Israels' "Right to Exist"

[Frankyspanky 0]

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I assume you're talking about Rwanda there -- no other genocide of such wretched efficiency happened in modern times.

that we are aware of..

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[sundevil777 102]

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...Not to destroy them completely.

The objective of the war on terror is quite different.

You've done nothing to show that to be the case. The objective of "destroying a terrorist organization" is not at all genocide. Kinda like the previously mentioned:

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You - Genocide!!!!!!
Sane People - Proof??
You - It's right there!!! *Points wildly at nothing*
Sane People - Ahhh, now we get it...

You got nothing except troll status.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

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...Not to destroy them completely.

The objective of the war on terror is quite different.

You've done nothing to show that to be the case. The objective of "destroying a terrorist organization" is not at all genocide. Kinda like the previously mentioned:

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You - Genocide!!!!!!
Sane People - Proof??
You - It's right there!!! *Points wildly at nothing*
Sane People - Ahhh, now we get it...

You got nothing except troll status.

I think a couple of these sock puppets.. need a free trip to Gaza to be one with their poor downtrodden terrorist bretheran...Perhaps we can start an airline ticket fund for them. I'll put up a couple hundred up to get it going as long as they put their little weenies in front of a Hamas terrorist leader for a few weeks.It should be a bang on vacation as the brits might say.

[Thedivingdog 0]

I like your style kiddo...

[falxori 0]

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You really can't define the difference between calling someone "anti-Semitic" (distraction tactic) because they disagree with policies of Israel

I didn't call anybody anti Semitic. I said that some (if not much) of the Israel bashing trend has its roots in antisemitism.

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Israel is a documented human rights violator?

Documented by who? The UN Human rights committee? the one that was headed by Libya and had Syria on the board? the one that focuses on Israel 99% of the time and ignores pretty much anything else that is going on in the world?
This committee, much like the UN itself with the 50+ Arab/Muslim majority is a joke. The can "declare" the world is flat, it doesn't make it true.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Frankyspanky 0]

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You've done nothing to show that to be the case. The objective of "destroying a terrorist organization" is not at all genocide. Kinda like the previously mentioned:

Show me a delaration of war

Show me a trial convicting any captured villans

Show me evidence they are not just being killed.

How does a drone apprehend a criminal?

spin it how you want, we are engaging in genocide which ever way you look at it.

You fail to explain how that is not the case.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[dreamdancer 0]

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You really can't define the difference between calling someone "anti-Semitic" (distraction tactic) because they disagree with policies of Israel

I didn't call anybody anti Semitic.

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you brought that card straight out and played it...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

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[Guest]

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And just what race was being wiped out, pray tell?

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gen·o·cide
[jen-uh-sahyd]
–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Maybe you need to reconsider your definition, and then get back to me.

When I was in Ramallah, I did not spy any showers or ovens. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[dreamdancer 0]

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Israel is a documented human rights violator?

Documented by who?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Israel is a documented human rights violator?

Documented by who?

by the un. the same un that brought israel into existence and in september will vote to bring palestine into existence. finally some good news for you...

[dreamdancer 0]

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The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern Israel and bordering states such as Lebanon. The Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined.

From 1967 to 1989 the UN Security Council passed 131 resolutions directly addressing the Arab–Israeli conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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Palestinian officials said Monday they plan to begin mass marches against Israel's occupation of the West Bank on September 20, the eve of a largely symbolic UN vote expected to recognize their independence.

Palestinian official Yasser Abed Rabbo said leaders hope to attract millions, and the protest will be the first of a prolonged effort. He said the campaign would be called "Palestine 194," since the Palestinians hope to become the 194th member of the United Nations.

"The appeal to the UN is a battle for all Palestinians, and in order to succeed, it needs millions to pour into streets," he said.

With peace talks stalled, the Palestinians have decided to ask the UN to endorse their independence. They plan to ask the powerful Security Council, whose decisions are legally binding, for approval as a full member of the world body.

The U.S. opposes the Palestinian initiative and has signaled it will use its veto power in the council to defeat the measure.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinians-plan-mass-demonstrations-against-israel-on-eve-of-un-vote-1.376457

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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Palestinian officials said Monday they plan to begin mass marches against Israel's occupation of the West Bank on September 20, the eve of a largely symbolic UN vote expected to recognize their independence.

...

The U.S. opposes the Palestinian initiative and has signaled it will use its veto power in the council to defeat the measure.

Doesn't quite match what you said a couple posts earlier about voting a new Palestine into existence. Obama may be pushing a tougher line, but the US isn't going to allow a militant party to backdoor the peace process with a UN vote.

Ori already addressed the silliness about nations like Libya claiming that Israel committed rights violations. (Or Syria as well)

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that Israel has committed more rights violations than every other nation on earth combined over the past few decades. Given what we know from this year alone, and every genocide that has occurred in recent decades, it's shows a pretty obvious political bias.

[dreamdancer 0]

step by step...

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That would force the Palestinians to turn to the much larger General Assembly, where they enjoy widespread support. While a vote there would be symbolic, the Palestinians believe any international endorsement will isolate Israel and improve their position if negotiations resume.

Israeli-Palestinian talks have been stalled for nearly three years, and the Palestinians refuse to resume negotiations unless Israel halts settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem … captured areas claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu opposes the UN move

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinians-plan-mass-demonstrations-against-israel-on-eve-of-un-vote-1.376457

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

again you missed "While a vote there would be symbolic"

Of course they have better support in the general assembly. There's a lot more Arab countries than Israeli ones. But this is a time where the US veto power can negate the mob.

[dreamdancer 0]

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again you missed "While a vote there would be symbolic"

and as i said 'step by step'. now how long did it take for israel to get un recognition and come into existence - only 2000 odd years...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[muff528 3]

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again you missed "While a vote there would be symbolic"

and as i said 'step by step'. now how long did it take for israel to get un recognition and come into existence - only 2000 odd years...

2 years, 7 months. UN charter became effective October 24, 1945 and the State of Israel became independent on May 14, 1948. Israel was invaded by the Arab states on May 15, 1948. Of course the UN mythomaniacs didn't care since their motive in the creation of Israel was to come up with some answer to "the Jewish Question" that would finally allow them to wash their hands of the whole matter. ...just the beginnings of pathological idiocy from the UN.

[dreamdancer 0]

i think you'll find it's taken a bit longer than that for israel to come into existence
(meanwhile i would have thought you'd be grateful to the un for granting you statehood - and now it looks like the same for palestine, so double success)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[muff528 3]

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i think you'll find it's taken a bit longer than that for israel to come into existence
(meanwhile i would have thought you'd be grateful to the un for granting you statehood - and now it looks like the same for palestine, so double success)

Quoting you: "...how long did it take for israel to get un recognition and come into existence..." Just clearing up the facts.

BTW - Florida became a state waaaay before the UN was hemorrhaged into existence. The only thing the UN "grants" are meaningless decrees and "unequivocal condemnations" of Isreal ...Oh, and the occasional verbal smackdown "in the strongest possible terms" if any of their butt-buddy countries gets a little deserved heat from the responsible adult nations.

[dreamdancer 0]

so israel didn't really need un recognition or sponsorship? it could have done it on its own?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[Alias 0]

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Slander your opposition.

Yes, and your "human rights violator" post was so neutral, wasn't it?

Was it supposed to be? You're serious aren't you? You really can't define the difference between calling someone "anti-Semitic" (distraction tactic) because they disagree with policies of Israel and using an example that Israel is a documented human rights violator? What I wrote is factual. I looked, but couldn't locate any post the poster made that would be interpreted as "anti-Semitic" to a reasonable person.

Get creative with this sophisticated debate and quit relying on your Hasbara training manual.

My *what* training manual?

As for "sophistication" (not that you're showing any as of yet), here's a hint - if you're going to claim that your oppent is using distracting tactics, it's best if you're not using them yourself.

Just sayin'.

Mike - calling your opponent "anti-Semitic" for not agreeing with the policies of Israel is a distraction tactic because it is slander without cause. And now one spends energy defending themselves against the claim instead of debating facts. Google Hasbara 2009 global language dictionary and you will see why I expressed my suspicion.

Regarding "sophistication" of this topic? That means complicated. Your reading comprehension is the issue here.

Back on track - Israel is not only a documented human rights violator but continues to break key Geneva conventions. I know, I know all the comebacks. But those are still facts.

So, if you'd like to continue this debate with me, please stick to facts and not wasting time with defending slander or other distraction tactics. I'm not interested in that thanks.

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

Oh you very well implied that anti-Zionists are anti-semetics. And that my friend is false and an accusation typically used to derail the topic. Maybe you did not intend it to and merely threw out the insult. But it is a trend among the Pro-Israeli poster to rely on character attacks and slander.

And indeed I agree with your point that the UN Security Counsel has included seedy nations. But again, that does not dissolve the claim made against Israel.

Example: If you punched me in the face ad Charlie Manson tattled on you. It doesn't mean the event did not take place.

My point in Israel exhibits severe delusions of grandeur and an immense sense of entitlement. And from a US citizen stand point, I feel Israel has become a security, diplomatic and financial burden. Very much played down in main stream ball sack media.

Carpe Diem

[Alias 0]

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Israel is a documented human rights violator?

Documented by who?

by the un. the same un that brought israel into existence and in september will vote to bring palestine into existence. finally some good news for you...

[Alias 0]

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Israel is a documented human rights violator?

Documented by who?

by the un. the same un that brought israel into existence and in september will vote to bring palestine into existence. finally some good news for you...

Uh, not the same UN, and no, the UN will not be so voting in September.

[devildog 0]

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There is no humor or a lighter side of genocide when 800,000 plus people are killed in 100 days while the world watches.

I assume you're talking about Rwanda there -- no other genocide of such wretched efficiency happened in modern times. That genocide had nothing to do with Israel, and if anyone is to blame for that, it is 1. the very useless and impotent UN and 2. America, whose State department stood by and played semantics with the word "genocide" as hundreds of thousands died.

The fact that humans do nothing as others go to the slaughter, so long as it's not "their" group of people being killed (WWI Anatolia; WWII Europe; 1990s Rwanda, as brought up in this thread), is why Israel's existence shouldn't even be a subject of discussion. Israel has every reason to act zealously in its own self-defense when attacked time and time again as the world continues to watch. Once again -- a bit of empathy.

The premise of this whole thread "right to exist" (in quotes, mind you) is a farce.

If you crunch the numbers, Mao actually killed more people per day (and total as well)

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.