tkhayes 348 #176 July 26, 2011 QuoteYou'd have to be in denial to think that without religion, people wouldn't have anything to fight about. you forgot: - The Holocaust - Burning witches in NE USA in the 1600's - The Spanish Inquisition - The Catholic church for centuries - Bosnia - Turkish Armenia - The Crusades I could go on, but if you missed all that, then you are, as you say "in denial" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #177 July 26, 2011 Quote Here is all your answers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxf3aL1WmU And the truth shall set you free.Well I guess thats all that needs to be said, this Wackjob was no Christian, nor was he Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, but he did write about some pagan stuff so maybe he was a pagan? Bill, you think this guy was a Pagan? Just asking, could be possible. Maybe he's nothing more than a poor misguided soul with no moral compass to guide him. Things to ponder... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #178 July 26, 2011 Comen article view these days in Norway http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article4184255.ece The attack was his plan B http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7727608 I post the norwegian articles since I can not find them in English. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #179 July 26, 2011 B.T.W Norwegian Wood is not a hard on. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #180 July 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteWriting him off as a loony is a tempting but lazy and dangerous thing to do.... Hey, there are people on this very board who think loonies should be allowed to have guns right up until the moment they open fire on innocent people. So, you've gotten your future telepathy machine working? Or is this more of your expert analysis of Youtube videos?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #181 July 26, 2011 News: Unsettling Wariness in Norway, Where Police Are Rarely Armed When a man dressed in a police uniform began slaughtering young people at a Norwegian summer camp last week, one of the first to be killed was a real police officer named Trond Berntsen, who for years had worked in security at the camp. Whether Officer Berntsen tried to stop the gunman is still being debated. But facing a man carrying multiple guns and ample ammunition, there was little he could do. Like most other police officers here, he had no weapon. By law, Norwegian police officers must have authorization from their chief to gain access to a firearm, but they have rarely needed to ask, until recently. Violent crime has been steadily increasing, jolting a society used to leaving doors unlocked and children to play without fear. Coupled with growing criticism over the police’s slow response time to the attacks and confusion about the death toll, which was lowered Monday to 76 from 93, there are growing questions about whether the police are equipped to deal with the challenges. “Criminals are now carrying weapons, so some people now think that police officers should have weapons as well...”Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 379 #182 July 26, 2011 QuoteNews: Unsettling Wariness in Norway, Where Police Are Rarely Armed When a man dressed in a police uniform began slaughtering young people at a Norwegian summer camp last week, one of the first to be killed was a real police officer named Trond Berntsen, who for years had worked in security at the camp. Whether Officer Berntsen tried to stop the gunman is still being debated. But facing a man carrying multiple guns and ample ammunition, there was little he could do. Like most other police officers here, he had no weapon. By law, Norwegian police officers must have authorization from their chief to gain access to a firearm, but they have rarely needed to ask, until recently. Violent crime has been steadily increasing, jolting a society used to leaving doors unlocked and children to play without fear. Coupled with growing criticism over the police’s slow response time to the attacks and confusion about the death toll, which was lowered Monday to 76 from 93, there are growing questions about whether the police are equipped to deal with the challenges. “Criminals are now carrying weapons, so some people now think that police officers should have weapons as well...”Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065Interesting that a modern, prosperous society could be so peaceful as to operate with even the police being unarmed. I hope that "loony" doesn't force things to change. Would that America could be so peaceful, but that horse left the barn long ago. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #183 July 26, 2011 The majority of Police in the UK are still unarmed too.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #184 July 26, 2011 Quote News: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065 And your point is ...? Aaaaw, come on - usually posting just a link is boring, JR. Let's hear your inner voice. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #185 July 26, 2011 7 police men have been killed by firearms since 1945. We have statistic the last 10 years 33 homicide a year and of them 4 by firearms. The last ten years the highest number is 8 and the lowest 2. Why should we risk more lethal weapons available for more tention? When I was a security, those who had a gun, just needed to clap their stomach, and walk away knowing they was not going to be shot at, and no shooting happen. If I was armed, what do you think would have happen? The police did catch them later anyway. Remember we have very few kills with firearms, even some bad guys have them. I guess it sounds strange, but it works. Crazy nuts will always make it somehow, and there is no way there was anything to prevent the last tragedy. If we would have prevented against such like him, I guess that would not be a society I would like to live in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #186 July 26, 2011 QuoteCrazy nuts will always make it somehow, and there is no way there was anything to prevent the last tragedy. That's exactly the point we were trying to make to you - glad to see you're not blaming the tool for the actions of the tool user anymore.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #187 July 26, 2011 Quote Quote Crazy nuts will always make it somehow, and there is no way there was anything to prevent the last tragedy. That's exactly the point we were trying to make to you - glad to see you're not blaming the tool for the actions of the tool user anymore. Holy sh't, Mike .... Why are you THAT afraid someone would blame your *holy cow (tool resp. weapon)* on anything? How ridiculous and idiotic is THAT reply ???? Quote That's exactly the point we were trying to make to you Who is "we", WTF ?!?!? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #188 July 26, 2011 But, there is a but, but that can we take later! Violence ....... violence,,,,,,,,,,,,and again violence with heavy toools is different. Oh I forgot to mention balls and behavior is essential for the outcome, and we have to sacrifice something for our freedom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #189 July 26, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteCrazy nuts will always make it somehow, and there is no way there was anything to prevent the last tragedy. That's exactly the point we were trying to make to you - glad to see you're not blaming the tool for the actions of the tool user anymore. Holy sh't, Mike .... Why are you THAT afraid someone would blame your *holy cow (tool resp. weapon)* on anything? I'm not - but then again, in *MY* world weapons don't jump off tables and shoot people like they evidently do in yours. Rational people don't want to believe that someone could be so callous as to walk up to another person and kill them, so they transfer the blame to the tool used. That is wishful thinking at it's worst and proven false time after time throughout history. QuoteHow ridiculous and idiotic is THAT reply ???? It's not - yours, on the other hand...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #190 July 26, 2011 QuoteBut, there is a but, but that can we take later! Violence ....... violence,,,,,,,,,,,,and again violence with heavy toools is different. Is someone MORE dead because their head was kicked in than if they were killed with a gun or a bomb? QuoteOh I forgot to mention balls and behavior is essential for the outcome, and we have to sacrifice something for our freedom. Can you explain this a bit more? It's unclear what you mean. (the first part of the sentence, not the second part - that's clear)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #191 July 26, 2011 Our culture is different still! Your culture is based on arms for security since day one, but we have more a weapon culture for food. Correct me if I am wrong? I think that is the difference in our mentality against weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #192 July 26, 2011 QuoteOur culture is different still! Your culture is based on arms for security since day one, but we have more a weapon culture for food. Correct me if I am wrong? I think that is the difference in our mentality against weapons. I'd say that security and hunting are both reasons - the hunters aren't as vocal as the defense minded folks.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #193 July 26, 2011 Still 30% of our households keeps weapons, and in USA 39%? We have an significant different attitude against weapons. Remember first time I arrived Z-hills and saw your target boards full size or half size body with faces of different enemies of USA (or who ever was unpopular at the moment). We are not used to figures that way to shoot at, and it was a bit disturbing experience if I may say so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #194 July 26, 2011 QuoteStill 30% of our households keeps weapons, and in USA 39%? We have an significant different attitude against weapons. And that's fine - different cultures are (by definition) different, and what works for me may not work for you (and vice versa). QuoteRemember first time I arrived Z-hills and saw your target boards full size or half size body with faces of different enemies of USA (or who ever was unpopular at the moment). We are not used to figures that way to shoot at, and it was a bit disturbing experience if I may say so. I can see where that would be disturbing for you - I'll say that in my experience, I see very few targets like that. The targets I use are either bullseye or outline only, no features.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #195 July 28, 2011 QuoteAnd that's fine - different cultures are (by definition) different, and what works for me may not work for you (and vice versa). Cultural Issue: Statistically, gun ownership in both countries is equally common, however, the gun homicide rate is 3,000% higher in the U.S.. With regard to gun violence, which culture is working and which is not? This issue I understand, as the question is rhetorical. Police Issue: What I don't understand and what cannot stand, however, is the cowardice of the initial law enforcement response at Utoya. The local LEO's arrived unarmed but with their weapons readily accessible in their vehicles. Breivik was actively executing children a few hundred yards away...and they *chose to* or were *ordered to* wait for SWAT. The trained men with guns failed to act while unarmed civilians bravely drove their boats near the island to rescue escaping swimmers. WTF?? The lessons learned from the lack of immediate law enforcement response at Columbine, Virginia Tech, (and other incidents in Europe) are well known by LEO's around the globe, but were ignored at Utoya. It is common LEO knowledge that in "active shooter" scenarios, one additional victim is executed for every thirty second delay in response. At a minimum, they knew children were being massacred and they waited for someone else to come and stop it. If they had weapons in their vehicles I can only assume they had vests as well. Time will tell if their failure to strap them on and engage the shooter was the result of an order from a superior, or cowardice. The talking heads in Oslo are saying that the officers could not have responded any faster. Shameful hogwash. Yes, it's Monday morning quarterbacking and all of the facts are not publicly available, but there is sufficient detail that Norwegian parents should know that their kids deserved a better response from the first cops on the scene. When men with testicles finally showed up and made their way to the island, Breivik was still heard firing his weapon. At that point they yelled "armed police!" as they ran through the woods toward the shooter, Breivik then dropped his weapon and surrendered before he was ever engaged. How many kids could have been saved if the locals had simply commandeered a boat and drove over there? One would have been enough._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #196 July 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteAnd that's fine - different cultures are (by definition) different, and what works for me may not work for you (and vice versa). Cultural Issue: Statistically, gun ownership in both countries is equally common, however, the gun homicide rate is 3,000% higher in the U.S.. With regard to gun violence, which culture is working and which is not? This issue I understand, as the question is rhetorical. And here I thought you'd quit blaming the tool for the action of the user. Murders overall are higher in the US. Feel free to show where murders wouldn't have occurred minus the gun, though. Re: Police.... when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Re: Response... see above for police...and I saw something that stated that some of the kids mobbed the shooter - is that true?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #197 July 28, 2011 It's not about ownership of guns, it's about culture and ethos. The recent incident is an anomaly. We clearly can learn a thing or two from them with regard to gun violence. They clearly have a thing or two to learn about LE response._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #198 July 28, 2011 QuoteIt's not about ownership of guns, it's about culture and ethos. The recent incident is an anomaly. We clearly can learn a thing or two from them with regard to gun violence. They clearly have a thing or two to learn about LE response. Really? Just what are we going to learn about gun violence from them, pray tell?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
