shropshire 0 #51 August 4, 2011 Quote .....I didnt read anything but the OPs post... Yeap, that's pretty much how it works around here - Often, not EVEN the 1st post - but it doesn't stop folks flapping their jaws and tapping their fingers!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #52 August 4, 2011 Quote Quote .....I didnt read anything but the OPs post... Yeap, that's pretty much how it works around here - Often, not EVEN the 1st post - but it doesn't stop folks flapping their jaws and tapping their fingers!! Not reading what you posted. Just flapping my jaw and tapping my fingers."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #53 August 5, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTraffic lights do not reduce accidents, and they lead to more congestion. They should be eliminated altogether. I believe what Kallend is advocating is roundabouts. Then he should have said so. No, I said what I meant to say. Well then, if you said all you meant to say without leaving anything out, then you're just plain wrong. As previously mentioned, "some not so smart".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #54 August 5, 2011 I think Kallend is talking about this: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html A lot of cities have been doing away with traffic rules and signals all together. The idea is (and it seems to work) is if you take away the signs and the rules, the people on the road will have to respond to each other. This knowing that the other person doesn't have any rules to obey leads to people paying attention to the road and each other, and also lends to people, who have to interact with each other, being () courteous.... You know how people treat each other here on the internet? How it's different than how people treat each other in real life? Signs are kind of like viewing people on a computer screen and if you remove them you have to treat them like you would if you (pun intended) met them on the street. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #55 August 5, 2011 Quote This knowing that the other person doesn't have any rules to obey leads to people paying attention to the road and each other, and also lends to people, who have to interact with each other, being () courteous.... You know how people treat each other here on the internet? How it's different than how people treat each other in real life? Signs are kind of like viewing people on a computer screen and if you remove them you have to treat them like you would if you (pun intended) met them on the street. Interesting, I took your example the other way: there aren't many rules on the internet about how to treat others (analogous to the town without signage) and most folks treat others like complete asshats on the internet. Another note: this is the most civilized thread I've seen in SC in YEARS. Elvisio "keepin' it civil" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #56 August 5, 2011 QuoteI think Kallend is talking about this: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html A lot of cities have been doing away with traffic rules and signals all together. The idea is (and it seems to work) is if you take away the signs and the rules, the people on the road will have to respond to each other. We don't know what he's referring to, because he won't expand upon his claim. He seems to think that we should all just take his word for it, without any kind of supporting logic or explanation. That may work for him in a classroom full of 19-year-olds, but we're beyond that here. Nor does he qualify what he says in any way, implying that it works in all places, at all times, in any circumstances. And that's baloney. We've all seen what happens in busy cities when the traffic lights go out: chaos and congestion. That alone proves his theory is wrong. We've all seen it from personal experience. And notice how I manage to respond without calling anyone stupid like kallend does. I wonder when the moderators will step up and say something to him? He's done it twice now... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #57 August 5, 2011 A+ in missing the point.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #58 August 5, 2011 QuoteAnother note: this is the most civilized thread I've seen in SC in YEARS. I think that's because there's none of the usual hot button issues of god, guns or government which divide people and bring out personal biases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #59 August 5, 2011 QuoteA+ in missing the point. Blah blah blah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,074 #60 August 5, 2011 >And that's baloney. We've all seen what happens in busy cities when the traffic lights >go out: chaos and congestion. Right. And many of us have been to Europe (or Boulder, CO) where missing traffic lights do not lead to chaos and congestion; indeed, they seem to work pretty well. Heck, I've even been in San Diego where power to traffic lights went out due to a blackout, and people seemed to manage OK without chaos and congestion. Thus there are arguments on both sides. >And notice how I manage to respond without calling anyone stupid like kallend does. You are one of the more insulting posters on here when it comes to your diatribes against liberals, "gun-o-phobes" and democrats. Both you and Kallend get away with it because it is explicitly OK to attack groups of people here, whether they are groups that support gun regulation, George Bush or traffic circles. Needless to say it would be nice if both of you refrained from that, but in many ways this is what Speaker's Corner is for - to keep that crap out of the main forums. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #61 August 5, 2011 Quote We've all seen what happens in busy cities when the traffic lights go out: chaos and congestion. That alone proves his theory is wrong. We've all seen it from personal experience. Well DUH! Design a traffic management system around traffic lights and you get chaos when they go out. If you stop to think about it, you'll see that you are supporting my point. Traffic lights are a PISS POOR way of managing traffic. There are far better alternatives that are: (1) safer, (2) cause less congestion, (3) result in less pollution and (4) less waste of fuel, (5) less waste of time, and (6) don't "go out" when the power fails.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 855 #62 August 5, 2011 Here in Orlando, the city has admitted to programming the lights to intentionally slow traffic and stop it in front of businesses. Business friendly, while pissing off the consumer. Time, fuel, and pollution should seem sufficient reasons for most people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #63 August 5, 2011 Quote>And that's baloney. We've all seen what happens in busy cities when the traffic lights >go out: chaos and congestion. Right. And many of us have been to Europe (or Boulder, CO) where missing traffic lights do not lead to chaos and congestion; indeed, they seem to work pretty well. Heck, I've even been in San Diego where power to traffic lights went out due to a blackout, and people seemed to manage OK without chaos and congestion. Thus there are arguments on both sides. Sure, it can work in some places at some times. However, because it doesn't work in all places, therefore the general theory is false. Quote>And notice how I manage to respond without calling anyone stupid like kallend does. You are one of the more insulting posters on here when it comes to your diatribes against liberals, "gun-o-phobes" and democrats. Both you and Kallend get away with it because it is explicitly OK to attack groups of people here, whether they are groups that support gun regulation, George Bush or traffic circles. Needless to say it would be nice if both of you refrained from that, but in many ways this is what Speaker's Corner is for - to keep that crap out of the main forums. "Gun-o-phobes" does not insult any particular individuals. It's not even an insult of a general group, because it's an accurate description of them - they're afraid of guns. And I certainly dispute that I'm "one of the more insulting posters". Sheesh, I never start anything, but I do sometimes respond in-kind when attacked. And there is a whole big list of people that are worse than myself. But I realize that since the moderators are liberals, and I'm perceived to be a conservative, that therefore my degree of evilness is elevated in your minds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #64 August 5, 2011 QuoteTraffic lights are a PISS POOR way of managing traffic. There are far better alternatives that are: (1) safer, (2) cause less congestion, (3) result in less pollution and (4) less waste of fuel, (5) less waste of time, and (6) don't "go out" when the power fails. Oh my gosh, now you're finally getting around to admitting that it's not just a matter of removing the traffic lights, which you didn't bother to dispute or elaborate on earlier. And therefore, your general statement DID in fact have some qualifiers that needed to go along with it - like setting up alternative methods. Do you see how your debate style is what is causing all the problems here? Just be honest, forthcoming and straight-forward right up front, instead of playing your silly games. "Some people aren't so smart." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #65 August 5, 2011 Quote Quote Quote .....I didnt read anything but the OPs post... Yeap, that's pretty much how it works around here - Often, not EVEN the 1st post - but it doesn't stop folks flapping their jaws and tapping their fingers!! Not reading what you posted. Just flapping my jaw and tapping my fingers. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #66 August 5, 2011 QuoteQuoteTraffic lights are a PISS POOR way of managing traffic. There are far better alternatives that are: (1) safer, (2) cause less congestion, (3) result in less pollution and (4) less waste of fuel, (5) less waste of time, and (6) don't "go out" when the power fails. Oh my gosh, now you're finally getting around to admitting that it's not just a matter of removing the traffic lights, which you didn't bother to dispute or elaborate on earlier. And therefore, your general statement DID in fact have some qualifiers that needed to go along with it - like setting up alternative methods. Do you see how your debate style is what is causing all the problems here? Just be honest, forthcoming and straight-forward right up front, instead of playing your silly games. Your own OP nicely points out a defect in traffic lights as a traffic management tool. Quote "Some people aren't so smart." Seems to be a Texas thing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #67 August 5, 2011 QuoteQuote"Some people aren't so smart." Seems to be a Texas thing. Seems to be an Illinois thing. (See how childish these veiled insults are?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,563 #68 August 5, 2011 Quote Do you see how your debate style is what is causing all the problems here? Just be honest, forthcoming and straight-forward right up front, instead of playing your silly games. Holy crap John, does this mean you might actually start stating an opinion of your own in one of those myriad random news article cut and paste push-poll threads you start? It really would be so refreshing to hear what you actually think for onceDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #69 August 5, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote"Some people aren't so smart." Seems to be a Texas thing. Seems to be an Illinois thing. (See how childish these veiled insults are?) Wow, JR, YOU post an article pointing out a serious shortcoming of traffic lights, then get all in a huff because someone else points out that they have other shortcomings too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
