USA the final economic melt down?

[Skyrad 0]

As a European I've seen several countries screwed over credit rating so I'm not coming from a position of holier than thou. Nor am I either a Democrat or Republican.
My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and default simply to hurt the Dems? From the outside thats the way it looks. It looks like US politics has become so bipartisan that the politicians would rather score points off each other than save the nations economy. Or are the Republicans simply sweating Obama and the Dems?
The USA must realise that once it loses its current economic standing there is no coming back its a wet and slippery slide to 2nd rate nation status.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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As a European I've seen several countries screwed over credit rating so I'm not coming from a position of holier than thou. Nor am I either a Democrat or Republican.
My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and default simply to hurt the Dems? From the outside thats the way it looks. It looks like US politics has become so bipartisan that the politicians would rather score points off each other than save the nations economy. Or are the Republicans simply sweating Obama and the Dems?
The USA must realise that once it loses its current economic standing there is no coming back its a wet and slippery slide to 2nd rate nation status.

That is a VERY well placed hammer Jamile....you hit that nail dead on.

They and their supporters have done everthing and anything to bring this country down.. as long as it makes the guy in what some of them call the Black House.... look bad.

[rhaig 0]

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As a European I've seen several countries screwed over credit rating so I'm not coming from a position of holier than thou. Nor am I either a Democrat or Republican.
My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and default simply to hurt the Dems? From the outside thats the way it looks. It looks like US politics has become so bipartisan that the politicians would rather score points off each other than save the nations economy. Or are the Republicans simply sweating Obama and the Dems?
The USA must realise that once it loses its current economic standing there is no coming back its a wet and slippery slide to 2nd rate nation status.

they're being short-sighted and only worrying about how their current actions make them look in the immediate future. Of course we're to blame for that, because we, the voters, only look at the history that's spoon-fed to us during the election cycle. It's far enough from that election cycle that they can make up other shit to tell us between now and then.

--
Rob

[mnealtx 0]

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As a European I've seen several countries screwed over credit rating so I'm not coming from a position of holier than thou. Nor am I either a Democrat or Republican.
My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and default simply to hurt the Dems? From the outside thats the way it looks. It looks like US politics has become so bipartisan that the politicians would rather score points off each other than save the nations economy. Or are the Republicans simply sweating Obama and the Dems?
The USA must realise that once it loses its current economic standing there is no coming back its a wet and slippery slide to 2nd rate nation status.

Well, the Republicans have submitted three different solutions that the Dems have all shot down. Reid and the Senate Dems sent a letter to the House stating that they wouldn't pass the Boehner bill before it was even submitted, and Obama stated he would veto it if passed....so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

And, just as an FYI...

CBO projected revenue for 2011: 2.567 TRILLION
Interest on debt: 385.8 BILLION

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

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CBO projected revenue for 2011: 2.567 TRILLION
Interest on debt: 385.8 BILLION

So are you saying that the country is screwed already? It looks like all that is holding the nation up is external belief that the creditors will get their money back. If that slides so does everything else surely?
Do you think an accomodation will be reached in time for Tuesday Mike?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it seems to me that the Republicans are less willing to back down and have more of the blame (and I vote R far, far more than D).

The R's are completely unwilling to give up their "No New Taxes" policy, and that's impossible to do. There's no real way to cut the budget down enough to matter.

Tying the debt ceiling to debt reduction, while a noble idea, isn't going to happen without revenue enhancement.

Unfortunately, the R's have painted themselves into a corner. They can't go back on their "No Taxes" policy (remember Bush #1?) and they can't tie the debt ceiling to lower deficits without doing so.

There also seems to be a small number of the Tea Party type that actually want to see a default, in order to get the kinds of cuts that will balance the budget. I think they are more than just a little naive about the consequences that we will face if that happens.

What I'd really like to see is adults running the country.

But they are smart enough not to run for election.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[nigel99 572]

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CBO projected revenue for 2011: 2.567 TRILLION
Interest on debt: 385.8 BILLION

So are you saying that the country is screwed already? It looks like all that is holding the nation up is external belief that the creditors will get their money back. If that slides so does everything else surely?
Do you think an accomodation will be reached in time for Tuesday Mike?

I am not really clued up on the who debt ceiling issue and the real consequences. One thing that does strike me is that the US government appears to still be adopting the "spend your way out of debt" approach that Gordon Brown took. That approach is doomed to failure in the longer term.

It does appear at face value the issue might be properly addressed by having to tighten their belts in the US.

I must say that I was mildly surprised to not see a bit of panic buying, stocking up on rifles and ammunition that appears to happen in the US whenever a major political event is likely to take place.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[mnealtx 0]

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CBO projected revenue for 2011: 2.567 TRILLION
Interest on debt: 385.8 BILLION

So are you saying that the country is screwed already? It looks like all that is holding the nation up is external belief that the creditors will get their money back.

No, it's not screwed - there's money available to pay the interest due. What it means is that Treasury has to decide what gets paid after the interest.

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Do you think an accomodation will be reached in time for Tuesday Mike?

I don't know.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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I must say that I was mildly surprised to not see a bit of panic buying, stocking up on rifles and ammunition that appears to happen in the US whenever a major political event is likely to take place.

Reason number one: Most here in the US have no idea how bad a default could get.
If prices rise so high (hyperinflation) that real problems start, problems like food shortages and fuel shortages (winter is coming mind you), it may get ugly.

Reason number two: The government has a few tools to stop that sort of thing from happening. They've used most of the simple, economic ones trying to get the economy going, but the US produces a whole lot of food, and could probably feed ourselves without help. It would get really messy, and would mean the downfall of the US as a superpower, but we'd get through it.

Reason number three: Most of the paranoids stockpiled guns and ammo in the aftermath of Obama's election, expecting a bunch of new gun control laws. For a while, AR-15s were on a six to nine month wait. Ammunition was in a similar situation. Very hard to find certain calibers, and very expensive when you could find it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Frankyspanky 0]

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The R's are completely unwilling to give up their "No New Taxes" policy, and that's impossible to do. There's no real way to cut the budget down enough to matter

Bullshit, bring the boys (and girls) home, reduce the size of the government and bring the surplus back. There are still hundreds of millions of people in the United States and they can generate some serious cash.

Fiscal responsibility is the only real way to end this problem, sweeping the problem under the carpet and saving it for later will not ever be the correct thing to do.

Don't kid yourself.

How much money are we spending on military each day again? each year? how much has been commited in the coming years...

For what?

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[nigel99 572]

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The R's are completely unwilling to give up their "No New Taxes" policy, and that's impossible to do. There's no real way to cut the budget down enough to matter

Bullshit, bring the boys (and girls) home, reduce the size of the government and bring the surplus back. There are still hundreds of millions of people in the United States and they can generate some serious cash.

Fiscal responsibility is the only real way to end this problem, sweeping the problem under the carpet and saving it for later will not ever be the correct thing to do.

Don't kid yourself.

How much money are we spending on military each day again? each year? how much has been commited in the coming years...

For what?

We (UK and US) have made our bed and have to lie in it. There is no moral option of walking away from the mess we have created in Iraq - no matter how bad our finances are.

As for the comment on reducing military spending, sure slash the R&D budgets. The US spends a disproportionate amount on its military.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Frankyspanky 0]

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There is no moral option of walking away from the mess we have created in Iraq - no matter how bad our finances are.

Not overnight no, but as soon as possible.

These occupations are that, occupations.

There is no moral justification in staying.

Back a hundred years ago, especially around Woodrow Wilson, what happened in this country is we took freedom and we chopped it into pieces.
Ron Paul

[winsor 236]

As for the comment on reducing military spending, sure slash the R&D budgets. The US spends a disproportionate amount on its military.

[billvon 3,078]

>My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and
>default simply to hurt the Dems?

Yes, they are. They'd rather see the economy destroyed than give Obama a victory.

[billvon 3,078]

>so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

The guy who walked out of the negotiation meetings rather than compromise.

=========================
Debt Ceiling Talks Collapse as Boehner Walks Out



WASHINGTON — Negotiations over a broad deficit reduction plan collapsed in acrimony on Friday after Speaker John A. Boehner suddenly broke off talks with President Obama, raising the risk of an economy-shaking default.

[airdvr 210]

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>My question is simply are the Republicans prepared to trash the USA credit rating and
>default simply to hurt the Dems?

Yes, they are. They'd rather see the economy destroyed than give Obama a victory.

.

Not so fast. Tea party republicans were voted into office on a platform of reducing the debt and restructuring government spending. We're just not used to politician's keeping their campaign promises.

Many of us know it will be painful to fix this problem but we want to see a real effort by DC to reduce spending before we allow tax increases. That plan doesn't sit well with Dems.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jclalor 12]

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Not so fast. Tea party republicans were voted into office on a platform of reducing the debt and restructuring government spending. We're just not used to politician's keeping their campaign promises.

They were voted in to get the Muslim Kenyan out of the White House. remember the old "Lets take our country back' Every poll showed the tea baggers thought Obama was Muslim, a Kenyan, a socialist. The tea baggers represent a large portion of the small group of idiots this country is blessed to have.

[airdvr 210]

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Not so fast. Tea party republicans were voted into office on a platform of reducing the debt and restructuring government spending. We're just not used to politician's keeping their campaign promises.

They were voted in to get the Muslim Kenyan out of the White House. remember the old "Lets take our country back' Every poll showed the tea baggers thought Obama was Muslim, a Kenyan, a socialist. The tea baggers represent a large small portion of the small large group of idiots this country is blessed to have.

FIFY

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[mnealtx 0]

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>so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

The guy who walked out of the negotiation meetings rather than compromise.

So, it was a show of strength when Obama did it, but 'refusing to compromise' when Boehner did it?

Boehner and the House have sent the Ryan budget, Cap Cut and Balance and now the latest bill. All were tabled. Reid and the Senate Dems send Boehner a letter stating that the bill wouldn't pass even before it was voted on. Obama stated he would veto it if it somehow made it through Congress.

And you're saying that *Boehner* is the one that won't compromise?

You're spinning so hard you're looking like something out of the Exorcist, Bill.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

You're spinning so hard you're looking like something out of the Exorcist, Bill.

The one being exorcised I for sure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[StreetScooby 5]

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Well, the Republicans have submitted three different solutions that the Dems have all shot down. Reid and the Senate Dems sent a letter to the House stating that they wouldn't pass the Boehner bill before it was even submitted, and Obama stated he would veto it if passed....so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

I find it interesting how the Dems were all for compromise for this debate, but couldn't care less when passing Obamacare and the "Stimulus" package.

We are all engines of karma

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, the Republicans have submitted three different solutions that the Dems have all shot down. Reid and the Senate Dems sent a letter to the House stating that they wouldn't pass the Boehner bill before it was even submitted, and Obama stated he would veto it if passed....so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

I find it interesting how the Dems were all for compromise for this debate, but couldn't care less when passing Obamacare and the "Stimulus" package.

No doubt.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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Well, the Republicans have submitted three different solutions that the Dems have all shot down. Reid and the Senate Dems sent a letter to the House stating that they wouldn't pass the Boehner bill before it was even submitted, and Obama stated he would veto it if passed....so tell me again who's more prrepared to 'trash the USA credit rating'?

I find it interesting how the Dems were all for compromise for this debate, but couldn't care less when passing Obamacare and the "Stimulus" package.

Liberal says = we need to compromise

what they mean = my way or the highway

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

I guess somethings never change

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jclalor 12]

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I find it interesting how the Dems were all for compromise for this debate, but couldn't care less when passing Obamacare

No Democratic compromise on Healthcare? It was only 2 years ago, surely your memory is not that bad. Remember it went from single payer to the water downed crap he ended up with.

Just so I have it straight, you claim Obama got everything in the health bill he wanted. What he proposed in the beginning is the same that's in the final bill?