research, wind, ethonal, bio fuels,farms, heck all of it. I try not to make choices based on my own self interests. I want to see ALL of it go; farm subsidies, tobacco, oil . . . check this one out FILM subsidies . . . like I said, I'm even going against "my own." ALL of that artificial bullshit royally fucks over the economies across the country. Among other things, it encourages businesses to move from historically successful locations to temporarily "better" ones, but at the expense of legacy employees and the tax payers of the new location. As soon as those corporate welfare dollars stop, the companies will simply move to the next sucker town. It's a lose-lose for everyone except the companies. If we're all supposed to be free market capitalists, then it makes absolutely no sense for the government to be propping up businesses that have no business being in business other than to collect subsidies. I will agree with you here Get rid of them all You realize the wind generation building would stop for the most part too, right?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #219 September 20, 2011 QuoteYou realize the wind generation building would stop for the most part too, right? Of course I do. I don't care. Honestly. If it's a viable technology and can compete with oil, it can do so on its own. That's not to say I would be against basic research for universities to create the technology to make that possible, but that's the difference. I want my money spent on research for things that will work rather than propping up things that can only work if subsidized. Look at the advances in robotics the DARPA contests have given us. Encourage going down the right path.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #220 September 20, 2011 Quote Enjoy? Well, you certainly have a strange way of stating things, but no. I, for one, did not enjoy most of the "benifits" of our national defense system. Certainly not to the extent the military industrial complex did. The weapons manufacturers became billionaires, as did the contractors like Black Water and the military supply chain like Exxon. fair reply Quote QuoteDid everyone not use our interstate highway system? Again, no and certainly not to the extent commercial operations like the shipping industry does. Me? I barely use the interstate highway system at all compared to say, FedEx. do you receive any packages from fedex, or the post office. Do you buy groceries? How do you think this stuff gets to you? Everyone benefits from the federal highway system. It's a key difference between us and most developing nations. Quote I barely use that either. The only time I've been in a court is to fight a traffic ticket and serve on a jury. There are entire companies however, whose entire business model is based on lawsuits. Them tying up the court system is an enormous drain on society and of absolutely no benefit to me. you certainly benefit from having a working justice system. Quote Yep, but I know people that have never been on a plane in their lives. Meanwhile there are others that make their living there. You don't have to be in the sky to benefit (ask workers of the former World Towers). And again, if you're receiving overnight shipping, it probably came over the air. Most of these are examples of infrastructure that benefits our society, and fairly equally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #221 September 20, 2011 QuoteMost of these are examples of infrastructure that benefits our society, and fairly equally. Not equally by a long shot because while I -may- occasionally find some benefit, other people are using the infrastructure to make fortunes. I'm not saying the average person shouldn't pay for some of the infrastructure costs. However, if somebody uses it more heavily, then they should, for the most part, be the one shouldering the bulk of the costs. Otherwise you just end up with the tragedy of the commons.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #222 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteMost of these are examples of infrastructure that benefits our society, and fairly equally. Not equally by a long shot because while I -may- occasionally find some benefit, other people are using the infrastructure to make fortunes. I'm not saying the average person shouldn't pay for some of the infrastructure costs. However, if somebody uses it more heavily, then they should, for the most part, be the one shouldering the bulk of the costs. given that fuel costs are the significant funding source for the roads, it appears that they do. Same with filing fees in the courts, TSA boarding fees. You're also treating it like a zero sum game where these people make money off the infrastructure at your expense, when it is really an example of growing the economy. We face this same problem in the internet where entities like Comcast want to be able to take all the benefits, versus the net neutrality players who see the possibilities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #223 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou realize the wind generation building would stop for the most part too, right? Of course I do. I don't care. Honestly. If it's a viable technology and can compete with oil, it can do so on its own. That's not to say I would be against basic research for universities to create the technology to make that possible, but that's the difference. I want my money spent on research for things that will work rather than propping up things that can only work if subsidized. Look at the advances in robotics the DARPA contests have given us. Encourage going down the right path. Wind will never be a viable tech unless the gov does what is doing to coal, oil and gas today. So I agree with you but we also need to get the gov out of the way and let the good ones go it without all the regs And no, I do not mean pollute the planet"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #224 September 20, 2011 Quotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #225 September 20, 2011 QuoteQuotethey've also got the money don't forget Smile so 'tis only fair... Your idea of "fair" does not seem to jive with reality. So if you and your wife have a car and I need one it is "fair" to take one of yours? he also probably has 2 tv's and some other extra stuf we could share Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
