Tightening Government's belt.

[DiverMike 5]

What makes people think that politicians will do the right thing when it comes to reducing expenses to get rid of the deficit? I think it will be similiar to local school districts that get rid of extracurricular activities like sports or providing buses rather than firing the crazy guidance counselor and/or the 5 assistant librarians. The politicians are going to protect their lobbyist and make the American people suffer by reducing valuable services.

I am posting this rant so that in about 2 years I can bring this thread back up and say I told you so.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[mnealtx 0]

+1

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

What makes people think that politicians will do the right thing when it comes to reducing expenses to get rid of the deficit? I think it will be similiar to local school districts that get rid of extracurricular activities like sports or providing buses rather than firing the crazy guidance counselor and/or the 5 assistant librarians. The politicians are going to protect their lobbyist and make the American people suffer by reducing valuable services.

I am posting this rant so that in about 2 years I can bring this thread back up and say I told you so.

Who needs two years, your right now.

[quade 4]

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. . . rather than firing the crazy guidance counselor and/or the 5 assistant librarians.

Maybe I'm just nutty this way, but it seems to me like librarians are important in schools; even the assistant ones. A staff of six (one head and five assistants) doesn't seem all that large to me. YMMV depending on the size of the high school you went to.

You may have a point about guidance counselors though and especially when it comes to the crazy ones.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,050]

>I think it will be similiar to local school districts that get rid of
>extracurricular activities like sports or providing buses . . .

Right. Those are not part of education so those SHOULD be the first things jettisoned. There are plenty of sporting activities available for kids, and kids have bikes.

This is the entire problem with government spending in a nutshell. People want to cut government spending but don't want to give up their kid's football team. Multiply that by decades of spending and millions of those football teams - and we have the debt problem we do now.

>The politicians are going to protect their lobbyist and make the American
>people suffer by reducing valuable services.

WE HAVE TO SUFFER. There is no "just cut the fat" option. We've been doing that for 200 years. We have to cut real things that people need. The FAA. The CDC. Veteran's benefits. Road maintenance. Medicare. Social Security.

And until we are willing to suffer, then nothing will happen.

[airdvr 210]

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And until we are willing to suffer, then nothing will happen

Welcome to the Unites States of Nothing Will Happen

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I think it will be similiar to local school districts that get rid of
>extracurricular activities like sports or providing buses . . .

Right. Those are not part of education so those SHOULD be the first things jettisoned. There are plenty of sporting activities available for kids, and kids have bikes.

But clearly they aren't using them, and the ensuing obesity does have a substantial impact. It's a serious enough matter than canceling physical education should come after having 6 librarians in a high school library (I went to a highly regarded HS in Huntington Beach and I still went to the city and nearby university libraries for any matter of substance).

[billvon 3,050]

>But clearly they aren't using them, and the ensuing obesity does have a
>substantial impact.

So cancel busing and give them an incentive to ride those bikes to school.

>It's a serious enough matter . . . .

Yes, it is serious. So is the danger to kids from coal power plant pollution (second leading cause of non-genetically-based asthma.) Doesn't mean all schools should have natural gas power plants.

>than canceling physical education should come after having 6 librarians in a high
>school library. . .

The OP was talking about "extracurricular sports." Those are sports outside school - hence the name. Physical education is part of a school's educational program. So cancel sports, not phys ed.

Libraries are important to a school's function, which is educating students. Football teams are not.

And yes, it sure would be nice if we could have great extracurricular programs for all our schools. Drama, sports, science and math programs, model UN's, debate etc etc. Right now we are FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS in the hole. It's time to start sacrificing to get out of that hole. Once we get out of the hole, we can bring some of those really nice optional programs back.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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>But clearly they aren't using them, and the ensuing obesity does have a
>substantial impact.

So cancel busing and give them an incentive to ride those bikes to school.

>It's a serious enough matter . . . .

Yes, it is serious. So is the danger to kids from coal power plant pollution (second leading cause of non-genetically-based asthma.) Doesn't mean all schools should have natural gas power plants.

>than canceling physical education should come after having 6 librarians in a high
>school library. . .

The OP was talking about "extracurricular sports." Those are sports outside school - hence the name. Physical education is part of a school's educational program. So cancel sports, not phys ed.

Libraries are important to a school's function, which is educating students. Football teams are not.

And yes, it sure would be nice if we could have great extracurricular programs for all our schools. Drama, sports, science and math programs, model UN's, debate etc etc. Right now we are FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS in the hole. It's time to start sacrificing to get out of that hole. Once we get out of the hole, we can bring some of those really nice optional programs back.

The funny part about this is that most schools are funded from local property taxes and many school districts and local and state governments have to run a balanced budget.

It's the FEDERAL government that has been running unchecked deficits. Which is where the problem lies.

The rest of it, the fact that everybody wants stuff cut, just not their stuff is absolutley correct. We are going to have to pay higher taxes and lose a bunch of entitlements and services to get out of this.

I'm just not sure the politicans will be willing to do that.

And yes, I'd be willing to pay higher taxes for the services I get.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 3,050]

>I'm just not sure the politicans will be willing to do that.

I'm not sure either, but I've seen some encouraging signs. Some politicians are starting to reject some of the demands of the more extremist groups and seem more willing to work on compromises.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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>I'm just not sure the politicans will be willing to do that.

I'm not sure either, but I've seen some encouraging signs. Some politicians are starting to reject some of the demands of the more extremist groups and seem more willing to work on compromises.

True. But will the extemists on both sides dump the moderate politicians now in office for more extremist candidates (think Michelle Bachman)?

I don't doubt we will wiggle out of this situation with the debt celing, but I seriously doubt they will be able to find or sustain any real, long term solution. They will just keep "kicking the can down the road" like always.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 3,050]

>But will the extemists on both sides dump the moderate politicians now in office

I don't know, but again I am seeing encouraging signs:
====================================
House Speaker John Boehner's misreading of tea partyers' doggedness this week forced his chagrined team to postpone votes twice on his debt-ceiling bill. Finally, on Friday, Boehner had to amend the bill in ways Democrats openly derided. The events proved "that while the tea party Republicans are a noisy and effective protest movement, they are unfit for governing," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.

Said Rep. Steven LaTourette, an Ohio Republican: "We've lost some leverage."

. . .

The political fractures are reaching into the GOP, and even the tea party movement itself. Some tea party-backed lawmakers embraced original Boehner's bill, drawing fire from the movement's most unyielding wings.

A group called The United West labeled four House Republicans "tea party defectors." One of them was first-term Rep. Allen West of Florida, a highly visible favorite of many tea party factions.

The accusation angered conservative radio host Laura Ingraham, who brought West on her show and defended him. "He understands how to declare victory, even if that victory is incremental," she said. West understands "the limits of one's power when you control one house of Congress."

West said, "One minute they're saying I'm their tea party hero, and what, three or four days later. I'm a tea party defector? That kind of tea party schizophrenia, I'm not going to get involved in it."

. . .

Republican campaign strategists are weighing the tea party's valuable energy against the possibility that it might push the party away from mainstream politics, which appeal to crucial independent voters. A Pew Research poll found that 68 percent of American voters want lawmakers to compromise on the debt ceiling and default issue, even it means striking a deal they disagree with. Fewer than one in four said lawmakers should stand by their principles even if it leads to a default on U.S. obligations.

[mnealtx 0]

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A Pew Research poll found that 68 percent of American voters want lawmakers to compromise on the debt ceiling and default issue, even it means striking a deal they disagree with. Fewer than one in four said lawmakers should stand by their principles even if it leads to a default on U.S. obligations.

That's applicable to the Dems as well.

Reps have given the Dems the Ryan budget, Cap, Cut and Balance and now working on the Boehner bill - the Dems have stonewalled all of them, and in fact have sent the House a letter stating that the Boehner bill will not be passed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,050]

>Reps have given the Dems the Ryan budget, Cap, Cut and Balance and now working
>on the Boehner bill - the Dems have stonewalled all of them, and in fact have sent the
>House a letter stating that the Boehner bill will not be passed.

The GOP is now saying that too. McCain:

“What is really amazing about this is that some members are believing that we can pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution in this body with its present representation, and that is foolish. That is worse than foolish. That is deceiving many of our constituents by telling them that just because the Majority Leader tabled the balanced budget amendment legislation that somehow through 'amending and debate' we could somehow convince the majority on the other side of the aisle to go along with a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. That is not fair! That is not fair to the American people to hold out and say, 'we won't agree to raising the debt limit until we pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.' It's unfair. It's bizarro.”

When even McCain is starting to reject the extremists in the Tea Party, it's a very hopeful sign to those who are interested in a compromise.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Reps have given the Dems the Ryan budget, Cap, Cut and Balance and now working
>on the Boehner bill - the Dems have stonewalled all of them, and in fact have sent the
>House a letter stating that the Boehner bill will not be passed.

The GOP is now saying that too. McCain:

“What is really amazing about this is that some members are believing that we can pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution in this body with its present representation, and that is foolish. That is worse than foolish. That is deceiving many of our constituents by telling them that just because the Majority Leader tabled the balanced budget amendment legislation that somehow through 'amending and debate' we could somehow convince the majority on the other side of the aisle to go along with a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. That is not fair! That is not fair to the American people to hold out and say, 'we won't agree to raising the debt limit until we pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.' It's unfair. It's bizarro.”

When even McCain is starting to reject the extremists in the Tea Party, it's a very hopeful sign to those who are interested in a compromise.

If that were the case, the only thing Boehner would have submitted would have been a balanced budget amendment bill.

That's (quite obviously) not the case, so both you and McCain are arguing from false pretenses.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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>than canceling physical education should come after having 6 librarians in a high
>school library. . .

The OP was talking about "extracurricular sports." Those are sports outside school - hence the name. Physical education is part of a school's educational program. So cancel sports, not phys ed.

PE uses the same facilities as "sports." Cancel the latter and you'll see the same sort of PE I saw in the 4th grade - 3 day of activity in 180.

Physical education is just as important as a underfunded library. And given recent trends, more so in my opinion. If a school board debated the subject and made eliminations based on that conclusion, or the other way around, I don't object. I reject your assertion that it's an obvious decision for the librarians. (And my school of 2000+ managed with far less than 6)

[billvon 3,050]

>so both you and McCain are arguing from false pretenses.

And, apparently, Steve LaTourette, Steve Womack, Jon Kyl and several other republican lawmakers. You'll have to take it up with them.

[billvon 3,050]

>PE uses the same facilities as "sports." Cancel the latter and you'll see the same sort
>of PE I saw in the 4th grade - 3 day of activity in 180.

My school had zero facilities. We used the auditorium to run around in, 3 times a week, during the winter. And we used the grass outside during the summer. Seemed to work.

>Physical education is just as important as a underfunded library.

Agreed. Schools should teach PE, and parents should pay for sports if their children wish to play them. End government support of parent's whims and you'll find they get a lot more practical.

>(And my school of 2000+ managed with far less than 6)

That's fine. We had about 2000 students and we had 3 librarians, seemed to work. I would imagine a really large school would need 6. Whatever makes sense to support the library.

And in any case school libraries have nothing to do with federal funding; it's just an example. Local towns can spend their money any way they like. But as the Federal government has shown, you can't always get every whim funded and still expect to have anything like a balanced budget.

[Bolas 5]

It's not about cuts, some are still playing the old shock to get more money game or maybe misdirection.

If you're in a big football town, you say you're cutting sports. People start complaining and then you offer the "compromise" of cutting something else or they come up with more money somehow to save that program.

Where I grew up the county school board had 2 ways they could always get more money:
* Propose year round school.
* Say they needed to redraw the school lines for growth which meant putting people in the nicer areas into the poorer and half empty school.

I'll agree some programs need to either be cut or become self sufficient, but what needs to happen more is an x% cut across the board of all as well.

Exclude no one and nothing from at least some level of cuts.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[mnealtx 0]

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>so both you and McCain are arguing from false pretenses.

And, apparently, Steve LaTourette, Steve Womack, Jon Kyl and several other republican lawmakers. You'll have to take it up with them.

Revised bill passed - no balanced budget amendment required for the limit increase to prevent default on Aug 2nd.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Bolas 5]

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>Physical education is just as important as a underfunded library.

Agreed. Schools should teach PE, and parents should pay for sports if their children wish to play them. End government support of parent's whims and you'll find they get a lot more practical.

You evil heartless bastard. Now you're discriminating against poor kids. I mean if they can't play sports how are they going to become professional athletes to better themselves? Putting that focus on their classes?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Physical education is just as important as a underfunded library.

Agreed. Schools should teach PE, and parents should pay for sports if their children wish to play them. End government support of parent's whims and you'll find they get a lot more practical.

Huntington Beach was in a rapidly decline for school age children when I was there, so there was frequent cutting. (My high school dropped 50% in attendance in 10 years). One result was that yes, all athletes were paying a fee for the buses used to go to remote events. Not sure if it was a comprehensive one or a blanket fee.

[DanG 1]

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My school had zero facilities. We used the auditorium to run around in, 3 times a week, during the winter. And we used the grass outside during the summer. Seemed to work.

I remember that school, it was the one on top of the hill that was uphill both ways. Yeah, the one that always had snow and ice all over it, and the kids wore cardboard shoes.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

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>I'm just not sure the politicans will be willing to do that.

I'm not sure either, but I've seen some encouraging signs. Some politicians are starting to reject some of the demands of the more extremist groups and seem more willing to work on compromises.

It looks to me like the only ones NOT wanting to compromise are those asking for it. (ie the politicians)

Anything major cuts their power. Not sure they can stomach that.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lurch 0]

I think this debate is absurd.
We are talking trillions here. People agonizing over cutting Johnny's Glee Club to save a few bucks or whatever is like trying to build a levee with a teaspoon. How bout we talk to the military and see of they can manage to get by on a budget of, say, ONLY 250 fucking billion instead of the 500+billion they get every year.
I'm sure we can still easily intimidate and dominate half the planet on 250 billion. And I'd bet dumping that other 250 billion back into the pockets of the citizens it was taken from to spend on food gas and housing instead of guns and 5 billion dollar stealth killer whizbangs from Raytheon would do more for the economy than all the stimulus in Washington.

But theres vested interests in keeping military budgets this big. Whole towns and regions dependent on military contracts and industries. Ain't gonna happen. So we're gonna do without decent roads and basic services so they can get a couple more carriers they don't fucking need. Welcome to America.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.