jgoose71 0 #1 August 20, 2011 With all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #2 August 20, 2011 No. It is an all volunteer force, and even if it weren't, still no. Other than the obvious of it being, well, a military, there are way too many factors involved. What benefits do you see of having a unionized military? Is there a reason for unionizing the military? How would pay scales be calculated if unionized? Hourly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #3 August 20, 2011 QuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation?_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #4 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation? Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions. I'm looking for more than "well, they are military...""There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #5 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation? Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions. I'm looking for more than "well, they are military..." They are hired by cities and counties. different rules and regulations for each area. I believe their total wages or retirements may be negotiable. We are hired by the Federal Govt. One single big organization under one single set of rules._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 August 20, 2011 Wouldn't work - too many incompatabilities due to chain of command and other issues.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #7 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation? Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions. I'm looking for more than "well, they are military..." They are hired by cities and counties. different rules and regulations for each area. I believe their total wages or retirements may be negotiable. We are hired by the Federal Govt. One single big organization under one single set of rules. Maybe if the military was unionized, our retirement would be better protected and we would have some ability to negotiate before it gets cut."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #8 August 20, 2011 QuoteWouldn't work - too many incompatabilities due to chain of command and other issues. You don't think these same issues don't exist in the police force? Are you saying they don't have a chain of command? You think when they go on strike, it doesn't effect public safety?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 August 20, 2011 Quote Quote Wouldn't work - too many incompatabilities due to chain of command and other issues. You don't think these same issues don't exist in the police force? Are you saying they don't have a chain of command? You think when they go on strike, it doesn't effect public safety? Dude...if you're going to keep arguing both sides of the issue all by yourself, just let us know and we'll sit back and watch...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #10 August 20, 2011 Isnt this pretty much the same as asking if the government should switch to using a privatized mercenary force?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammindave 0 #11 August 20, 2011 that idea gives me a head-ache for so many reasons! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #12 August 20, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Wouldn't work - too many incompatabilities due to chain of command and other issues. You don't think these same issues don't exist in the police force? Are you saying they don't have a chain of command? You think when they go on strike, it doesn't effect public safety? Dude...if you're going to keep arguing both sides of the issue all by yourself, just let us know and we'll sit back and watch... Entertaining, isn't it?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #13 August 20, 2011 QuoteIsnt this pretty much the same as asking if the government should switch to using a privatized mercenary force? No, Private security firms like Xe (Formerly black water) contract there forces. When the job is done, they can let them go or hire them back on for a different job. Nothing is guaranteed and they are not full time employs. This is the reason why many companies fired all of their full time employees and hired them back on as contractors. They could avoid a lot of government regulations that way. In the military, you are on duty 24/7 365. You are full time."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #14 August 20, 2011 Ban all public sector unions... There are no checks and balances in this corrupt system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lost_n_confuzd 0 #15 August 20, 2011 Would someone in a communications job be paid more than a cook? Grunt work is not as technical as avionics, but does that mean grunts should get paid less even though grunt work is "harder"? Should MP's be paid the same as their civilian counterparts -- which counterparts, Newport PD or Poedunk Sheriffs office? When Sgt Smith is the duty NCO for 24 hours, does that mean he only has to work 16 more hours this week? x1.5 pay on weekends and holidays? What happens if a large chunck of the military decidies they want 40 instead of 30 days of annual leave -- can they stop work and strike? Who would head up the union? Yeah, I know, too many questions that have no correct or reasonable answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #16 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation? Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions. I'm looking for more than "well, they are military..." They are hired by cities and counties. different rules and regulations for each area. I believe their total wages or retirements may be negotiable. We are hired by the Federal Govt. One single big organization under one single set of rules. Maybe if the military was unionized, our retirement would be better protected and we would have some ability to negotiate before it gets cut. Interesting thing about that. Our retirement is US code (title 10, sub title A, part 2). Theirs is something that is a contract. Ours is law, thiers is contracts. Either/or, it wouldn't matter. Contracts can be negotiated and laws can be changed by vote. Also, we would not be able to strike._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #17 August 20, 2011 I can see it now, on the battlefield: Commanding officer: Soldier! Go take that hill! Soldier: No. That's not in my job description. Commanding officer: You are a soldier in this man's army! Now take that hill! Soldier: I'm taking this up with the union rep. Commanding officer: I am ordering you to take that hill! Soldier: The union and I have set an arbitration hearing regarding this matter. Commanding officer: Hearing? For when? Soldier: Four weeks from Thursday. Elvisio "Name, rank, and Local number" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 August 20, 2011 Civil war, Union army won. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 August 20, 2011 Quote Civil war, Union army won. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tmarine253 0 #20 August 20, 2011 QuoteI can see it now, on the battlefield: Commanding officer: Soldier! Go take that hill! Soldier: No. That's not in my job description. Commanding officer: You are a soldier in this man's army! Now take that hill! Soldier: I'm taking this up with the union rep. Commanding officer: I am ordering you to take that hill! Soldier: The union and I have set an arbitration hearing regarding this matter. Commanding officer: Hearing? For when? Soldier: Four weeks from Thursday. Elvisio "Name, rank, and Local number" Rodriguez As a Marine Officer, I can say that this is exactly what would happen if we had unions and this is exactly why the military will never and shouldn't have unions. The whole concept of I will do what I am told when I get what I want, wont ever work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #21 August 20, 2011 Signing up for the military involves signing away a number of rights and agreeing to follow orders from the chain of command. As someone already asked, what do you think involving the unions could gain for anyone?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #22 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWith all the crap in the news about unions I thought this was a fair question. Especially since if congress doesn't agree on cuts, most of the cuts are going to be coming from military pay and benefits. Some people will say "no" but think that police and fire fighters, who also protect and serve, should be allowed to unionize and have collective bargaining rights. If this is your position please explain. Should anyone who works for the government who puts their life and health on the line be allowed to unionize? No. The Military has many people in DC and elsewhere who represent military issues already. With the VA, the VFW's, DAV's, ect. ect. who needs representation? Which goes back to my original point, why do the Police or firefighters need a union? There are a lot of retired people in other public sector jobs that "need" unions. I'm looking for more than "well, they are military..." They are hired by cities and counties. different rules and regulations for each area. I believe their total wages or retirements may be negotiable. We are hired by the Federal Govt. One single big organization under one single set of rules. Maybe if the military was unionized, our retirement would be better protected and we would have some ability to negotiate before it gets cut. Interesting thing about that. Our retirement is US code (title 10, sub title A, part 2). Theirs is something that is a contract. Ours is law, thiers is contracts. Either/or, it wouldn't matter. Contracts can be negotiated and laws can be changed by vote. Also, we would not be able to strike. When people enlist, they sign a contract. Don't you think they should have some say before someone comes in and just decides to change the terms of that deal?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #23 August 20, 2011 QuoteQuoteI can see it now, on the battlefield: Commanding officer: Soldier! Go take that hill! Soldier: No. That's not in my job description. Commanding officer: You are a soldier in this man's army! Now take that hill! Soldier: I'm taking this up with the union rep. Commanding officer: I am ordering you to take that hill! Soldier: The union and I have set an arbitration hearing regarding this matter. Commanding officer: Hearing? For when? Soldier: Four weeks from Thursday. Elvisio "Name, rank, and Local number" Rodriguez As a Marine Officer, I can say that this is exactly what would happen if we had unions and this is exactly why the military will never and shouldn't have unions. The whole concept of I will do what I am told when I get what I want, wont ever work. As I have stated earlier, you don't think that they don't have similar issues in the police department or fire department? "Officer, arrest that armed criminal." "Not until I get a raise." "Officer, break up that riot and protect the innocent." "Not until I get that raise" "Rescue that child from the burning building" "Not until I get my raise." Everyone says it's a bad idea, yet other public servants with just as much responsibility to protect life and limb are unionized. Why?"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #24 August 20, 2011 Well, that would be ONE way to guarantee that there would never be another war. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #25 August 20, 2011 Hell NO!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
