stop being selfish (re: the US deficit)

[DougH 270]

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So in other words, you like the status quo and don't want to sacrifice anything to improve it?

Blues,
Dave

My status quo is helping to keep the doors from falling off this hoopty.

You really want me to suggest something else I can give up???

It is a moot point. Congress isn't going to get their shit together. Same thing with most of these state governments.

My state taxes just went up drastically this year due to a property tax credit getting slashed, and some tax bracket changes.

Guess where that extra money is no longer going, local businesses in my town. Now it is going to the state where it will have way less bang for the buck thanks to horrible state fiscal policy.

I would be a little more welcome to more sacrifice if I knew that my money wasn't getting squandered on wasteful shit.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[livendive 8]

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it would be more productive to look at where we would personally be willing to sacrifice rather than to point out where we think others should sacrifice.

Okay. Here's what I'd be willing to do:
(1) not request a refund of the money that I have paid into Social Security and Medicare and then just simply say, "I'll be on my own, and come retirement age I won't take a damned thing. instead I'll make sure that I either take care of myself or I don't and I won't be anyone else's responsibility."

So, there's my sacrifice. I'll decline having it available for me in the future. Which is also a benefit because I'll be able to use it to take care of myself.

In exchange, I'd like to suggest that everybody plan for a time when they will have to take care of themselves and that the government won't be there to do it. That everybody out there under the age of 50 simply say, "Nope. Not gonna be there" and work on preparing for themselves. Anyone under the age of 65 will wait until they are 70 to get Medicare or Social Security. Anyone younger that 60 will be 75. Anyone under 55 will be 80. Anyone under 50 will be 85. Under 45 will be 90. And under 40 will not have it.

This will provide a buffer and a grandfathering in. In fact, make it unavailable to anyone born Jan. 26, 1973 and later. I'll volunteer to be the FIRST person who won't have the benefits given.

There's my sacrifice. My sacrifice is that I will be forced to take care of myself. It's actually a rather interesting thing what people do when thy have no choice. The people WILL take care of themselves.

So there's my sacrifice. The vast sums I've paid into Medicare and Social Security will be forfeited. As will everybody born after me. For those born before me, they'll wait to get their money so they better prepare for it.

And the budget will be balanced all by itself within 25 years because 2/3 of government spending by 2030 will be mostly eliminated.

Yeah, I offered the same thing (and was born in 1968). If they'll quit taking it out of my check, they can keep everything they've already taken and I'll forgive the debt.

That said, I do have some trouble rationalizing this when considering those who become disabled before retirement age. That 30 year old quadriplegic...should the public provide him some minimal standard of living, or leave it up to charities?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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For starters, I'd give up the mortgage interest deduction on my second home and the deduction of my state sales tax from my taxable income. I'd gladly forego Saturday mail delivery and I be willing to drive on roads maintained half as well as they currently are.

Honestly, Dave, you're not giving up much here. Few people have second mortgages or deduct their sales tax on their return. Saturday mail doesn't affect the budget (personally I'd rather drop two week days) and you can't save half of nothing not maintaining the roads.

It was starters. I think there's something inherently more valuable in a "come take this" than a "go take that". I'd be fine with taking mail down to 4 days a week. I'd really like to see them charge a flat rate for it (no discount for bulk mailers). I was thinking half of current road spending would be better than all of current road spending.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

On your second home?

Hell, you are the rich dreamy has been posting about!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DougH 270]

OK I will play. I will start at the state level.

I will give up a large percentage of my states corrections system. It doesn't do shit for reducing crime and is designed in the favor of the corrections officers union. I suggest California do the same. They are locking people up, draining the state, for personal benefit. If I get robbed while I am away from home I will suck it up. If I get robbed while I am at home I will dig my own hole for the state.

I will give up the free vehicle and free gas card that they give CT state troopers as an incentive for supposed fast response. As a whole I don't think this a major component of our budget issue, but it is a perfect example of wasteful state spending. I would rather have the suggested longer response time, than have to continue to see state vehicles with baby seats in the back of them on Sunday at Homedepot.

What about the Federal level.

I will give up some personal income by instituting a Federal value added tax. Sure it will cost me more money, but at least we can get the bottom half contributing SOMETHING!

I will give up ethanol in my gasonline. Sure I won't have the same green feeling, but it will be balanced out by the fact that turning corn into fuel is stupid as hell.

I will give up my 99 cent menu at McDonalds by ending farm subsidies.

I am sure there is a ton of more stuff I can give up that doesn't involve raising additional revenue.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[lawrocket 3]

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That said, I do have some trouble rationalizing this when considering those who become disabled before retirement age.

I've got a disability policy that will pay me 80% of my income should I be medically unable to work. This means that I likely will be ineligible for any other public assistance benefits. But someone who did not take care of himself/herself would be.

This is exactly my problem - the DISINCENTIVE to take care of oneself. Picture, for example, the skydiver with 1,500 jumps, very current, who burst a vertebrae on landing his new Stiletto 97 (he got it and his new Talon three weeks ago and already had 30 jumps on it) who needs a fundraiser because he's uninsured.

Sure, he had in excess of $750 for his jumps this last three weeks, had the $5k needed for his new container and main, engaged in a sport where orthopedic trauma is common, and now has medical bills because he chose that stuff over insurance.

The irresponsibility gets subsidized. Yep. I'd be willing to say, "You made your choice."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[masterblaster72 0]

1. I will give up my "protection" from the "insidious effects" of marijuana. Legalize and tax it to bring in billions in revenue for the government.

2. I will give up my freedom from taxation in church. Let's tax religion.

3. I will give up social security -- the government can have my money. But from that point forward, stop taking SS money from my paycheck and let me keep it instead.

4. I will give up my right to boast about how badass my country is with its massive military reach. Let's make a significant slash military spending.

5. Like yourself, I'll give up the tax break on the second home.

That's just for starters.

Great thread -- one that encourages IDEAS, for a change. Nice one.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[gregpso 1]

s a matter of interest what tax rate do folk in the USA if they earn over $150 000 40 cent in the dollar over 80 000 or more or less

I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ??

[jclalor 12]

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s a matter of interest what tax rate do folk in the USA if they earn over $150 000 40 cent in the dollar over 80 000 or more or less

English is the national language of Australia, is it not?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Now, add on 6.25% for the insolvent Social Security system (Capped at about 101k/year) matched by the employer
Another 1.25% for Medicare/Medicaid (no cap) matched by the employer
Then add state tax on top of that (about 6.5% on average, several states have no tax, California is up to 10% for some incomes)

It's 6.2% for SS (4.2% this year), with a cap out at 106k.
It's 1.45% for MC. So that's 7.65%, or 15.3% for the self employed (though the second half is deductible, so it's a bit less).

CA's top bracket is 9.55%. but it starts pretty low, at 46k for singles. There is a bonus 1% millionaire tax bracket as well, label as "mental health tax."

[captain_stan 0]

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benefit do you currently enjoy that you'd be willing to sacrifice.

I'll sacrifice Pedro, my illegal immigrant gardener, and pay a little more to hire an American citizen.

[DougH 270]

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benefit do you currently enjoy that you'd be willing to sacrifice.

I'll sacrifice Pedro, my illegal immigrant gardener, and pay a little more to hire an American citizen.

Most American citizens don't want Pedro's job. Those that do want a lot more...

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DougH 270]

I will give up the ability to ever claim FEMA disaster assistance. Federal flood insurance is so under priced that it encourages irresponsible building and planning. If people want to live places that flood regularly and their only defense is man made levies they should bear the true economic costs of that decision. The rest of us shouldn't be subsidizing or encouraging this!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[captain_stan 0]

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***benefit do you currently enjoy that you'd be willing to sacrifice.

I'll sacrifice Pedro, my illegal immigrant gardener, and pay a little more to hire an American citizen.

Most American citizens don't want Pedro's job. Those that do want a lot more...

And most Americans aren't willing to pay more for American labor. Two sides of the same problem that's drasticly reduced our ability to generate income tax revenue to fund our government.

[DougH 270]

I agree. Although I think it is a bit of a stretch to think that a cash transaction like lawn care is going to get full reported to Uncle Sam.

The rich aren't the only tax cheats.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[captain_stan 0]

When I lay pedro off, I'm gonna hire an American, taxpaying business guy w/ several American-made tractors and a number of employees that work on the books. Yes I'll willingly pay more.

[DougH 270]

You the man Stan.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Amazon 7]

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benefit do you currently enjoy that you'd be willing to sacrifice.

I'll sacrifice Pedro, my illegal immigrant gardener, and pay a little more to hire an American citizen.

I make sure I do not hire illegals. My cleaning lady and the contractors I hire are Americans. Its a pretty simple concept really. Dont break the law for financial gain. I know that is a hard concept for so many who benefit so much by hiring them. I think if you hire illegals.. you need to go to fucking jail.

[captain_stan 0]

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I make sure I do not hire illegals. My cleaning lady and the contractors I hire are Americans. Its a pretty simple concept really. Dont break the law for financial gain. I know that is a hard concept for so many who benefit so much by hiring them. I think if you hire illegals.. you need to go to fucking jail.

Amazon agrees. Damn that makes me proud! OK, I won't let it go to my head.

[kaustik 3]

I gave up my job as an industrial tailor for the DoD. Thats about 65k additional tax payers dollars that can be used to fight terrorism by bombing civies.

The future belongs to those of us still willing to get our hands dirty.

[champu 1]

By the way, everyone in this thread who is saying they'd give up [feigned benefit owed to program/spending they dislike]...

You're not being clever. You're very clearly making Dave's point in the original post that people are approaching the budget issue in a selfish manner.

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Let's try something different for a change. Without regard to what you think others should give up, what benefit do you currently enjoy that you'd be willing to sacrifice to help balance the budget?

If you honestly think that you, personally, don't actually benefit from anything the government spends* money on or that you feel can't be eliminated/reduced to help get us towards a fiscally responsible budget then say so and defend your position.

* I put an asterisk here because, like many of you, I don't like the attitude implications of the term "tax expenditure." That said, forget what you call it and look at the math that works out the same irrespective of the name.

[champu 1]

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I agree. Although I think it is a bit of a stretch to think that a cash transaction like lawn care is going to get full reported to Uncle Sam.

The rich aren't the only tax cheats.

Some rich people cheat taxes by adding paperwork. Some not-so-rich people cheat taxes by removing all paperwork.

The rest of us use taxslayer, turbotax, h&r block, etc. and pay what we actually owe.

[Channman 2]

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I will stop being selfish, let see...

I will continue to go to the job that I earned by paying my own way through college, and by busting my ass.

I will continue to buy things with dollars that I earned to grow the economy. I will continue to file and pay my taxes, taxes on earning that I worked for.

I will continue to help educate my girlfriends children by being around, reading to them, and not fully counting on the government run public education to raise them.

I will continue to put some money away for the future, because you shouldn't expect that the government is going to support you down the road.

I also will continue to do all the above as well and the following:

Contribute time to help families facing major medical challenges by donating my time at Ronnald McDonald House.

Continue using my personnal finances to provide Angle Flights for the above.

[captain_stan 0]

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You're very clearly making Dave's point in the original post that people are approaching the budget issue in a selfish manner.

Hmm. Point finger and blame. Nasty selfish people want the government to spend thier tax dollars more effectively.

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If you honestly think that you, personally, don't actually benefit from anything the government spends* money on

I didn't hear anyone say that. Did you? Where? Reading comprehension problem?

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or that you feel can't be eliminated/reduced to help get us towards a fiscally responsible budget

Not sure what you mean by that part.

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then say so and defend your position.

Read the thread. I've heard some ideas to voluntarily pay more. Those of us who belong to the half that pay income tax would like it to be spent more responsibly--if that concept requires a better explanation, you wouldn't understand it anyway.

[Channman 2]

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It's never going to work like that.

We need to get back to a concept that PC and diversity drove us away from a long time ago: equality.

If it's going to work it needs to suck equally for all, regardless of race, creed, color, religion, etc.

Then again, you could be on to something. Rather than have the sides choose what they can/can't give up, let the other side choose for them and vice versa.

It would help if people would read the thread title. Forget everyone else, what (else) would you give up? If the answer is nothing, you are part of the problem.

I thought of another thing. I trust my adult neighbors to decide for themselves how much tobacco, drugs, alcohol, gambling, and/or prostitution is right for them, and would gladly give up the "public service" of prosecuting and imprisoning them. Further, I'd gladly submit to a 50% tax on those vices anytime I choose to partake.

Blues,
Dave

OK, I'm willing to give up on the IRS...and go with a flat tax say 15-18 percent accross the board. If you make more than a $100.00 of income you pay 15-18 dollars to the feds.

I think everyone with income of $100.00 dollars or more should make a shared sacrifice.